The Vatican and Vampires background questions

[watermark]

I understand we are not to "1.5 discuss religion outside the scope of game development."  Well, I am asking these questions purely for background, world building research purposes. I assume this is not against the rules (well if it is a moderator can delete this thread I guess.).

Anyways, I am thinking of doing a vampire game and since I am not Catholic or Christian, I was hoping someone can enlighten me on a few background questions regarding Roman Catholicism:

1. If the Vatican were to form a task force for combating vampires, werewolves, and other supernatural beings, a “Vatican Strike Team” if you will, what would it be called? I assume it would be in Latin? Can anybody give me any naming ideas?

2. Assuming the Pope gave authority for someone to head this secret task force, what rank would this person be? I gathered from Wikipedia that this would probably be a Cardinal? Would this person rank higher than a local [SIZE=10.5pt]sui iuris[/SIZE] [SIZE=10.5pt]church[/SIZE] patriarch? Or are they on the same level and have no authority to command each other? I understand the US is headed by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops answerable to the Holy See. Does that mean bishops must answer to a Cardinal’s commands? Or is it more like the UN, where the Cardinal can strongly recommend but not command?

3. I read that the Catholic church is divided into parishes. So would a Catholic character say, “I need to go to my church on Sunday.” Or “I need to go to my parish on Sunday.”?

4. I gather that priests and nuns cannot marry, but I read that married men can become a priest (this is somewhat confusing). Anyway, if a priest or nun were to have a relationship, would that automatically ban him/her from the clergy if found out? That s/he would have to be “laicized”? A laicized person means that this person can no longer be part of the clergy forever right? I ask this to determine how to set any character romantic relationships.

5. I know back then witches were basically burned. But in modern day, say someone was caught practicing wicca (and was part of a parish), what would the church do? Would they throw her out of the church or just heavily reprimand her and coach her to give it up?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

3) You go to the church, not the parish. Since normally you're on the parish already (your home is part of the parish, at least in a fully catholic place, this would be the case). You only go to a parish if ur on a place that isn't part of any parish, but still you go to the church.


4) That I assume would be a very critical topic


5) IDK, didn't encounter any modern day inquisition... Though probably it would cause excommunication.

 

[Warpmind]

1. Presumably, it would be some variant on "Order" - or in Latin, "Ordo". Examples from history would be Ordo Dracul, the Order of the Dragon (which could be considered a delicious irony, of sorts.)

2. Yes, a Cardinal would be the likely head of such an Order - highest rank under the Pope kind of thing.

4. Married men, as a general rule (exceptions have been applied to converts to Catholicism), may not become ordained. Ordained men are simply not allowed to marry. Presumably, while priests aren't supposed to have romantic relationships (which, semantically, are quite distinct from sexual relations - celibacy vs. abstinence), I imagine such matters are more common than the Catholic Church probably admits... and quite likely turn a blind eye so long as the involved parties are careful and secretive about it, and nobody complains. Defrocking is a harsh punishment, usually reserved for severe infractions, and marrying in another faith would probably qualify (since, as mentioned, Catholic priests are simply not permitted to marry.)

5. Actually, witches were never traditionally burned; they were hanged. Also, keep in mind there have been more than one Inquisition (the Roman Inquisition and the Spanish Inquisition were two VERY different organizations, with different goals), and most witch hunts were not done in Catholic areas. The Inquisition of today - The Office for Defense of the Faith, I believe it's called - primarily investigates potential sainthoods and the like, playing the Devil's Advocate (No, really, that's the actual official name for the function); today... As for someone practicing Wicca, I sincerely do not think they'd have set foot in a Catholic church for some time before THAT happened - though I expect meddling family members and such would try to arrange a confrontation.

P.S. No, I'm not Catholic, myself, but I've read up on quite a few related subjects. Do not take my assessments here as gospel truth.

 

[Kes]

I am fairly certain that it would not be called an Order of anything.  Vatican departments are called either Pontifical Commissions or Congregations, and are part of the overall organisation called The Curia.  There are also things called dicasteries, but I haven't a clue what they are.

 

[slimmmeiske2]

4. Only protestant priests can marry, not catholics. But as Warpmind says, there have been/are a lot of sexual active priests/bishops/cardinals/popes.

 

[whitesphere]

If you wanted to make it easier for research purposes, you could do something like this:

Over a thousand years ago, a minor Priest Y of the Catholic Church uncovered secret evidence of vampires.  Intense debate surged behind closed doors, until finally Priest Y split off and formed his own branch of the Church, dedicated to defeating these foul creatures.

Or, perhaps, the Catholic Church treats their vampire fighting "division" differently, sort of an unofficial, official offshoot.

Those are 2 in-universe justifications for why the vampire fighting offshoot has inaccuracies compared to the traditional Catholic Church.  And they give you a lot more leeway with the story.

 

[Juunanagou]

1. If the Vatican were to form a task force for combating vampires, werewolves, and other supernatural beings, a “Vatican Strike Team” if you will, what would it be called? I assume it would be in Latin? Can anybody give me any naming ideas?

Ordinem Lamia Eversores, quite literally order of the destroyer of vampires. Lamia is vampire even if in tradition they are more the half snake half woman monster. Google helps a lot XD, but not take it too literally, try to arrange some words, you know how is google sometimes. I translated it from italian and gave me Lamia Ordinem Eversores, so I rearranged it a bit. But you may leave Ordinem and use just Lamia Eversores, sounds better in my opinion.

2. Assuming the Pope gave authority for someone to head this secret task force, what rank would this person be? I gathered from Wikipedia that this would probably be a Cardinal? Would this person rank higher than a local [SIZE=10.5pt]sui iuris[/SIZE] [SIZE=10.5pt]church[/SIZE] patriarch? Or are they on the same level and have no authority to command each other? I understand the US is headed by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops answerable to the Holy See. Does that mean bishops must answer to a Cardinal’s commands? Or is it more like the UN, where the Cardinal can strongly recommend but not command?

Well I suppose cardinals are quite good, but I think that the Pope would probably have something similar to templar to sly vampires and werewolfes. I'd put or a Templar or a Cardinal or an Episcopus in charge of such "order". Consider that usually templars were nobles or something. Try to take inspiration from Dragon quest VIII, it should be useful

4. I gather that priests and nuns cannot marry, but I read that married men can become a priest (this is somewhat confusing). Anyway, if a priest or nun were to have a relationship, would that automatically ban him/her from the clergy if found out? That s/he would have to be “laicized”? A laicized person means that this person can no longer be part of the clergy forever right? I ask this to determine how to set any character romantic relationships.

Married people can't be priest or nun. I suppose that widowed people could take vows, not divorced ones. Divorce is forbidden. You don't have to be a virgin, you have to mantain chastity after. If you want to have a relationship you have to give up to your vows. There are some ex-priest that had married after find love. But they can't be priests.

5. I know back then witches were basically burned. But in modern day, say someone was caught practicing wicca (and was part of a parish), what would the church do? Would they throw her out of the church or just heavily reprimand her and coach her to give it up?

I think it's quite illegal burn people down XD Now I think they talk to the person involved with wicca to make her give up, but they usually don't throw out none from churches anymore. They tend to talk to you to make you follow the "right path".

 

[Sausage_Boi]

In the developed world, it is QUITE uncommon to be burning witches...In the undeveloped world...well, there are plenty of videos online if you're feeling morbid. They do still burn "witches", especially in areas of Africa where...um... Western religions send their missionaries to preach peace and love. It's pretty obscene. 
Also, the Vatican DOES have a group of priests trained to battle supernatural entities, and they have been growing in numbers in recent years. They are called "Exorcists". 

 

[Oddball]

4. Only protestant priests can marry, not catholics.

what is so funny about this is that somewhere in the new testimant, it says that preists can marry

I saw a speacil on PBS i think, about the vatican and sex scandal and stuff. It said that out of all the Christan denominations, that there are the most sexually deviant and homosexual priests in the Catholic religon (not saying that homosexuals are bad people, just to be clear) anyway, one would assume from that that disallowing people to marry/have sex causes problems

 

[Archeia]

Van Helsing and Ao no Exorcist (partly) has this kind of themes. Maybe look it up for research purposes?

 

[Sausage_Boi]

I am not going to quote the bible directly, but Oddball, you are correct. There is a verse that states that if you are to serve God, you need also take a wife. There is archaeological, and scholarly evidence that suggests the ancient, ANCIENT Yahweh had a wife, Asherah. The priests of the catholic church at one time WERE allowed to marry, but from what I understand, the heirs of the priest were taking the worldly goods of their fathers when they died, and so the church couldn't claim their land or wealth because it was inherited. And there were a number of illegitimate children who were bleeding the coffers as well, so the church basically made the act of intercourse an evil deed. 

Spoiler

I am not religious, I am just HUGELY interested in Religion\Mythology

 

[Oddball]

I am not going to quote the bible directly, but Oddball, you are correct. There is a verse that states that if you are to serve God, you need also take a wife. There is archaeological, and scholarly evidence that suggests the ancient, ANCIENT Yahweh had a wife, Asherah. The priests of the catholic church at one time WERE allowed to marry, but from what I understand, the heirs of the priest were taking the worldly goods of their fathers when they died, and so the church couldn't claim their land or wealth because it was inherited. And there were a number of illegitimate children who were bleeding the coffers as well, so the church basically made the act of intercourse an evil deed. 

Spoiler

I am not religious, I am just HUGELY interested in Religion\Mythology

...But wern't the isrealites in the old testament banned from worshiping ashera poles?

 

[Sausage_Boi]

I don't know at what point that was, but yes. They were. That is why Genesis is so weird, when God is speaking "Let us make Man in OUR image, in OUR likeness." The bible is Old books and new all strung together haphazardly in a fashion that sort of makes a narrative. But with so many missing, and perhaps many more unknown, and untold numbers of tablets and/or scrolls that have been destroyed, we can't really be sure what is really the original. 

 

[whitesphere]

I don't know at what point that was, but yes. They were. That is why Genesis is so weird, when God is speaking "Let us make Man in OUR image, in OUR likeness." The bible is Old books and new all strung together haphazardly in a fashion that sort of makes a narrative. But with so many missing, and perhaps many more unknown, and untold numbers of tablets and/or scrolls that have been destroyed, we can't really be sure what is really the original. 

Also, from what I heard, the Old Testament came down from an oral tradition, long before it was transcribed into Hebrew.  Said text was then transcribed into Latin at a much later date.  So I think it's possible information was lost or changed because, well, translating between three languages (I don't think the oral tradition was Hebrew but I'm not a historian) centuries apart would cause changes in the meaning.    And I don't know if there were phrases used which had colloquial or slang meanings even when they were written down --- meanings which we've lost.

I mean even if we look at Shakespeare's works, which are in "modern" English, we can easily make mistakes in understanding what he meant because I'm sure the plays used phrases and slang whose meaning we've lost.  And that's "only" 400 years ago, in the same basic language.

 

[Sausage_Boi]

I could be entirely wrong, but I think it went Oral>Talmud>Greek>Syriac>Latin>English.

And yes, a lot does get lost in translation, either through lost word meanings, or through untranslatable phrases, especially through so many different cultures with different life experiences.

As for the Catholic church, you could incorporate the myth of Rennes-le-Château. Maybe Bérenger Saunière discovered the presence of Vampires and other supernatural beasts haunting his Parish, and was clearing out the vampires, and taking their fortunes, using them to assemble and train a fighting force against the creatures of darkness. 

 

[OM3GA-Z3RO]

I suggest you watch Hellsing Ultimate, this could give you some insight ideas of what you are going through, because what I have read so far makes me lean towards Hellsing Ultimate.

 

[watermark]

@Engr. Adiktuzmiko

Ah. So the Parish is more like an area then right? As in, your whole town would be part of a parish. You would still belong to a church, which is part of a parish, right? I see.

@ Warpmind

The Office for Defense of the Faith? Wow something like that exists? That is interesting. I shall go look it up.

@whitesphere

That’s a good idea. And you’re right, the “Catholic Church” in my fictional universe will of course be very different from the real one, mainly the real Catholic Church doesn't have a vampire fighting division (not that I know of anyway...hmm...). But I think the story would be better if the background was “accurate” in many matters. As they say, sometimes the truth is more interesting than fiction.

@philteredkhaos

I thought exorcists only existed in movies! Well, isn’t that something. Thanks for reminding me. Yes, the order could be some division of exorcists… Also, I have never read the Rennes-le-Chateau, I shall look into it.

@Archeia @omg3ga-z3ro 

I don't think I've seen Ao no Exorcist. I think I watched the original Hellsing a long time ago. Is that the anime where Dracula is like a cop? And he had partner who was…uh…well endowed. It’s been such a long time I forgot the details. It is interesting how the Japanese and Westerners portray vampires: sometimes similar, sometimes very different. Ah, but you guys reminded me of an anime that did have a fictional church fighting supernaturals: D. Gray Man.

Regarding the romance thing:

I was thinking a conflict in the story would be a young priest and a vampire fighting civilian (or to make it really vexing, a witch even) falling hopelessly in love, although they both know nothing can come of it. How would this resolve? Even I don't know. Right now it's looking like a tragedy.

And to all who suggested names:

Thank you! I shall look more into Ordo, Ordinem, Pontificals and the such.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

Yeah, the parish would be like a small community in which several churches can actually exist. A parish is normally composed of one small town/bario or several of them. The next tier of community would be a diocese, which includes Cities. Then an Archdiocese which is a much bigger diocese... IDK what the next would be called.

 

[Kaelan]

Might be useful looking into Hellsing, they have an organization that's pretty much exactly what you describe in #1: http://hellsing.wikia.com/wiki/Iscariot_(Vatican_Section_XIII)