"This is great for an RPG Maker game"

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MachineElf, May 12, 2019.

  1. GLM

    GLM ブラッドシェド © 1989 POLOCOM Member

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    I dread that when (if) I ever finish my game it will be dismissed as such.

    I'm an artist, not a programmer. I know how to use the eventing systems within the Maker series and don't want to dedicate years learning to write code when I have something right in front of me that does 90% of what I need.

    That being said, at least when you make all your assets you can "hide" the origins a little. Using the default RTP really makes you have to shine to get past the stigma.
     
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  2. VitaliaDi

    VitaliaDi Jedi Master Veteran

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    @GLM I'm in the same boat, I'm an artist and a writer, not a programmer at all. Eventing does the job for, and with MV the plugins are great. When I released my first game it got some praise for the unique art, people appreciated it among the sea of RTP resource games. Not that those games are bad, but the visuals of the game are part of the draw to people. If you make a good game original graphics can only help it I feel.
     
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  3. VisitorsFromDreams

    VisitorsFromDreams Veteran Veteran

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    As far as im concerned if your game can be judged based on its engine then thats the knock against the game itself. A great game is a great game no matter what its made in, but if all I can see in your game is the engine its made on then you have dropped the ball imo. Theres plenty of RPGM games out there that you wouldnt know were made in the engine unless you were told, those are great RPGM games because transcended their engine.
     
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  4. Basileus

    Basileus Veteran Veteran

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    I would argue that RPG Maker games don't need to "transcend" the engine, that's just saying the engine is bad and it's impressive that you could make a good game on it. You could say that a 3D action RPG made in Unreal Engine is "better" than a 2D pixel RPG for the SNES because it can do a lot more and look a lot prettier, but we all know that tons of games made in newer and beefier engines are actually kind of trash. The game made in Unreal Engine could very easily be buggy, laggy, full of cliches, have a lazily written script, have generic abilities, and stale gameplay all around (probably just being a clone of another, more popular game). The SNES game would have a lot more limitations on graphics and sound but good characters, fun and inventive gameplay, and a well-written story will easily carry it and make it an enjoyable experience regardless. The SNES game didn't need to transcend the console it was on, it needed to make the most of it.

    RPG Maker games don't have a bad reputation because the engine doesn't work. They have a bad reputation because of lazy/inexperienced devs not using what the engine was capable of. Some of it is the RTP graphics being everywhere to the point people got tired on them, granted, but more of it is due to games doing nothing impressive with the combat or events. It's easy to have an event that plays a few text boxes and call it a cutscene. It's easy to not touch the combat system and make skills that do damage and maybe look a little flashy and say you have a magic system. It's easy to pick some options from a menu and call it a class system or crafting system. So many games I see use the same suite of scripts that you see everyone else use - you could almost forget that Yanfly's stuff isn't part of the RTP sometimes. Combine that with a lackluster script and characters you've seen 100+ times and it's easy to see why people might think RPG Maker just can't make anything else.

    You can hide RTP graphics, you can hide the UI, you can use scripts. But you can't hide unengaging characters, a weak story, and stale gameplay. It takes a lot of work to do all the little things that make a game great but people will notice. Good mapping and more involved cutscenes where events move around the screen and do things will go a long way to look less "typical RPG Maker". A creative combat system that does more than just give you a list of skills that all do nothing but damage will go even further. Making players see your game as something better than the stereotype of an RPG Maker game takes more than just fancier sprites and tiles.
     
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  5. arekpowalan

    arekpowalan Veteran Veteran

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    The main issue is that many people make cheap games and put them on Steam. There are hundred of games being post there and most of them either look the same or use sexy images to sell the games instead of presenting interesting games. On the other hand, Kemco were infamous for pumping out dozen of mediocre JRPGs with cloned 2D resources. "RPG Maker" becomes a synonymous for lazy and repetitive programming, which is kind of true given how less efforts and knowledge are required to make a game and sell it online.

    However, if you really put your efforts into the project and make them looks different and plays very well, nobody's really care what engine you're using. Game Maker and Unity also used to have this kind of bad reputation until they have witness very great games are being made with them. Same goes with Adobe Flash being used by students to make "cheap animation" in the past, until My Little Pony and other contemporary animation shows made it a professionally accepted tool. Ultimately, your final product speaks more about yourself than the engine you're using to make it.
     
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  6. eluukkanen

    eluukkanen Composer Veteran

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    Ultimately you make the game. Engine and all tools are just helping you to accomplish that. People will often notice lack of effort and money-oriented goal in making what you wish to do. Projects, that have passion, rise above that.

    There is so much you can do with even RPG Maker Engines
     
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  7. GLM

    GLM ブラッドシェド © 1989 POLOCOM Member

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    I like the way this guy thinks.
     
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  8. cthulhusquid

    cthulhusquid Veteran Veteran

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    I'm in the boat of being a writer, but not an artist or programmer. Unfortunately, this means I'm limited in the art I use, since I am not willing to pay for unique art. I make my games as a hobby, and have no interest in selling them on Steam or whatever, so paying for stuff just isn't worth it.
     
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  9. Kupotepo

    Kupotepo Fantasy realist Veteran

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    When I watch let's play RPG maker video, I spotted obvious how much dedication or a labor of love real quick. The point is don't blame a messenger if someone points out honest mistakes in the game. People judge base on the content of the game. (Bugs can mean cannot continue the progression, the mood disruption, or the gameplay annoying ).

    Helping each other here to playtest and learning a better way of doing things. People will be going to complain about. I am doing right now.:guffaw:

    Find new resources would help your game stand out. (Most of the pitfall I found is not RTP resources, but it is a predictable story).
     
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  10. kaukusaki

    kaukusaki Awesome Programmer Extraordinaire Veteran

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    Rpg maker is just a tool like anything else. I'm a programmer writer and artist so i have a leg up on making a pretty functional game. However I'm also cheap, so doing all the things myself is keeping my game's in dev hell -_-
    Don't knock the engine. It's the amount of effort of the person putting the game together that makes it lame or not.
     
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  11. garahad-ser

    garahad-ser Warper Member

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    TL;DR - Like it or not people make snap judgments but there's alternative approaches you can take. Be the change you want to see in the world.


    Though I'm a firm believer that if you can't make a good game with just default assets and no plugins, you can't make a good game even with custom assets, here's a little devils advocate:

    What if on a lark Square decided "Let's make an rpgmaker game with just rtp assets and put it out on ps4 and pc."

    Would you play it? Perhaps, given Square's reputation. Or you'd wait for a review, but at least be open to the possibility that it'd be worth your time, right?

    Well then, think about it. Who are you? Particularly, who are you that people should be open to looking beyond the surface of your rtp game and assuming there must be good gameplay and story?

    They're going to assume, and in most percent of cases they'd be right, that you got rpgmaker thinking you'll rtp, autogenerate, and yanfly plugin your way into the ranks of "solo game dev" and dismiss it out of hand. Sure, IF they had taken a chance they might have been entertained enough by the gameplay and moved enough by whatever story you concoct, but why should they?

    Is it fair that you're expected to surrender even more money to commission custom assets to be worth the time of most people? Maybe not, but take it up with 'most people' if you don't like it.

    Or, there's other ways.

    One, you could stop trying to become the next Square, and make a game entirely to your sensibility instead of thinking of what others like. Then if you want, put it out there, and let people take it or leave it. You might think "how does that separate me from the other low effort types?" Easy, it's all in the intent. You aren't trying to desperately gain game dev clout, you're just putting out a work of passion and maybe asking for a few pennies on itch or something for it. And people might be able to sense the difference between those trying to bluff their way into a reputation, and someone who wanted to share their hobby.

    Two, you are not alone. Find the others who would prefer to focus on gameplay and story instead of custom assets and see if an accord can't be reached. I mean obviously one commonality isn't enough to make a lasting friendship and I'm not saying go bother seemingly like minded people, but it's clear the community isn't completely one sided on the issue.

    Three, one idea I've had is a game jam, particularly a game jam where the theme is that of making an rpgmaker game with only default assets and no plugins. Then the whole point would be to look past seeing Harold for the millionth time and seeing how you make him swing.
     
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  12. InFecTioN

    InFecTioN Villager Member

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    I mean, Undertale was made with Game Maker, and look how successful that was. You can put a certain amount of polish into a game, so that no one will even notice it's an rpg maker game.
     
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