To quest or not to quest

[Gab8]

Hello all

I'm trying to design a RPG that resemble oldies like FFVI, Chrono Trigger and Breath of Fire 3. My question is: Should I use something like MA quest script to handle the main quest / side quests or should I assume that the player has enough retentive memory to handle that?.

For me it wouldn't be much trouble to add the script to the game and organize every task into quests so the player can see what's currently doing atm, but since these kind of games didn't have that and also I feel like it's a little too "hand holding" (let's face it, I'm not doing Skyrim where you have a gizillion of side quests) I'm not that much inclided to include this script.

What would you do?

 

[Kes]

I'd include something - maybe not the full script, maybe a skill which calls up a common event and the stage shown is determined by conditionals based on switches that the game is going to be using anyway.

The reason I think this is helpful is that sometimes a player has to stop for a day or two - maybe longer - and when you come back it can be difficult to remember exactly what you were supposed to do.  If you can't access the information easily, then quite possibly the player will just walk away.

The fact that the older games didn't do it is not directly relevant.  Different demographic of players, for example, might influence how long a break between one play session and the next.  Just because a reference game did/didn't do something doesn't automatically translate into I must do/not do that thing.

 

[Gab8]

I'd include something - maybe not the full script, maybe a skill which calls up a common event and the stage shown is determined by conditionals based on switches that the game is going to be using anyway.

The reason I think this is helpful is that sometimes a player has to stop for a day or two - maybe longer - and when you come back it can be difficult to remember exactly what you were supposed to do.  If you can't access the information easily, then quite possibly the player will just walk away.

The fact that the older games didn't do it is not directly relevant.  Different demographic of players, for example, might influence how long a break between one play session and the next.  Just because a reference game did/didn't do something doesn't automatically translate into I must do/not do that thing.

But when you played these games, did you feel the need to verify online what were you supposed to do next? (when you took a break, not when you were stumped on some part of the game).

 

[bgillisp]

In my game I added a Where to? Button to the menu which calls a common event where the lead character asks the other party members where are we to go to next. This way you can at least check where you are supposed to go to next for the main plot, in case you are lost or have forgotten what you are supposed to be doing next.

 

[Kes]

But when you played these games, did you feel the need to verify online what were you supposed to do next? (when you took a break, not when you were stumped on some part of the game).

I never played them - before my time.  And I never had a console.

 

[captainproton]

I like having a reminder of what was happening last time I played a game, but I can understand not wanting to make it too hand-holdy.

A lot of games, rather than listing specific objectives for quests, use a diary-type system, sort of merely making statement about what's gone on thus far. Usually, the player can then infer what to do next, without being told "Go to the Whatsit Temple and retrieve the Magic Thingie."

 

[Beamlight]

But when you played these games, did you feel the need to verify online what were you supposed to do next? (when you took a break, not when you were stumped on some part of the game).

This is a tough one. With the design of most of the Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger games, you were almost led by the nose to your next objective. This is a combination of the linearity of the titles and memorable cutscenes, I would say? The exception that's popping into mind for me would of course be Chrono Trigger's endgame, where there was so much stuff you could do.

 I quit playing Tales of Xillia a year ago, for various reasons, and upon booting it up the other day found myself with no recollection of what I had to do next (I recalled the story events, just not where I had progressed in the overall scheme of things.)

I think you can add it, and not feel bad about it, because its there if you need it, a tool for the player. I could see these old games having these back in the day just in case a player needs a nudge, especially if they left the game a long time ago.

 

[Gab8]

I like having a reminder of what was happening last time I played a game, but I can understand not wanting to make it too hand-holdy.

A lot of games, rather than listing specific objectives for quests, use a diary-type system, sort of merely making statement about what's gone on thus far. Usually, the player can then infer what to do next, without being told "Go to the Whatsit Temple and retrieve the Magic Thingie."

But I can simply do that with NPC text. For example, the elder gives you a task, you save and go to sleep. Couple of days later, you play again and talk to the elder, again, and he will say something as "You still didn't do the [insert task here] I told you!?". Granted, not much explaination there (depending on what you add as text) but simple enough to serve as a quick reminder.

 

[Gab8]

This is a tough one. With the design of most of the Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger games, you were almost led by the nose to your next objective. This is a combination of the linearity of the titles and memorable cutscenes, I would say? The exception that's popping into mind for me would of course be Chrono Trigger's endgame, where there was so much stuff you could do.

 I quit playing Tales of Xillia a year ago, for various reasons, and upon booting it up the other day found myself with no recollection of what I had to do next (I recalled the story events, just not where I had progressed in the overall scheme of things.)

I think you can add it, and not feel bad about it, because its there if you need it, a tool for the player. I could see these old games having these back in the day just in case a player needs a nudge, especially if they left the game a long time ago.

Yes and no. Most of the time you were led, but sometimes you had to just bump into it and, of course, some of it was optional. My narrative idea would be clear enough for the player to understand what it has to do ("go to x place, talk with y, do z") and not get lost in the way.

But if you left the game to a point where you have no recollection of what has happened so far, wouldn't it be better to start over, even if you remember bits of it? I mean, personally I wouldn't be able to pick up a game I left a year ago from some random spot, I would need to start over to have a fluid experience.

BTW, thanks all for your inputs 

 

[Seriel]

I like Pokemon Firered/Leafgreen's "Previously on your adventure" as a way of remembering what you're doing.

 

[Nirwanda]

I was going to suggest the same thing as bgillisp: the possibility to talk with your party members either via a menu button(like Phantasy star 4), skits (as in Tales of games)or by simply having them lounging around town(Persona 1-2) is both unobstrusive and old school friendly; not to mention that -when done well- it adds a fun extra layer of optional characterization.

That obviously doesn't mean that you HAVE to add any of this, but simply that no one will fault you for being newbie friendly. 

 

[Wavelength]

There are a lot of Game Mechanics discussions where I pontificate over whether a particular mechanic is situationally a good or bad idea based on the other mechanics in the game, and this is not one of them.

ALWAYS provide the player with conveniences as long as they don't detract from the core engagement of your game.

If you can provide a marker to the next objective, always provide it, unless the quest is about finding something that's not supposed to be obvious.  If you can provide an explanation of why an enemy made a certain move during a battle, always provide it, unless the thrust of the combat is to figure out why the enemy is doing what they're doing.  And if you can provide a log with every quest that a player has taken on, always provide it, unless part of the game's challenge is intended to be Simon-like memory.

 

[Quigon]

I like how Dark Souls handles this personally - a lot of the direction is inferred from character dialogue, visual clues and whether or not you get your ass whooped (harder) going into another area (though that does tie more directly in with the way that game handles KOs). If you have a million different quests then yeah, a journal or diary will probably be super useful, but if your game is pretty linear then I'd let your world do the talking, rather than having a quest log that's not really going to contain a bunch of different quests.

 

[Shaz]

Gab8, please avoid double posting, as it is against the forum rules. You can review our forum rules here. Thank you.


If you want to quote multiple posts, look for the MultiQuote button in the lower right corner of each one (right beside the Quote button). Hit that on all the posts you want to reply to, and when you're done, hit Reply to Selected Posts.


If you want your game to appeal to more people, don't assume any knowledge on their behalf - provide them with some hand-holding (ie quests, tutorials, etc) but don't force them to use any of it.

 

[arekpowalan]

It depends on your game. Quest system works the best when it coordinates with your story and characters.

Consider your theme and setting. Having side quests imply the story is either about helping people, building economy, exploring the world, etc. Sidequests such as errands and chores will establish your characters with the helpful personality or with the career possibilities such mercernaries, neighbors, adventurers, or even MMORPG players (basically, any group of heroes who have times to spare). Having a bundle of quests allows the player to feel more like the actual adventurers who spend time doing things rather than killing monsters all day and following the linear plot, hence the "role playing". Quest system also can create a powerful experience if the quests are unique and different from each other.

On the other hand, if your story is about world at war, or groups of soldiers doing their jobs, or heroes that are on the run, or any kind of plot that is rather tight with the main plots and conflicts, adding quests will cripple the story's pace. The element may create an implication that the main story isn't that important, or the characters are lazy. All of these may invoke suspension of disbelief. This doesn't mean the system is bad, just hard to pull out effectively: FFXII and FFXIII have all sort of "okay" monster hunting sidequests, but they tend to be underwhelming because they are repetitive and irrelevent to the main plots.

Determine if the quest system is necessary to your game, or if it's just an add-on or a gimmick. If the system appears to be just a filler, then don't push it. If it can greatly expand your game, then go all out. See it if you can expand the quests beyond "Do X" and "Kill Y". Use the system smartly, and it will reward you handsomely.

By the way, I don't think the "quest reminder" or "party talk" stuff need an RGSS script. Very simple, really, I just create a series of talking dialogue in a common event and bind the event to an item or a hotkey. At times I use a custom main menu script to add the common event into one of the vacant slots, efficiently done and fun to work with.

@below All in all, good luck and happy developing your game.

 

[bgillisp]

By the way, I don't think the "quest reminder" or "party talk" stuff need an RGSS script.Very simple, really, I just create a series of talking dialogue in a common event and bind the event it with an item or a hot key. At times I use custom main menu script and just add it into one of the opened slot, efficiently done and fun to work with.

You ar eright, I did that in my game. I use Yanfly's Menu system, which allows you to add a menu button that links to a common event. When  the player selects that common event, the party member (or members) remind you what you are supposed to be doing  next, and if it is something as simple as walk to this building, even offer to take you there if they know the way.

I feel it works well for the main plot. I still have some details to work out on how to handle side quests with it, but I'm happy with it working so far for a reminder on the main storyline at least.

 

[Gab8]

It depends on your game. Quest system works the best when it coordinates with your story and characters.

Consider your theme and setting. Having side quests imply the story is either about helping people, building economy, exploring the world, etc. Sidequests such as errands and chores will establish your characters with the helpful personality or with the career possibilities such mercernaries, neighbors, adventurers, or even MMORPG players (basically, any group of heroes who have times to spare). Having a bundle of quests allows the player to feel more like the actual adventurers who spend time doing things rather than killing monsters all day and following the linear plot, hence the "role playing". Quest system also can create a powerful experience if the quests are unique and different from each other.

On the other hand, if your story is about world at war, or groups of soldiers doing their jobs, or heroes that are on the run, or any kind of plot that is rather tight with the main plots and conflicts, adding quests will cripple the story's pace. The element may create an implication that the main story isn't that important, or the characters are lazy. All of these may invoke suspension of disbelief. This doesn't mean the system is bad, just hard to pull out effectively: FFXII and FFXIII have all sort of "okay" monster hunting sidequests, but they tend to be underwhelming because they are repetitive and irrelevent to the main plots.

Determine if the quest system is necessary to your game, or if it's just an add-on or a gimmick. If the system appears to be just a filler, then don't push it. If it can greatly expand your game, then go all out. See it if you can expand the quests beyond "Do X" and "Kill Y". Use the system smartly, and it will reward you handsomely.

By the way, I don't think the "quest reminder" or "party talk" stuff need an RGSS script. Very simple, really, I just create a series of talking dialogue in a common event and bind the event to an item or a hotkey. At times I use a custom main menu script to add the common event into one of the vacant slots, efficiently done and fun to work with.

@below All in all, good luck and happy developing your game.

Thanks! 

Yeah, the story would be similar to those games I mentioned above. Summed up would be just a regular boy in a regular town that somehow escalates to [travel through time to save the world from an ancient and time devouring monster / whatever ff6 was about (cant remember now) / finding out you're one of the last of a dragon race that's supposed to bring down an evil goddess], so my sidequests would either be chores like "go there, kill / collect x amount / return and reward"  to increase the skills of the characters rather than add to the story or stuff like that, altough I'm also inclined to do the side story of the party members as well (but I don't know if I should include that as part of the main quest as well, probably might).

So yeah, right know I'm thinking that, even though I would like to have sidequests (and probably will have), I don't really need a script to handle that. Also like that option of talking with your characters to remind you what you're supposed to do. I recall BOF3 had that in the way of camps, where you could camp anywhere in the overworld to restore your hp and talk with your party (A priori I believe it's doable, just one small map with a big tent in the middle and the party there hanging arround or not (based on switches, if they already joined, etc) and also having their speeches scripted this way. 

Anyways, thanks everyone for your inputs!

 

[wallacethepig]

Oh, come on.

OH, COME ON.

Spoiler

To quest or not to quest, that is the quest-ion.

In games - especially RPGs with grinding - time is as valuable as EXP or Gold, if not more so. With enough time, a player could get to level 99 fighting slimes. If a player wants to log 200+ hours into a so-called 2 hour game, then let him. There's nothing you can do about it.

That was an exaggeration, obviously, but I hope you get what I'm saying. Quests take up time. Extra time. Therefore, the player should be rewarded for using time that could've been wasted otherwise. If you're gonna have quests, make sure that they have, well, rewarding rewards. RPGs are a big currency exchange - you trade time for gold, gold for stuff, and stuff for experience, which then allows you to spend more time. More or less.

People have already given you some good ideas, so allow me to say that every quest should have a purpose. Maybe you get a sword that can't be gotten anywhere else. Maybe you get a shield that is sold in the next town over (but is also very expensive). Maybe you get something as regular as gold or a few common items. But whatever the reward, the trick is proportioning it to the challenge. Do that, and your quests will be a cinch to make!

-Wallace