Tips on Dealing with Steam

[crimcrim]

Well, in all fairness, I never had the intention of being a professional developer. To me, game development has always been a hobby. Legionwood 2 was originally going to be released for free just like all of my other games. The only reason I decided to go commercial is because with a full time job in addition to my writing projects, it was unfeasable for me to justify spending my limited free time making a game. The idea was to have my hobby support itself. The profits I make from my games help to justify spending the time creating them in the first place, time I could otherwise spend doing stuff for my job or working on my novel. That's part of the reason why I priced the game at five bucks. I'm not Aldorlea or Amaranth. All I want is to be compensated for my efforts.

I explain it a little better here in this old blog post. I don't have the time to be a "professional" developer. This isn't my day job. If it's wrong for me to want to earn a little bit of money on something that is only a hobby for me, then it's probably for the best I don't do it anymore. The only reason that the game is on Steam in the first place is because existing fans told me they wanted it on Steam. If it doesn't belong there, fine. I won't do it again.

That's respectable and I agree with you. Unfortunately Steam and commercial avenues in general are indeed the "big leagues" and unless your game is up to snuff then it will get blown out. If you like game development then keep doing it as a hobby. Who knows; you might make it big writing one day, then you can gather your own team and they can make graphics that will truly make your original stories shine the way they deserve to. Keep making games man, but only approach the big leagues when you can compete. Seriously.

This has become so ugly. Kilim, Kerbonklin, you should be ashamed of yourselves. To tell him he hasn't even made a game? That his story, all the soul he put into his work means nothing? You obviously have never been as attached to a project as he has. You can't understand the depth of his passion.

I suffered this same thing on RMN, and it kills me to watch someone else go through it. So I choose to speak up.

One more thing. Kilim said that commercial games must be perfect. This is laughable. What about the tons and tons of broken games released regularly that need patches? I'm talking "high-end" console releases. What a joke.

Excuse me? I'm not ashamed of anything. This isn't your RPG Maker hugbox anymore. This is the big leagues, this is where the best and brightest compete. His graphics do not reflect the 'soul' he put into his game at all. People do not care about your story. They cannot experience it from a trailer and they do not care. And do not insult me. I've put in years and tens of thousands of dollars into my project. I am more attached to my project than anyone.

Like I said, the commercial avenue is not a hugbox.

Commercial games have to be as perfect as possible. Instead of comparing yourself to the ****ty games that require patches (which isn't even an actual issue with the game itself; just the engine) how about you compare yourself to the top dogs. Shoot for perfection and you will come close.

This is not intended for hobbyists, this is intended for professionals.

 

[Solo]

People do not care about your story.

Well, I do.

 

[kerbonklin]

Commercial works is a long and harsh road that needs to be "near-perfect work or bust".  The fact that you said "I don't want to be a professional developer" and yet you made a commercial title is hypocritical. A commercial product is a professional piece of work. (Or at least should be)  Commercial development isn't something you can "hobby to make some money out of" unlike other normal everyday hobbies like selling trading cards over ebay, doing housecleaning for people, hell even making money over an online game's economy.

As said before, if you enjoy working with RPG Maker, keep using it as a small hobby, but you should definitely keep pursuing your writing goal/career. One day you may just end up as a Writer/storyboard artist for a AAA company, and as others said before, they may have the graphics to make your stories come to life.

Oh, and note that crappy AAA games, or crappy games made from decent-budget companies, you can always see the way they advertise, and they generally aim for very high FIRST IMPRESSIONS! Beautiful sexy women, badass dudes with giant swords, a very pretty image, etc.

Just look at Mangas for exmaple, doesn't even have to be video games. =)   (Or movie posters/trailers, or TV shows, magazines)

@Solo, i'm 99% sure nobody is jealous here in this conversation who are trying to explain the life of commercialism to him. Please do not try to White Knight, especially since I believe he is starting to see the reasons behind our advice. (Many of us here do have experience and high knowledge as well in the subject) Also, even if YOU care about his story, you are a minority. It's not about YOU, it's about all potential consumers who can only get a glimpse of the plot via screenshots/trailer videos and descriptions.

And as well, don't tell me I don't adore my own current project. Hell, I adore it so much that I have it put on hold right now until I get more advanced in programming plus Ruby, so I can make extremely well-made custom game mechanics, as well as learning FL Studio to make my own music, and deciding what kind of mapping style to even use. (Might go with custom parallax images with small-pixel colisions) I am also currently studying hundreds of games (and playing them) to learn everything I can to possibly incorporate and expand on into my own project, such as things like custom keybinds, a Microsoft Visual Basic launcher for the game, various resolution options, things that many of today's generation games all have, yet many RPG Maker games don't unfortunately. I've been working on my project for over 2 years now.

 

[crimcrim]

Well, I do.

You're not the majority, do not speak for them.

You haven't debunked any of my points in my last post and you still didn't apologize for mocking me or my project. I'm writing you off as a White Knight.

Gaia, please take what I'm saying to heart. Don't ever let your dreams for game design fade.

 

[Solo]

Please do not try to White Knight, especially since I believe he is starting to see the reasons behind our advice.

Because he said he won't do anymore games, right? You've succeeded in killing his creative passion. Congratulations!

Also, even if YOU care about his story, you are a minority. It's not about YOU, it's about all potential consumers who can only get a glimpse of the plot via screenshots/trailer videos and descriptions.

Just to clarify, I wasn't talking about his story in particular, rather, the stories of RPGs in general (as well as my own). To me, that is the heart and soul of an RPG. You're defeating the purpose of playing an RPG at all if you don't care about story. You might as well drown yourself in the bloodbath of the modern-day first-person shooter.

 

[Solo]

You haven't debunked any of my points in my last post

Nor am I obligated to.

I'm writing you off as a White Knight.

I have never been so honored. Also, I'm sorry for insulting you.

 

[Nathanial]

Since when did anybody say people don't care about stories in general? Pretty sure (looks up to verify) he implied they don't care about your story, nor can they experience it from your trailer. We're talking about first impressions here.  He never said story isn't important at all

 

[Dark Gaia]

To be honest, I'm not even sure why I still use RPG Maker. I know many years ago I promised to make Legionwood 2, and I guess that's the only reason I kept going. It was never meant to go on for this long and, again, the only reason I ended up releasing it commercially was to justify the time I spent finishing it off.

Game development just doesn't seem to have the magic it used to have for me (well, I originally used RPG Maker as a way to refine my writing skills, so make of that what you will). I took a foray into commercial development to see if I could reinvigorate a waning interest, but I've come to realise that my heart just isn't in it anymore. I don't want to be a professional developer. I already have a job which I enjoy doing. I never wanted to be in the "big leagues" -- I don't even use Steam to play games and didn't know a thing about it. All I knew is that some people said "you should put this on Steam. I wanna buy this on Steam" so I took the game and made sure whoever wanted to play it could get it at whatever portal they liked to use.

Then, of course, it suddenly seemed that everyone hated it.

I don't think commercial development is quite what I expected. I thought the fact that I'm a published writer would prepare me for it, but selling a book is not like selling a game. I know that now. This isn't really because of anything anyone has said in this thread. The fact is I was trying to do something I wasn't ready for and didn't have any experience with. My passion for making games has kinda been fading for a long time. That's part of the reason it even took 3 years to finish making an RTP game.

@Solo: They haven't "killed" my desire to make games. God, I'd be pretty damn sensitive if one thread on the RPG Maker forums did that. It's more that I didn't have a clue about Steam, and I've realised I don't have any desire at all to "compete".

 

[Solo]

Pretty sure (looks up to verify) he implied they don't care about your story,

And I was letting him know that, even if no one cares about my story, or anyone else's, so long as the creator cares about their own story, that's all that really matters.


Dark Gaia, I will say again, please don't let them beat you down like this. You have a light; don't let them put it out.

 

[Nathanial]

And I was letting him know that, even if no one cares about my story, or anyone else's, so long as the creator cares about their own story, that's all that really matters.

Okay but how does that have anything at all to do with facts about presentation and how it comes across to people when it comes to first impressions? Nothing. It doesn't. He was saying the story doesn't matter to people when they're watching a trailer for your game (at least when it comes to first impressions, that's the least of peoples concerns when you have RTP graphics and a cheesy trailer). Not saying your story in general doesn't matter. This isn't a debate about stories in an RPG. Please stop trying to turn the discussion into something it isn't.

 

[Solo]

Okay but how does that have anything at all to do with facts about presentation and how it comes across to people when it comes to first impressions? Nothing.

Touché. But it's still important to me.

 

[crimcrim]

Because he said he won't do anymore games, right? You've succeeded in killing his creative passion. Congratulations!

Just to clarify, I wasn't talking about his story in particular, rather, the stories of RPGs in general (as well as my own). To me, that is the heart and soul of an RPG. You're defeating the purpose of playing an RPG at all if you don't care about story. You might as well drown yourself in the bloodbath of the modern-day first-person shooter.

No, I killed his creative passion to sell games commercially that don't deserve to be sold commercially.

See Nathanial's post for clarification of what I meant on story.

Nor am I obligated to.

I have never been so honored. Also, I'm sorry for insulting you.

If you don't want to debunk points when people combat yours then don't bother participate in conversations. I appreciate the apology though.

And I was letting him know that, even if no one cares about my story, or anyone else's, so long as the creator cares about their own story, that's all that really matters.

Dark Gaia, I will say again, please don't let them beat you down like this. You have a light; don't let them put it out.

Uh...yes, for hobbyists I agree with you. Unfortunately this thread is about commercial game development. It isn't about the creator, it's about the consumer.

Let me explain how it works. You make a game for money. If your game doesn't sell you don't get money. No money means no food. You need to make sure the people (consumers) will want to buy your game so you get money. That means stop catering to your beliefs only and cater to theirs as well. You would die in the commercial scene with that attitude.

Anyway DarkGaia; you're very humble and I respect that. Please understand that I'm only being harsh because I'm trying to show you just what the real commercial world is like.

 

[kerbonklin]

 All I knew is that some people said "you should put this on Steam. I wanna buy this on Steam" so I took the game and made sure whoever wanted to play it could get it at whatever portal they liked to use.

Do you know about the movie for the cartoon series Avatar: The Last Air Bender?  M.Night Shyamalon got the idea for the film when his child said "Hey daddy, I love this show, this could be a great movie!"

So he did make it a movie. It was a horrible mistake and now it's officially one of the most crappy movies ever that made a mockery of the cartoon. It also barely made a profit. (actually I think it lost money, not sure)

Morale of the story: Just because someone says something doesn't mean you should do it.

 

[Solo]

No, I killed his creative passion to sell games commercially that don't deserve to be sold commercially.

That is your opinion. You are just one person, like any of the rest of us. You do not have the right to make that sovereign judgment.

 

[Dark Gaia]

For the record, nobody's killed anything. All that's happened is they've told me what I need to do to be a professional developer and play in the "big leagues". I don't want to do those things, and my heart just isn't in it to do those things. That's never what RPG Maker was for me. It was just a way to make something and share it with other people.

 

[Kav]

I just want to say this concisely: If you are going to make a game that you are selling, which means other people are paying you money, you do not use stock assets. A few here and there sometimes get used, even in AAA titles. However, if you're selling your game, it should use very little, if any, RTP (graphics, music, sound effects). Scripts should be custom as well, especially since the RPG Makers are incredibly limited tools that aren't really meant for professional game development. If you want to sell your game, you have to put money in yourself.

Your passion doesn't matter to the customer. How long it took doesn't matter. Your personal feelings are completely irrelevant. What matters is how it looks to the consumer, and if it looks like derivative shovelware, which most RM titles on Steam currently are, there will rightfully be a negative stigma attached to RPG Maker games. I've seen a couple that use custom assets and saw overwhelmingly positive reviews. The games getting trashed for being "RPG Maker crap" are the ones that use mostly or only stock assets, which kill the uniqueness of the game. Remember: Videogames are not a vehicle for your writing. They're a visual medium. Gameplay and graphics are far more important than story, and should both be as unique as possible. You get back what you put in.

 

[kerbonklin]

For the record, nobody's killed anything. All that's happened is they've told me what I need to do to be a professional developer and play in the "big leagues". I don't want to do those things, and my heart just isn't in it to do those things. That's never what RPG Maker was for me. It was just a way to make something and share it with other people.

Well said.

Can we finally lay this thread to rest? =/

I suggest a lock is in order?

 

[Solo]

I suggest a lock is in order?

I agree. Regardless of who's right or wrong, this topic has gone in a bitter direction.

 

[Tuomo L]

In all fairness, there are no RPG Maker games that offer these features. It's a limitation of the engine itself. That said, Legionwood 2 does allow the user to select a screen mode on the title screen of the game.

Actually any game lets you rebind the keys, it's standard feature; you can adjust the game keys from F1 menu.There's also script for the audio and the screen resolution inquires. 

 

[Lunarea]

@Dark_Gaia:

Steam is a tough crowd in general. There are always people who will dismiss the game easily, and they will choose "RPG Maker" as the reason because it's something that's quick to identify. A lot of the same people will dismiss a non-RM game because it's "another shooter" or because it's a "low budget indie". These are generally the people who write off the game before they've even really looked at it, and there's very little (if anything) you could say or do to get them to change their mind. That they're vocal about their choice is a part of the Steam culture, I suppose.

@Killim:

Sorry, but you don't get to decide what the threshold for commercial quality is when it comes to other people. You don't get to decide how much of a drive and personal investment another person should put in their game, either. If it works for you to pour in 10,000K and thousands of hours of work, great. It's not something that's required from another person, especially since you don't have actual proof that your investment's going to pay off yet. That a developer is actually engaging the community enough and trying to understand how to work with Steam better should be proof enough that they care about their game and how well their game does. Their idea of success might not mesh with your own ambitions, but that's not wrong.

Instead of chastising and belittling someone who's just dipping their feet in the commercial world, you should be more supportive of their efforts. Their success ensures a potentially bigger crowd for your game, and other RPG Maker games to come. And if their game fails, you've got a real world, practical example you can study to make your own game better (and market it better).

Pushing someone to the point of wanting to back out of game development isn't cool. Steam might feel like the big leagues, but Steam's also been a growing market for small, indie and low-budget games -- i.e. games that don't have the AAA regiment you seem to be suggesting. The expectations and requirements have changed drastically and will likely to continue to change as Steam goes through changes.