Status
Not open for further replies.

Negi-Mox

My hand got fractured!!
Veteran
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
140
Reaction score
33
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
[mod]Modertor's note: This is mlogan posting in this message. I tried to create an initial post, however, because of time stamps, this is one is showing first, so I'm adding this bit to this post. I'm starting this topic to help move a discussion from a game thread to somewhere more appropriate. The thread started with this game, and the discussion around whether RPG Maker users should charge at all for their games and if so, how to determine the price point.

I want it to be clear - we do not censor negative feedback, but try to channel discussions into the appropriate place. That is why I am moving some of the comments that will aid this discussion to this thread, and hiding others that do not pertain to specific, constructive feedback or reviews of game topics.

And please note, I linked the original thread, not so that the creator can be personally ripped apart here, but simply for clarity and transparency about the moved discussion.[/mod]

Original discussion from the linked thread above:

Good game ,just one advice don't sell it for money let it be free.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Negi-Mox

My hand got fractured!!
Veteran
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
140
Reaction score
33
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
@bgillisp I'am not riping I'am giving advice.

I was just trying to say was "We don't make games for money it's our passion" and its not worth of money its not even 3d its just 2d.He had not done that great work and all the things in the games are simple just some switches and some text picture scripts.It's not worth of money,
 
Last edited by a moderator:

bgillisp

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
13,936
Reaction score
14,772
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
This engine is all 2d. There is no 3d in RPGMaker. But if you honestly think a game isn't worth the money, post a through review as to why you would not buy it, but don't just say don't sell it, as that is more an insult to the devs than anything.
 

Negi-Mox

My hand got fractured!!
Veteran
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
140
Reaction score
33
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
Okay,the reasons are:
1)It's 2d and he is selling it.See there is so many 3d game that are free like Warframe,Team Fotrees 2 etc.They are even and are 3d and this 2d and he is selling it that's knid of akward,and I know that many 2d game are of money but they not like these they are multiplayer or you can take Spunkely I don't know it is free or not.This the only reason why I'am saying this..
 

mlogan

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
16,120
Reaction score
8,931
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Plenty of people have no problems buying 2D games. If you choose not to, that is fine, but it's not a reason to tell someone not to sell it. You will note that all games made with RM engines are 2D, yet we still have this commercial section here for people selling their games.

Constructive criticism would be things like poor battle balance, poorly designed quests, bad storyline, etc. (Please note to future buyers: I am not saying this game has that, using it as examples.)
 

Puffer

creator of a game that doesnt exist yet
Veteran
Joined
May 2, 2016
Messages
283
Reaction score
701
First Language
Vietnamese
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
This game for 6,99??? No thank you, I expecting it to be under 4$ or something
 

Nekonron

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
59
Reaction score
28
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
This game for 6,99??? No thank you, I expecting it to be under 4$ or something

You sound very shocked, may I know why? (Genuine question).

FYI, from what I've managed to gather, most players would take about 5-7 hours for a single playthrough and up to 20-30 hours for full completion (cleared all available chapters and endings) without using a guide. If you use a guide and know what to do right away, it will probably take about 4-6 hours to clear the entire game (100% completion)

The length of a game does not necessarily justify it's value, of course, it's just one of the factors I've taken into account when coming up with it and also enabled regional pricing. This is just a little insight and I've generally received good feedback so far from those who have bought it, so I really do want to know why you think it should be under $4.

@Knayter I'am with you.

Hmm... At this point I'm beginning to wonder what it is exactly that you're trying to achieve :kaoswt:
 

bgillisp

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
13,936
Reaction score
14,772
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
This game for 6,99??? No thank you, I expecting it to be under 4$ or something

I've never understood that argument. People have no problem paying $10 to see a 2 hour move, but have an issue with a 5 - 7 hour game which costs $6.99. If you look at it, the movie cost you $5/hour and the game cost you (using the 7 hour figure here) $1/hour, yet it is wrong for the game to charge more? That makes NO logical sense.

And honestly, if we looked at inflation figures for game costs, video games should be almost $100 right now per game. And yes, you saw that correct. Games asked for about $49.99 in the early 90's, and usually inflation doubles the price of everything in about 20 years, so...$100.
 

Puffer

creator of a game that doesnt exist yet
Veteran
Joined
May 2, 2016
Messages
283
Reaction score
701
First Language
Vietnamese
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
You never understand that argument because itsn't an argument @bgillisp
And your point doesn't make much sense too me. People watch a move and playing a games is 2 completely different things. I do agree that people make games/movie, they do need to earn to fill up the money they have spend on.
1. Movie isn't something any body can do, they charge 10$ for only 1 ticket for a reason, the budget for a movie to be made is never low, infact even low budget movie, it's still unaffordable with only one person, but making games is different. Indie developer can spend low amount of money but still be able to make a great games, and with the engine RPG Maker, their jobs is like 100 times much easier than working with other engines
2. I also do agree with @Negi-Mox (just 1 part), he is a typical character for the Internet. Not everyone can be satisfied with a games, even the greatest one. And he is just complaining, that normal. Personaly, I think everyone can judge each other work, not just "You don't make the game, y u complain bruh??" , "You don't even paid for it, y u complain bruh" People judge,, and the way how the Moderator acting here, I don't like it at all, blocking all the hate, just like hiding form all the trouble off your life. Even I argee that in this forum there is kid uploading their games here and hate comment will hurt their feelingg (BUT THIS IS A COMMERCIAL GAMES SO DOESN'T MAKE MUCH SENSE) You should tell him to be less argressive, yes make the game free is not right at all (or is it) but have you guys ever check out free games that 10000 times better than paid games? Their must be a lot of things that make you complain about this game even you didn't play it at all, I mean just look at the screenshot it look very dissapointed to me(and probaly him too) First impression is important but @OP can't do it, and that is a big as hella reason for me and him to complain about the games.
3, Why don't I like the price of 6.99? Because it doesn't fit for the budget @OP spend on the game at all. The mapping are terrible, the artwork isn't that great either (I don't want to count the engines into this part, RMMV is great) The budget for this project is probaly around 1000$ or even lower. A game on steam with some publisher and advertise. My friend made a game that is only 2,99 (gameplay under 30 minutes) and can earn 1000$ easily in just a week. I know the OP publish this game by himself, and I would probaly don't want to paid full price for a game like this (by like this I doesn't mean 2D, I love 2D games more than 3D games actually) I can doubt with you guys if this game is getting more popular, the rating will be mixed, not postive anymore, and this is some kind of games that would be on a bundle full of 20~ games for just a dollar can get after a year of release if this was published by a Publisher, and people would buy it for collecting games, since this isn't some kind of game people have to wait for sale to buy it just because they don't have enough money, this game can't hive me up at all. So I just want to adjust the price to fit what people expecting it to be. You can't just make a game that make people things "JUST ANOTHER RPG MAKER GAMES" and then charge it 6.99 and hoping everyone to be on your side, well at least anyone who use this engine.
Oh also, Gameplay Duration isn't the important things, To The Moon is around 3 hours for 7,99 and people will still happy to bought the sequal. Quality, the effort, and most important of all is @OP's dedication put into the games, People can't see it through the screenshot, they don't like it. I suggest your game to be for 3.99 or 2.99, that fit for most people.
I hope that the mod the OP can actually understand the problem here, that isn't just my opinon, but even if it is, you guys (MOD) should learn how to take opion form a people correctly, not just said, it's just your oppion, other things different than you, this game has 3 review and they are all recommending and that's good enough.
 

bgillisp

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
13,936
Reaction score
14,772
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
@Knayter : You say both have to recoup the cost, right? Well, then let's look at it this way then. MANY games on steam stall out at the 1,000 sales point, which is maybe (let's use your $2.99 as a figure)...$1500 made after steam takes their cut and you pay taxes (and yes, you will see maybe 50% of the sale price in the end after that is done). So...in order to even make minimum wage on that $2.99 game you could only work on the game for:

$1500 / 7.25 (US minimum wage, its even higher in Europe) = 207 hours, rounded up. That's it. That's all the time you have to even work on the game, and that is not even including art, music and such. And before you say they should just work for under minimum wage, remember people gotta eat. Making a game for the act of just making a game doesn't pay the bills, and it doesn't put food on the table.

So honestly, if both need to recoup their costs, then your argument about the price is still invalid. I highly doubt you can make a game for under 207 hours of about any sort, short of an entry for a contest.

And even if we allow for 10,000 copies sold, which is rare for an RM game per Steamspy, as many games with original art aren't even hitting that mark (Examples: The Amber Throne (~8,000 per steamspy) and Echoes of Artheria (~3000 per steamspy) didn't, ), that still only gives you 2,070 hours to make the game, if sold at $2.99.

Now, granted, that does go up nicely as you raise the price, and I know the games I mentioned wanted $14.99 last time I checked. But that's still requiring them to make the game in (assuming $0 for art, scripts, or music):

3000 * 14.99 * 0.50 / 7.25 = 3,101 hours. That assumes all copies are sold at full price, which is unrealistic, so the real number is probably lower. And, it drops even more once you add in the cost of art, music, and scripts.

So, really, if games were to price themselves to recoup the cost of development like movies do (per your argument) they should still charge at least 2x as much as they do.
 
Last edited:

mlogan

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Mar 18, 2012
Messages
16,120
Reaction score
8,931
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
@Knayter We are not blocking hate, nor do we expect everyone to like every game ever, or even every game posted here.

The original issue was not that Negi Mox did not like the game or had negative feedback, but rather that Negi Mox claimed that the creator should not be selling at all simply because the game was 2D. That is not a valuable review nor helpful feedback by any means. Had Negi Mox made a statement along the lines of "I don't feel this game is worth paying for because the 2D graphics are not worth the cost" or "I personally do not care for this type of game and therefore do not feel it is worth the cost" would have been more helpful statements.

Of course people are entitled to feel something is not worth the value being charged, but that does not mean they should demand the product be free because of that. Instead, they are free to choose not to purchase it. I often put things on Steam on my wishlist so that I can know when the price has dropped enough that I feel it is in a price range that I am willing to pay. That is my choice. But that doesn't make it okay to go around telling those creators they should not be charging for it simply because I am not willing to spend money for the price they've determined.
 

The Stranger

The Faceless Friend
Veteran
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,437
Reaction score
23,019
First Language
British English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Gotta love it when others attempt to dictate what is and isn't worth being sold. It's that kind of dickish attitude which really grinds my gears when it comes to feedback from gamers. One voice in a sea of millions does not determine the worth of a product. None of the above arguments from @Knayter or @Negi-Mox make any sense, and seem to come from a certain degree of ignorance.

@Knayter So, all films are made by professionals with gigantic budgets, with even the smallest budget being far beyond the reach of the common man? Guess you've never attended a film festival, or seen an indie film, then. In fact, there are short films on YouTube which were made with tiny budgets. There's a low budget, sometimes no budget, scene in virtually every artistic field.

I'm also not sure what you're getting at by stating $6.99 doesn't reflect the budget for the game in question. Simply buying the engine already makes it so he\she has spent far more than $6.99. Regardless of money spent, people genuinely aren't interested in how much money a dev has poured into a project, but rather the end result. Fans of indie games (not just large budget indie games) often appreciate effort and passion above financial backing and technical superiority.

At the end of the day, the dev can slap whatever price tag he\she feels like on their product and the market will determine if it's worth it.

@Negi-Mox Your argument about 3D being the only graphical form worthy of buying is your subjective opinion and not a fact. There's nothing even to argue about when it comes to that. The simple fact that 2D games have seen a huge resurgence over the last couple of years even making their way on to consoles and seeing physical releases, proves this. People have loved 2D games for as long as I can remember, and likely will continue to enjoy them long after I am dead.

You don't want to pay $6.99, or anything, for a 2D game? Fine. However, your preferences are not the word of God, and do not reflect reality in any way shape or form.
 

Negi-Mox

My hand got fractured!!
Veteran
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
140
Reaction score
33
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
@The Stranger
I not with the graphical game.I'am saying that see I had played a lott and lot of 2d game most of them is Pokemon and metroid,so there pixel art is just very good and story is also very cool and the everything,and I also played his games demo,it was not worth money his title is not that much great he just used a text sound script and a picture in the text script/plugin,as back to Pokemon there pixel art is very good and the title is also awesome!HOPE you understand it
 

bgillisp

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
13,936
Reaction score
14,772
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
Right. The important thing is the market decides what the price ends up being. Anyone remember Beanie Babies at all? The price of those were completely whatever the market decides the price of it should be. So if everyone out there decides that all RM games out there should be $100 a copy, that will be their value.

Of course, if I ever see a game on steam for $100 right now I'm going to wonder if I accidentally read that price in the wrong currency or something :)

Edit: I forgot, there was a $200 game on Steam last weekend, Social Interaction Simulator. It got pulled though. At least a search for the game on Steam comes up empty now.
 
Last edited:

Negi-Mox

My hand got fractured!!
Veteran
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
140
Reaction score
33
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
Beanie Babies
Semms like I had played that one is in that game we have to shot the babies then they became like coverded in a withe cloth then we have to take them and there also boss battle and there is also other guns and other type of babies like one with a headphone?
 

The Stranger

The Faceless Friend
Veteran
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,437
Reaction score
23,019
First Language
British English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
@Negi-Mox In your opinion it's not worth the asking price. Others may agree or disagree with you. Keep in mind that there's fans of virtually everything out there. I've paid more for far inferior games on Steam, believe me; eye candy does not make a good game. Sorry if my previous post came across as a little harsh or insulting, but I'm just so sick and tired of seeing similar arguments made against RM games on Steam.




@bgillisp Not quite $100, but pretty close. One of the most expensive games I've seen on Steam. To be fair, it does look extremely complex and in-depth. :)
 
Last edited:

Negi-Mox

My hand got fractured!!
Veteran
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
140
Reaction score
33
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
I don't see where you are going but as far as I can think.We are just saying that it not worth money cause it has a bad mapping,and bad graphics and title!!AND the concept is also not great!!
 

The Stranger

The Faceless Friend
Veteran
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,437
Reaction score
23,019
First Language
British English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
@Negi-Mox Again, in your opinion. Offer up some constructive criticism: why are the maps, graphics, and title, bad? Personally, I think the maps could use some work, but there's nothing at all wrong with the assets themselves. As for the title, I've no idea what your beef with that is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Threads

Latest Profile Posts

I've been a bit to depressed to get work done on the game lately. Don't worry, I'll be okay.
LunarFlareStudios wrote on Solar_Flare's profile.
Hey, my name is Lunar Flare Studios, and you're Solar Flare? That's so weird!
How has this place been dead quiet since after I posted about Deltarune? That's the only post that people are reacting to now... will you please read my other statuses?
Another comic with Backstage Malak...
If you want to ask him anything, you can ask on my DeviantArt page! I'm not sure if you're allowed to do it here.

Forum statistics

Threads
115,296
Messages
1,088,724
Members
149,939
Latest member
Kionea
Top