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Negi-Mox

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Nice talking to you I gotta go to sleep!!
 

mlogan

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However, please keep in mind that this should be a general discussion, not a critique of one game. Again, if there are valid points to be raised with a game, placed inside a constructive review, that needs to go in the game's topic.
 

Caitlin

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It all goes down to passion about something. There are people who put tons of hours into not only creating a 'fan game', but surpassing the original game, releasing it for free, because it is a tribute to the original game. These people are absolutely amazing and I am highly impressed with their skills. There are people who put the same amount of hours creating the same game as the one above only it is a clone and 50-50 percent of the time, it is either free or paid. But they're doing it because they loved the feeling and game that they are trying to clone. There are people who create a games and stories, never to release a game, because they not only the creation process of said game, but sharing it, too. There are the indie game makers who enjoy the creation process, the passion of creating unique stories and while they know that they won't make millions of dollars, enjoy selling games.

There are no right or wrong answers when it comes to 'should I sell a game', but rather what you feel comfortable about doing. You might start off making a couple of free games and suddenly decide to create a commercial project. That's okay. As long as you have a passion for the process and creation, everything else is completely up to you. There are people who write books, give them away for free, fan fiction, self published books and even large publishers, so it's okay to decide what is best for your game.

The only thing I would take into consideration is your skill with the engine, from mapping, learning how to mix graphics, how to create atmosphere, the use of the right music and the ability to edit graphics a bit. If you are just beginning to use any engine, it hardly matters if it is RPG maker to the Unreal Engine, your skill with said engine is what is going to be more important in decision to sell or not sell.
 

bgillisp

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Beanie Babies isn't a game, it was something sold in Happy Meals back in the early 90's and the price of them skyrocketed for no real reason beyond market speculation. Eventually the prices crashed back down to real values, leaving some people stuck holding Beanie Babies they had spent $10,000 on but could only sell for maybe $1.
 

Matseb2611

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At the end of the day, the dev can slap whatever price tag he\she feels like on their product and the market will determine if it's worth it.

This pretty much sums it all up. If there are people out there willing to pay $6.99 for this game, then the dev has every right and good reason to charge that much. Just because the game doesn't appeal to everyone, doesn't make this price any less valid.

I come across all sorts of people leaving comments and reviews like that on my games, saying it's not worth X amount (which is extremely subjective), but I am not going to listen to just 1 person who isn't a fan of the genre when there are thousands of people out there willing to buy the game for the price it was given. The worth of a product is subjective to a large degree.
 

Orb

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The worth of a product is subjective to a large degree.

Maybe, but there's a technical component that we should not ignore. The problem with RPGM is that people get so overexcited about creating their (first) game (with few to zero knowledge in graphic design, scripting, writing, mapping or whatever skill you need to make a fairly decent game), that they automatically believe they can make lots of money out of it.

====
Please note that my following comment is a general opinion and it is not directed to anyone or anything in particular:

I think it's important to understand the difference between making a game just for the sick of it/for fun, and having the intention of creating a commercial product. You want to charge 10 dollars for a poorly-made game? sure, you have the right to do it so, would I pay 10 bucks for it? Probably not, no. The market itself will determine whether your game is worth that amount or not. The real issue (I think) is that RPGM games in general have a very bad reputation due to hundreds of "independent developers" who are extremely excited about making a game, but do not worry at all trying to make something decent.

Now, the word "decent" is a bit broad. It is hard to determine quality in art because... well, it's supposed to be subjective (I don't buy this tho), and that's fine. Hence, you can see all these "modern" paintings made with zero effort worth millions of dollars, and it's really frustrating (at least to me) when you have all these independent artists who put lots of effort into their creations and have to struggle to make a living because they have no place in "the market". A good example I can think of would be Rauschenberg’s White Paintings, or Ryman's white canvas (which, by the way, it's literally a white painting that was sold for 15 million USD). Anyway... my point here is that RPGmaker games are mostly made by amateurs because that's what the platform was made for in the first place: to give common people the chance to create their own games, but you should also have some ambition and sense of, aesthetic? (so to speak) when making it, especially if you have the aim of selling it to the people. You might like your own creation, because you put your hearth into it, but that doesn't mean is technically good.

Some good (and not so good) points have been brought up in both sides, I'd like to point them out very quickly
  • Whether a game is 2D or 3D has NOTHING to do with its worth. This is a very simplistic way to put it from someone who's way too used to play modern, HD, last-generation videogames
  • The developer has the right to put whatever price he/she wants, as well as the player has the right to decide if he/she pays the price for the game. (if you don't like it, don't buy it, as simple as that)
  • It is an excellent idea to start with non-commercial games first, which will give you the experience and the sense of professionalism you'll need to make a good, commercial game in the future (if that's your plan)
 

bgillisp

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The real issue (I think) is that RPGM games in general have a very bad reputation due to hundreds of "independent developers" who are extremely excited about making a game, but do not worry at all trying to make something decent.

It's not just RM that has come under fire for this though. Unity is taking a TON of flak for all the poor unity games that there are now people who are unwilling to buy a game made with unity either. Jim Sterling posted a recent video about this topic this week actually if you wish to see more, but he sites a news reporter who posted about this, then commenters started saying they don't buy unity games anymore due to the rep.
 

Negi-Mox

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Yo,i'am BACK!!So I read everyones comment and it was too much!!:rswt2::rswt2:I didn't read much,and @bgillisp I thaught that it was a game just forget about.SO,I read the comment of Orb but really I didn't read all cause it was so big.@Orb you were saying that "people make there first game without any knowlegde of making game" and that's what we are talking about if i'am correct the Ecapse Room Reality if his first game?If i'am wrong tell me.SO that's what we are saying he should make it free cause its his first try.
 

Skunk

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One thing I have noticed from reading these comments is that you say that the devs of these rpg games that cost 6.99 don't cost as much as a movie, and that's fair.
But at the same time, these are not android and iphone games.. they are not $1.99 apps you get like candy crush...
These games are a piece of art, each game has a piece of the people who worked on it inside of it and that is worth more than a movie ticket in my humble opinion..
And on that same note, you are basically assuming that their time is worthless if the time they spent on the game doesnt equate to spending anything on the development of it.
I think it's highly unfair to tell someone their art/work/music/film/resource/script/creation in general isnt worth what they think it's worth.
you are entitled to your opinion, but don't enforce it like you have the final say in what something is worth.
I once sold a tiny rock for 13,000 dollars, ON MY FIRST TRY!... I also once sold a huge rock for 500 dollars...
(Skunks proverb)
 

Kes

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@Negi-Mox People were asked to make this a general discussion, not focus on one particular game. Please stick to that.
 

Matseb2611

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Maybe, but there's a technical component that we should not ignore. The problem with RPGM is that people get so overexcited about creating their (first) game (with few to zero knowledge in graphic design, scripting, writing, mapping or whatever skill you need to make a fairly decent game), that they automatically believe they can make lots of money out of it.

Yeah, I totally understand that. It happens a lot. But again, the market will determine if they were right to assume that. If their game truly is poor and unpolished, then not many people will buy it, and those who would are going to leave a lot of negative reviews. This will then let the dev know that perhaps they overcharged for their game.

It is hard to determine quality in art because... well, it's supposed to be subjective (I don't buy this tho), and that's fine. Hence, you can see all these "modern" paintings made with zero effort worth millions of dollars, and it's really frustrating (at least to me)

I agree with this too. I get into arguments with people online about this. Some like to claim that anything that inspires emotion is art, which is an absurd notion to me, because objective standards matter. However, we're talking about the business side of things here and the way market determines the price of a product. IF there are enough people willing to pay a certain price for it, then why shouldn't the dev set that price? The objective quality might not be superb for that product, but it sure must be offering something if so many people are willing to pay for it.
PS: Also, $6.99 is hardly anything compared to the prices of high end indies (~$20-30) and AAA games (~$60).
 

jkweath

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Yeah, I totally understand that. It happens a lot. But again, the market will determine if they were right to assume that. If their game truly is poor and unpolished, then not many people will buy it, and those who would are going to leave a lot of negative reviews. This will then let the dev know that perhaps they overcharged for their game.

This is pretty much my opinion on the subject. As everyone else has been saying, the game dev can set their price to whatever they want, but if the customers see that this game dev wants $6.99 for a game that was clearly made in RPG maker (due to using the default RTP graphics that dozens of other RPGMV games are also using), they simply won't buy it and the game's sales will suffer.

On the topic of "should RPG maker devs be charging for their games?) I want to bring up three particular games:

OneShot
To The Moon
LISA

Each of these games were made in RPG Maker and are priced at $9.99 on Steam. I can personally vouch that To The Moon, despite only being a 2-3 hour game, is worth every penny of that $9.99.

You may believe that $9.99 is a hefty pricetag (I actually agree somewhat--I'd wait until they have a sale), but these three games are hugely successful despite the pricetag. Looking at the reviews of these games proves that.
 

Negi-Mox

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Each of these games were made in RPG Maker and are priced at $9.99 on Steam. I can personally vouch that To The Moon, despite only being a 2-3 hour game, is worth every penny of that $9.99
No Lisa is free!
 

Kes

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@Negi-Mox On Steam for me it shows up as £6.99, which more or less equals $9.99, so no, not free. Even if it were, that does not negate the point made at more length that, in the poster's view, To The Moon was worth $9.99
 

Negi-Mox

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@Kes no its free I can show you??
 

Kes

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@Negi-Mox No, because this is derailing the thread, which is not about LISA.
 

Andar

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To solve that discussion (because that is also something to consider in this topic):

The free "Lisa the first" on rpgmaker.net is an older example variant that has the same concept as the later LISA that is sold on Steam and is NOT available for free anywhere (other than at cracked and pirated sites).

And that is a way to do business - to release a demo or a shortened game to test interest on the concept, possible even use that demo to launch a kickstarter for a better version (as it appears to have been done in this case), and then sell the larger new version.
And the LISA that this was about from the first mentioning here is that advanced version that never was available for free.

So people should take the time to really check which games they were writing about, because it is often that there are shortened free demos as well as commercial full versions.
 
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