The Ultimate JRPG Poll

[RCXGaming]

Your not allowed to like ff series, got characters like “cloud strife and squall Leonhart” in it.. haha

Bait?

Anyway, I've never been interested in Dragon Quest. Barring one moment that I never personally experienced and some broad ideas, they are far enough from the type of RPG I like to the point you'll never catch me playing them.

I don't have a vendetta against them, but they just kind of ... exist.

Final Fantasy on the other hand gave me the Tactics games and I can't imagine my life without them.

 

[Iron_Brew]

Also, since Akira Toriyama does the artwork for the games, it just feels like every game isn't a new world because his art style is so bland.

Lol what, in what world is Akira Toriyama's art bland?



It absolutely oozes soul from every pore! Instantly identifiable, and way more unique than the plethora of dreadful Tales of Genshin Heroes of the Sky Megami Tensei anime art that you see in most games.

Honestly, I don't think there is anything to love about Dragon Quest. There is just nothing there. It's like asking an AI or an alien to make a jrpg. Every game is paint by numbers jrpg. But I get that's why people do like it. They want that plain, safe, jrpg that takes no risks, has bland characters and story and simple combat. It's comfortable to them.

For me though, they are bottom tier.

Yes, and then they made every game for the next 30 years the exact same game. At least final fantasy does something new with every new game, while keeping aspects of it still final fantasy (enemies, weapon names, etc.) A lot of what they invented was a product of the limitations at the time. And rather innovate with the increasing power of the technology they were using, they just stuck to the same boring formula.

This is a baffling take. They invented the wheel - the early games had no template, seeking to simplify and emulate Western CRPGs and the later games innovate time and time and time again. They don't look different, but if you're judging them as skin-deep then I think you might have missed the point of what makes DQ good?

Look at 3 vs 4 vs 5 vs 7 vs 8 vs 9 vs 10 vs 11

3: Create your party and save the world - the culmination of 1 and 2's gameplay mechanics from the literal invention of the genre to the implementation of a party with unique skills - the first truly good JRPG
4: Chapter based - introduces static characters with set storylines who all come together at the half way point to adventure together. This was a true innovation for the time; and demonstrated the importance of unique characters in your RPGs. Also, the cast of this is so popular that there are multiple spinoff games for Torneko the merchant (I am still so confused when you say the characters in this series are bland).
5: Game takes place over 30 years, with multiple significant branching narratives - introduces monster catching, and marriage, with a story ranging from your childhood to having kids of your own. Basically spawned DQ monsters - and you wouldn't have pokémon without what 5 did.
7: Puzzle-focused mainline entry feat. time travel and reconstructing the world - meet characters from across time and form a party to solve the mystery of why the world was destroyed in the first place
8: A return to the classic DQ style in full 3d following the puzzle-focused DQ7. A globe trotting adventure full of loveable charcters and phenomenal writing, and one of the best RPGs on PS2, especially among a sea of boring FF knockoffs
9: Co-op! This was HUGE back when it first came out - it's one of the most visually impressive games on the system and takes DQ gameplay and makes it multiplayer. This was a massive deal! And the writing remained absolutely stellar.
10: A literal MMO. Adapts DQ for the online audience - no Western release (which blows) - but apparently it's ok when FF does it twice, but when DQ does it that's "the same boring formula"
11: The perfect traditional RPG. Takes the innovations from every game and combines them into a game which has all the bells and whistles of modern RPGs and puts them alongside timeless art into a cosy setting. The culmination of everything which has come before iterated to near perfection. A fantastic ensemble cast, beautiful visuals, incredible music (once S came out) and a love letter not just to the series but to the genre as a whole.

---

I dunno man, I feel like if you're missing what makes these games different and special this might be a you-problem, because the games are factually very different from one another. The combat may be simple, but complex != good and simple != bad. The games have an unparalleled sense of soul and without DQ's pioneering influence we wouldn't have any of the games that took their formula and said "what if we did X with it":

Party systems, customisable classes, turn based combat, job systems, monster training, romance options, multiple distinct party members with their own stories. You can't write off these games, because without them walking no-one else'd be running, and in a lot of cases they've simply not been outdone by anything that's come since.

 

[Tai_MT]

@Iron_Brew

I didn't know Goku was in Dragon Quest! Hey, look! Master Roshi and Bulma are on the right there! The Devil Wrestler/Fighter guy is on the left! Hey, is that girl with the winged helmt Goku's wife? Yeah, I forgot her name, sue me.

Is that Krillin with his face partially obscured by the main character on the left there? Looks like him...

I'm sorry, I had to poke fun.

I get where the poster is coming from about the art style being "Bland". Since every single box art literally screams, "I traced this over pictures from Dragon Ball Z" or "Dragon Ball", and then they just changed like hair colors.

Even Dragon Quest 1 has "child Goku wearing medieval armor" on the box. Dragon Quest 4 has "Green haired Vegeta on the cover.



Or... is he a little like Goku, too? He could be Goku... Maybe...


Hey, doesn't this guy look like Goku's kid? Gohan? Or... maybe a little like Trunks? Also, isn't that menacing guy in the background just a blue version of that red guy who hung out with Vegeta and said the "over 9000" thing to him?


Hey, look! It's Chi-Chi with a different hairstyle! And that blue haired guy is DEFINITELY Trunks. I can't make out sword dude very well back there, so I can't compare.
---
We could honestly go on and on, really.

You could make a drinking game out of "recognize the DBZ Character" on the box art of these games. You'd probably die of alcohol poisoning like 6 games in, too.

I would love to be the guy who gets to draw the same 30 characters for the rest of his life and get paid for it while telling his bosses "it's all original content". Dude figured out how to do as little work as possible and get paid as much as possible for it. I envy that.

 

[Iron_Brew]

@Iron_Brew

I didn't know Goku was in Dragon Quest! Hey, look! Master Roshi and Bulma are on the right there! The Devil Wrestler/Fighter guy is on the left! Hey, is that girl with the winged helmt Goku's wife? Yeah, I forgot her name, sue me.

I mean, he has a distinct style - but it's definitely not bland or generic! Like I'd rather look at:
than:


I'd argue the second is bland, but people look at all the waifus and are thriled by all the homogeny. Internal consistency isn't the same as blandness - I'd wager most people couldn't identify the second image there's game.

Meanwhile:



No mistaking this fella!

TL;DR:


This is now a Yangus Superiority Thread.

 

[padr81]

I mean, he has a distinct style - but it's definitely not bland or generic! Like I'd rather look at: View attachment 264742
than:
View attachment 264743

I'd argue the second is bland, but people look at all the waifus and are thriled by all the homogeny. Internal consistency isn't the same as blandness - I'd wager most people couldn't identify the second image there's game.

Meanwhile:

View attachment 264744

No mistaking this fella!

TL;DR:

View attachment 264745
This is now a Yangus Superiority Thread.

Is that 2nd image in the "than" slot an rm game cause it looks like it.

 

[Ms Littlefish]

Art style is such a subjective thing. I really like a ton Toriyama's more goobery lookin' dudes and his style overall has a ton of individuality that makes it so recognizable...but a lot of the characters definitely suffer from the copy + paste face pretty often. So, certainly not without faults.

 

[Iron_Brew]

Is that 2nd image in the "than" slot an rm game cause it looks like it.

Nope! That is a professionally produced video game whose artstyle is so generic that it defies identification.

Art style is such a subjective thing. I really like a ton Toriyama's more goobery lookin' dudes and his style overall has a ton of individuality that makes it so recognizable...but a lot of the characters definitely suffer from the copy + paste face pretty often. So, certainly not without faults.

Yeah, some of his designs, especially his "heroic main guy" can often fall into OOPS ALL GOKUS! territoriy, but I really think DQ's supporting cast and parties have such variety and flavour that when people call them bland I can't help but be baffled:



Like yes, there's a consistency of style, but the flavour and individuality and lack of anyone else doing anything that looks identical is really something to be cherished in a world where most JRPGs look homogenous and like they were churned out by committee:



Like, yeah, the art is good, but where's the soul? Where's the single vision? Who are these people?

I dunno, maybe it's just me but I can tell who Toriyama's characters are meant to be from the design and from the art, whereas the above examples I couldn't tell you anything about without having played the game.

 

[Sword_of_Dusk]

@Iron_Brew How did I not know you were a fellow DQ fan before now?

And have you heard that a new Monsters game is apparently being developed for Switch?

 

[BubblegumPatty]

It absolutely oozes soul from every pore! Instantly identifiable, and way more unique than the plethora of dreadful Tales of Genshin Heroes of the Sky Megami Tensei anime art that you see in most games.

Hey now Don't drag SMT into this, it had very unique style until Kaneko stepped down!

But I agree that Toriyama's art is far from bland, even if it isn't my cup of tea and he suffers from Same-Face syndrome a lot of anime artists got, but that doesn't change his style is very distinctive and stands out very easily. His technical skill and detailing is great.

 

[Tai_MT]

Nope! That is a professionally produced video game whose artstyle is so generic that it defies identification.

Yeah, some of his designs, especially his "heroic main guy" can often fall into OOPS ALL GOKUS! territoriy, but I really think DQ's supporting cast and parties have such variety and flavour that when people call them bland I can't help but be baffled:

View attachment 264753View attachment 264754View attachment 264755View attachment 264756

Like yes, there's a consistency of style, but the flavour and individuality and lack of anyone else doing anything that looks identical is really something to be cherished in a world where most JRPGs look homogenous and like they were churned out by committee:

View attachment 264757View attachment 264758View attachment 264759View attachment 264760

Like, yeah, the art is good, but where's the soul? Where's the single vision? Who are these people?

I dunno, maybe it's just me but I can tell who Toriyama's characters are meant to be from the design and from the art, whereas the above examples I couldn't tell you anything about without having played the game.

For me, the "bland" is less in the art style and more in the story/characters, but that's just what I care about. I could care less that it's "oops, all Goku's!", but I do understand the sentiment of something "feeling bland" because it's literally just Goku Version 8 once you delve deep enough.

Final Fantasy even has the issue of "This is just really bland", but it tends to change from "game to game", so you have games where the designs are outstanding and unique... and designs where you'd be hard pressed to even identify they were from a Final Fantasy game.

The problem you're likely having with Final Fantasy is that none of its characters are really ever designed from the standpoint of "what I look like and what I wear is my identity". There are characters and maybe a couple games where that applies (where they look EXACTLY like who and what they are), but it's just often not how those games want to communicate who the characters are to the players.

Now, you have Final Fantasy 15 up there. I can tell you who everyone is, but if you're just looking for "what the clothing tells you about them", then the answer is, "they look like a bunch of punks or bikers or something on a road trip", which is... sort of the premise of the game (it's not, which is why I didn't really like that game as much as I could have).

As for the one from FF14... yeah, you aren't going to know who any of those people are without playing. Their outfits exist purely to signify their "jobs", and without the context of how those jobs "tend to dress" in that game world, you're at a loss. You, likewise, aren't really going to know what their personalities are, because all of that is in the game (and requires you experience the story).

But, I mean, if you asked me about Dragon Quest... I don't know the personalities of anyone in the pictures I showed off either. I mean, I could go with "basic tropes" based on swords they're using or expressions on their faces, but... Is that really who they are? If so... then I'm not even sure I need to play the game for the story or the chracters since they're living tropes and I know how the whole thing will play out from the moment I press "start".

You can't really "judge the characters by what they look like" in most instances. Or, at least, that's what I tend to find.

Like, here's something fun you wouldn't know.

The guy in the FF14 picture? In the center there? Wearing the plate armor?

He's not a character. He's not.

He's a representation of the players. He's the "avatar" that is only used for things like Trailers and such. He's the "stand in" for who your character is. Who the player is. He is "generic", because you're meant to insert yourself in his shoes. But, that's not something you would ever know unless you had actually played the game and gone along on the adventure.

That can be the issue with most Final Fantasy games. If you're looking to find out "who is this character?" you have to commit to actually playing the game in most cases. What they look like isn't really an indication of who they are, what they care about, or even how they'll act. Which, inevitably, tends to make the characters from each new game feel "fresh" and "unique", even when they aren't (the demure girlfriend white mage is hyper overdone in Final Fantasy, which is why I love that they broke it in FF14 and turned her into a crap white mage who got the tank killed, whom she was in love with, despite him and the entire party hating her, and she eventually turns into a necromancer to try to REVIVE the tank she got killed, and she turns evil and sadistic... and hyper clingy and obsessive... and once she gets that way, THEN the rest of the party agree with her and allow themselves to be killed and turned into zombies/demons... and then when you beat her... you can't even be sure she IS dead, because her soul like... haunts you at points in some cutscenes).

 

[Iron_Brew]

Like, here's something fun you wouldn't know.

The guy in the FF14 picture? In the center there? Wearing the plate armor?

He's not a character. He's not.

Lol, I know - I played like /playtime 30d of FFXIV, I know that's the WoL and the point of him is to be generic but my point is that the art is bland and uninteresting, and the other Scions are like generic anime guy slash girl.

Like, I get that they switch up the aesthetic between games, but it's always just "APPEALING CHARACTER DESIGN". No FF game in 20 years has had anything even remotely approaching how interesting (and more importantly FUN) as anything like Sylvando from DQXI.

You see this all the time in RM games. People get cool anime character designs to be appealing rather than creating something that is fun and unique. No hate, obviously, but it's what knackers me when I see these casts full of SHIEBALAGH THE HYDROMANCER and they're just:



Like woah, is her hair blue because she does WATER MAGIC? Woah!!

@Iron_Brew How did I not know you were a fellow DQ fan before now?

And have you heard that a new Monsters game is apparently being developed for Switch?

I'm pretty hype! That new grass monster looks great, when I saw sandland at the summer game fest I was like IS THIS I- oh, nah it's just sandland. Still p hype though!

 

[Danatoth]

Ppl really be getting excited in here to see which outfit Goku is going to wear in Dragon Quest XII

 

[Draemorin]

FF4 introduced me to the JRPG genre as a whole so I am very attached. While I give credit to DQ for what it is, I just am more invested in FF narratives, when it comes down to it.

 

[Ahuramazda]

I am a person who whole heartedly love most of both the Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy series... played nearly all of every game from both, and beaten them all except for maybe 1-2 games in each.

They each have their own unique take on things and while FF tries to change up thinks in nearly every iteration since X, I prefer the X and below gameplay over the move to more action-based playstyles.

Yes, Dragon Quest uses the same general combat in each game, but they do add in and try new mechanics that fit in with the current games story/world. Sometimes it works, others it doesn't. Does it make it a bad or boring game? Never.



Now, if you want to talk about a series of RPGs that I have recently gotten into, Y's.
These are some actual f***ing amazing games if there ever were some.
I took a chance when Y's VIII came out on the Switch and as soon as I was off the tutorial section literally 10 minutes into the game I feel in love.
The music in all these games is amazing and upbeat to keep the pacing rolling.
The combat is some of the faster/fastest action-style games I've played.
The stories, while sometimes being generic, are very well written and the cast in each game is unique (besides Adol -the Main Character- and Dogi, but that is mainly because they are in every game at this point really)

Dont get me wrong, I love my FF and DQ, but I think if you want a true RPG game that feels like it kept is formula from the old SNES days til now with some changes... Y's is the way to go.



That is my 2 cents... bash away or agree people

 

[Iron_Brew]

I am a person who whole heartedly love most of both the Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy series... played nearly all of every game from both, and beaten them all except for maybe 1-2 games in each.

They each have their own unique take on things and while FF tries to change up thinks in nearly every iteration since X, I prefer the X and below gameplay over the move to more action-based playstyles.

Yes, Dragon Quest uses the same general combat in each game, but they do add in and try new mechanics that fit in with the current games story/world. Sometimes it works, others it doesn't. Does it make it a bad or boring game? Never.



Now, if you want to talk about a series of RPGs that I have recently gotten into, Y's.
These are some actual f***ing amazing games if there ever were some.
I took a chance when Y's VIII came out on the Switch and as soon as I was off the tutorial section literally 10 minutes into the game I feel in love.
The music in all these games is amazing and upbeat to keep the pacing rolling.
The combat is some of the faster/fastest action-style games I've played.
The stories, while sometimes being generic, are very well written and the cast in each game is unique (besides Adol -the Main Character- and Dogi, but that is mainly because they are in every game at this point really)

Dont get me wrong, I love my FF and DQ, but I think if you want a true RPG game that feels like it kept is formula from the old SNES days til now with some changes... Y's is the way to go.



That is my 2 cents... bash away or agree people

Ys fans are absolute chads and I am always pleased to encounter them!

 

[Seacliff]

While a lot of people probably voted for Final Fantasy for some of its amazing iconic titles that shaped the brand, I just wanted to say that Dragon Quest V is massively overlooked outside of Japan.

 

[Iron_Brew]

Ppl really be getting excited in here to see which outfit Goku is going to wear in Dragon Quest XII

Can you pick the Goku out of the lineup?

Because none of them are Gokus. The great irony of course being that people are all perfectly willing to deal with a Goku when it's:

 

[CleanWater]

View attachment 264796
Can you pick the Goku out of the lineup?

Because none of them are Gokus. The great irony of course being that people are all perfectly willing to deal with a Goku when it's:

View attachment 264797

I remember some people (really back in my teenhood days) speculating that Chrono actually was the SS7 transformation in a new DB saga.

This is just Toriyama iconic style. That's why so many persons love it.

 

[Tai_MT]

@Iron_Brew

I mean... Chrono Trigger literally has:

Goku
Bulma
Chi-Chi
and...
Piccolo as main characters.

And the main villain, Lavos, in the true ending is...

Cell.

Doesn't stop the story or gameplay of Chrono Trigger from being great. But, it does make the main characters feel... weird, ha ha.

And no, I have no idea who Ayla or Frog are meant to be from Dragon Ball Z... But, I suspect they are some other DBZ characters parading as new characters.

Look, Chrono even has like a "Super Saiyan" moment where he casts Luminaire and it literally looks like he is turning Super, ha ha.

Anyway...

For me, it's just a difference in "aesthetics". Graphics aren't typically why I will or won't play a game (aside from the original FF7 which has beautiful matte paintings... walked upon by low poly characters that look like literal garbage).

For me, pretty much all "anime-esque" characters are all "par for the course" and blur together. Even those in DBZ, which look a lot like those from like 40 other anime release around the same time... or like the 4 a year that are released these days as a "retro throwback art style" thing. So, I don't really see any of them as "distinct" or "unique" or anything.

But, it is what it is.

Final Fantasy has just connected with me better as a person. Like... able to make me feel things, and care about characters, and the story, and in the case of FF14, actually make me cry multiple times. DQ has just never done anything to make me connect like that. Granted, I've only played like 1, 2, 3, and I think 9? I did like Builders and the Dragon Warrior Monsters series, but none of that stuff ever connected with me on an emotional or personal level, so it's just "meh" for me.

I have visceral memories in Final Fantasy games. Things that immediately come to mind where I resonated with the game, it's message, its characters, or some emotional scene.

Heck, the most outright beautiful thing I've seen in a game came out of Final Fantasy 14 and it was just the line of, "We must continue on. For those we lost. For those we might yet save.". It just hit right and has stuck with me since.

Or, maybe, when a character in FF14 asked me a question, and I so desperately desired to give my answer. "Tell me true, was your journey good?". And I wanted to badly to tell that character it wasn't my journey, but OUR journey together.

Many games in the series have planted such memories and desires in me. Dragon Quest just... hasn't. So, I prefer the game lines that make me feel things. That connect with me on a deeply personal level. Games that make me treat them as more than games. Ones that make me forget that... these are characters on a screen.

That's what I value in an RPG. Being able to forget that it's a game. That these people aren't real.

 

[Iron_Brew]

@Iron_Brew

I mean... Chrono Trigger literally has:

Goku
Bulma
Chi-Chi
and...
Piccolo as main characters.

And the main villain, Lavos, in the true ending is...

Cell.

Doesn't stop the story or gameplay of Chrono Trigger from being great. But, it does make the main characters feel... weird, ha ha.

Yes, that was my point

Final Fantasy has just connected with me better as a person. Like... able to make me feel things, and care about characters, and the story, and in the case of FF14, actually make me cry multiple times. DQ has just never done anything to make me connect like that. Granted, I've only played like 1, 2, 3, and I think 9? I did like Builders and the Dragon Warrior Monsters series, but none of that stuff ever connected with me on an emotional or personal level, so it's just "meh" for me.

I'd really recommend playing them! 1-3 are prototypical and 9 is relatively atypical. 11 is just as good of an RPG as anything you'll ever play, and it doesn't rely on melodrama to hit home. It's just stunning from start to end, and if you like RPGs I think you owe it yourself to try it out!

I have visceral memories in Final Fantasy games. Things that immediately come to mind where I resonated with the game, it's message, its characters, or some emotional scene.

Heck, the most outright beautiful thing I've seen in a game came out of Final Fantasy 14 and it was just the line of, "We must continue on. For those we lost. For those we might yet save.". It just hit right and has stuck with me since.

Or, maybe, when a character in FF14 asked me a question, and I so desperately desired to give my answer. "Tell me true, was your journey good?". And I wanted to badly to tell that character it wasn't my journey, but OUR journey together.

Many games in the series have planted such memories and desires in me. Dragon Quest just... hasn't. So, I prefer the game lines that make me feel things. That connect with me on a deeply personal level. Games that make me treat them as more than games. Ones that make me forget that... these are characters on a screen.

That's what I value in an RPG. Being able to forget that it's a game. That these people aren't real.

I get it man, I love FF - I really do. 7 and 9 (especially 9) are incredibly special to me, and 10 I think has the best combat of any RPG, but if you've only played DQ1-3 and 9 I really would recommend you try one of the games like 11, or 5.

Also, XIV - as much as I loved it - really lost me when they started focusing on melodrama and stopped writing people as people. I really enjoyed Emet Selch, but I had to unsub half way through Endwalker because I just couldn't stick with it any more.

I promise you, if you try out DQXI you'll have an incredible time. It's the perfect ingress point in a series which only gets better as it progresses (except VI, which is kind of a drag).