The weakest parts of RPG battle design?

CWells

Storyteller/Artist
Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
731
Reaction score
40
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Compared to other games that involve combat, turn based RPG's can in many ways be pretty relaxed since you have full control over when to move ahead: just make a selection from the combat menu.

What limits bug you about this sort of combat style(although I love this sort of style)?

I've managed to put together in just about a week, a fully functional 14 character fighter game, RPG style. Using some wonderful scripts by the brains on these boards, I have been experimenting with enemies that have nearly identical stats to the players.

Thanks to a certain doppleganger script by Yanfly I was able to match up enemy and player classes so that they worked the same. This was a necessity for my figher since all opponents are such that can be picked through the menu screen. Or rather, through event choices.

There were two classes, light fighters and heavy fighters. The health parameter was the same for everyone, 600 at level 1 with a scale up to 3000 at level 99. Most of the other parameters were about the same with light and heavy given a very slight specialization in one or two areas. No difference greater than 20 points at max level across the scaling for light and heavy fighters.

I've been playing with it all for about two weeks now and found some things interesting;

on a six match marathon including 1 boss, I found myself on the losing end of many many fights. Most wins were ones where my health was under 150 points, on a max health bar of 600 at level 1. I tried to picture character movement as choices were made and notice some flaws:

Given the luck involved dealing with hit percentages, evasive percentages and other things, these fights have been heavily dictated by who gets to strike first. And since there was no way to really increase the chance of an opponent missing by walking back and forth, because it is a turn-based rpg, the smallest advantage given to any one side would almost guarantee who would win the match.Note the word almost. I've made a few tweaks to help provide a player with something to give them a chance at making it through to the end. My most notable change being extra 10% to health. And have made sure to fine-tune any oddly worked skills. Now things are looking fantastic with the exception of not having real movement.

An Active Time Battle wouldn't be much better for this sort of thing. It might even be worse, especially if speed could be increased upon levels. And without any change in the ATB between player and enemy there would be no real purpose for it at all.

What do you think are the weakest parts of turn based RPG? I have to say it is the lack of movement between characters and enemies. The lack of control over targeting and the dependence on percentage for targeting...
 

Silent Darkness

Robomage
Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
2,284
Reaction score
324
First Language
English
The pause between attacks is a bit of a downer. I'd like a system where if you don't do an action quick enough, the currently selected party member loses their turn. Probably a script that does that.

The weakest point of combat in a turnbased rpg is often: The limits the developer puts on the stuff in it :p
 

kerbonklin

Hiatus King
Veteran
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
1,728
Reaction score
282
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
The pause between attacks is a bit of a downer. I'd like a system where if you don't do an action quick enough, the currently selected party member loses their turn. Probably a script that does that.

The weakest point of combat in a turnbased rpg is often: The limits the developer puts on the stuff in it :p
Bro you're gonna love my project when I ever reach demo stages, it does exactly that but a speed debuff and forced auto-attack for that turn. 10 seconds to act.

On topic, i'd also say a major weakness is the pause between entering battle commands, giving people infinite time to think of what actions to make. It's not as thrilling. Which is why I avoided this with my project's custom battle system.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Darkanine

...In my thoughts and in my dreams...
Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
354
Reaction score
217
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
The weakest point of combat in a turnbased rpg is often: The limits the developer puts on the stuff in it  :p
I agree,developers think its to stop players from over-preparing,all it does is make a tedious long boss even more annoying incase you run out of supplies.

For me,its how long it can take to kill some bosses,I do love the turn based system and all but..when a boss has so much HP and/or defences,it feels more tedious than rewarding.Another annoying thing I have is the low amounts of MP with skills that cost a hefty amount of it,I know its to stop players from doing massive damage all the time,but again,it makes the battles a bit less interesting when all you're doing is default attack.
 

Silent Darkness

Robomage
Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
2,284
Reaction score
324
First Language
English
Bro you're gonna love my project when I ever reach demo stages, it does exactly that but a speed debuff and forced auto-attack for that turn. 10 seconds to act.

On topic, i'd also say a major weakness is the pause between entering battle commands, giving people infinite time to think of what actions to make. It's not as thrilling. Which is why I avoided this with my project's custom battle system.
When you get that one rolling, you should seriously make a module for it. I could use that. I would like to punish the player's slowness with no attack at all. That's what you get for standing there with your thumb up your rear.
 

Eschaton

Hack Fraud
Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
Messages
2,029
Reaction score
530
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
Menus.  F-wording menus.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

Chemical Engineer, Game Developer, Using BlinkBoy'
Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
14,696
Reaction score
3,007
First Language
Tagalog
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
@Silent Darkness - You could use Yami's Classical ATB on full auto mode, it's easy to use... you don't lose the turn if you're slow, but the enemies are gonna act while you're still trying to choose an action so being slow can give you lots of consequences...


Anyway, it really depends... I for one sometimes like the classical turn-based mode because it's relaxing... then sometimes I want it more action packed so I want some kind of ATB... It would really depend in what your game is about, does it need the classical turn-based mode or will it be better to use others like CTB or ATB in it?


The only limiting part of it for me is that I cannot really use projectiles or line skills in it... AoE targetting can be done via Yanfly's scripts but projectiles in the turn based battle is just out of league as of now...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Omnimental

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
237
Reaction score
83
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Honestly?  The combat system is usually dull as heck.  Generic attacks with little funtional difference between them, lots of unnecessary menus, enemies with way too much health... most traditional systems are the exact opposite of dynamic and engaging.  Just mash the attack button until everything's dead.
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

Chemical Engineer, Game Developer, Using BlinkBoy'
Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
14,696
Reaction score
3,007
First Language
Tagalog
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
Honestly? The combat system is usually dull as heck. Generic attacks with little funtional difference between them, lots of unnecessary menus, enemies with way too much health... most traditional systems are the exact opposite of dynamic and engaging. Just mash the attack button until everything's dead.
Most of that is not because of the battle system, but because of the design of the one who made the game
 
Last edited by a moderator:

senpoRiot

Professional Procrastinator
Veteran
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
291
Reaction score
36
First Language
Tagalog
Primarily Uses
What I don't like in some RPGs is the lack of tactics used by an enemy AI. Sure it is good if you are grinding EXP because you can just auto-attack them all without worrying the enemy will use a skill or whatever. I'm currently playing Suikoden Tierkreis right now and I'm seeing this lack of tactics here. It's very easy to grind for experience and to level up your characters but the longer I play it, I get bored and it's kinda frustrating.

I'm not saying that every enemy must have a very good AI cause it can be a hassle when randomly encountering them. A moderate AI that uses block, heal, etc. is a good random enemy, IMO.
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

Chemical Engineer, Game Developer, Using BlinkBoy'
Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
14,696
Reaction score
3,007
First Language
Tagalog
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
Again, it's mostly because the designer didn't put something, and not really because of the system being turn-based... and as far as RM goes, developers can make enemies have AI (via troop events or even simply via the skill settings on the enemy page), so lacking AI is on the developer side and not on the battle system per se... as for turn-based in general, there's more reasons as to why lack of AI is not because of turn-based battle system...

What do you think are the weakest parts of turn based RPG? I have to say it is the lack of movement between characters and enemies. The lack of control over targeting and the dependence on percentage for targeting...
Those are more of the default RM system rather than turn-based RPG as a whole... especially when you see that with scripts, it's possible to have all of those to some extent while retaining the turn-based style... Though of course, it's still not as functional as an action-RPG style...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Eschaton

Hack Fraud
Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
Messages
2,029
Reaction score
530
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
Victor Sant made a great battler AI script.
 

senpoRiot

Professional Procrastinator
Veteran
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
291
Reaction score
36
First Language
Tagalog
Primarily Uses
@adiktuzmiko - Ahh i see. well, I don't find any lacking parts in a turn-based system. Maybe it's a bit boring because of a slow-paced battle but I also like it because I can relax and think about my next move or go to the bathroom because it's not an Active Battle System and have pauses between attacks.
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

Chemical Engineer, Game Developer, Using BlinkBoy'
Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2012
Messages
14,696
Reaction score
3,007
First Language
Tagalog
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
though yeah, a lot of games using TB is lacking decent AI... it's also a good thing to bring it up... :)
 

Ed19

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Messages
301
Reaction score
119
First Language
Empty
Primarily Uses
N/A
Slow-paced turn based battle system is boring in long term. If u want to take a look for a good example of the fast-paced turn based battle system, play Suikoden 2.
 

senpoRiot

Professional Procrastinator
Veteran
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
291
Reaction score
36
First Language
Tagalog
Primarily Uses
Slow-paced turn based battle system is boring in long term. If u want to take a look for a good example of the fast-paced turn based battle system, play Suikoden 2.
I'm planning to play suikoden 2 after finishing Tierkreis and suikoden 1. :D
 

Ed19

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Messages
301
Reaction score
119
First Language
Empty
Primarily Uses
N/A
I finished Suikoden 2 when I was a kid once so I forget about the story lol, I'm still looking for Suikoden 2 but only the japanese version available (my english version is kinda bugged). I'll play the Suikoden 2 again when I've mastered my Japanese language.

I also recommend Suikoden 5 . Suikoden 5 battle system is not good because it's a slow paced one, but suikoden 5 has better character design and my favorite story, but the worst battle system (IMO). I finished Suikoden 5 in 50 hours so it's a long game.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Eschaton

Hack Fraud
Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
Messages
2,029
Reaction score
530
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
Slow-paced turn based battle system is boring in long term. If u want to take a look for a good example of the fast-paced turn based battle system, play Suikoden 2.
Pokemon is a fantastic example of this.

The right way to do turn-based were the GBA Golden Sun games (I never played the DS game).
 

kerbonklin

Hiatus King
Veteran
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
1,728
Reaction score
282
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
The right way to do turn-based were the GBA Golden Sun games (I never played the DS game).
THIS X 1000000000

Btw the 3rd game on the DS had a terrible plot but the battles were even better. (Same formula and everything but weapons had multiple unleash attacks, some single target and some multi-target)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

OM3GA-Z3RO

Wounded Seraphim
Veteran
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
826
Reaction score
180
Primarily Uses
I personally don't mind any style of RPG, for as long as it is not TOO grindy, the only RPG game I played that required a lot of grind was one of the Dragon Quests, can't remember which number.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Latest Threads

Latest Profile Posts

Unifying the code bases across MV and MZ for Haxe!
Anyone who uses Yanfly's Gab Window plugin: are there any features it lacks that you wish it had?
Working on Zelda-like tileset. Should be greatly refined. And tonight extra pave tiles, outward corners, abyss and water...
Is it possible to move posts from the in-progress project forum to completed games? I think I need to message a mod but a bit worried about bothering them

Forum statistics

Threads
100,545
Messages
977,079
Members
132,082
Latest member
cosmichamer
Top