Too many elements? Too many heroes?

[Michael Caiola]

I'm looking for opinions on something. My only real experience with RPGs is the pokemon games, so I'm drawing some inpiration from them. I have 12 heroes based on the zodiac signs split into four partie based on the four elements fire, earth, air, and water. (Each sign has an element, three signs per each.) I'm creating weapons and skills and adding different elements to them. I have the four elements of the zodiac signs (fire, earth, air, and water) and as I go I'm adding new elements related to those.


I came to a total of 15:


Physical, Fire, Light, Thunder


Earth, Stone, Poison, Time


Air, Lust, Flying


Water, Ice, Dark, Energy

I was talking to my friend who a long time Final Fantasy player and he was telling me that was way too many. That typical RPGs just have four standard elements, although those element might differ. Things like poison don't have their own elements, they just exist as states.


Even before he said that, I was thinking about merging Stone and Earth as they are very similar. I had intended them to behave like Rock and Grass from pokemon. I've also been going back and forth about having Time as it's own element. I thought it would be a unique element. It's intended for the Capricorn based hero as that zodiac's corresponding god is Kronos, the god of time. I could also have enemies that have a degree of influence on time or could be resistant to time-based attack and skills. Lust was intended for the Libra-based hero whose corresponding god is Aphrodite, with the same idea as Time and Capricorn.


Putting thought into it, I know these are the base elements I need for the characters to work how I want them to:


Physical, Fire, Light, Thunder, Earth, Air, Water, Ice, Dark


That's 9. My friend said that's still too many.


Light goes with the Leo hero, as Leo's god is Apollo, the god of the Sun.


Sagittarius has Zeus, so there's Thunder.


Ice isn't necessary, but I feel it's a natural extension of Water.


Cancer is in the domain of the moon, so by extension she represents night and darkness, therefore her element is Dark.


I wanted the extra elements to help give the heroes their own identities.


My question is, is it too much?


Is 15 elements too much for a player to handle? I know I can handle it. I have ways of making them work with each other and with enemies to where they won't require a lot of effort to use, but still factor into play strategies. But he's got me worried that people are going to see the amount of elements and not want to bother it.


On a related note, he says 12 heroes without a central protagonist is too much, too. I knew that going into it, so that's why I split them into four parties and designed the characters to work together in a way that will feel like just controlling 4 characters down their own paths. What do you all think?

 

[bgillisp]

Depends on how it is done. Most Shin Megami Games have 7 elements at minimum (Phy/Ice/Fire/Wind/Electric/Light/DarK), and some add Gun as well. Most fans of those games think the number of elements is just fine there, at 7 - 8 elements. So I see no reason to be hindered by how FF does it. If it is done well, it will work.


For the heroes, again, it depends. The biggest factor is are any of the characters dead weight, or are all of them needed for the story? Now, admittedly, no matter how you do it, some players are going to stick with the first 4 no matter what you do (or however many is a full battle party in your game), so you may want to design with that in mind some as well.

 

[Michael Caiola]

I see no reason to be hindered by how FF does it. If it is done well, it will work.

That's what I thought and that's what I told my friend.

For the heroes, again, it depends. The biggest factor is are any of the characters dead weight, or are all of them needed for the story? Now, admittedly, no matter how you do it, some players are going to stick with the first 4 no matter what you do (or however many is a full battle party in your game), so you may want to design with that in mind some as well.

They're all needed for the story. Here's a short version of the plot:


The gods engaged in a civil war and by the end, only 11 remained. Hyperion led the "evil" forces and he was the only one left on his sides. He was opposed by the 10 gods tied to the zodiac (8 planets named for gods, the sun for Apollo, and the moon for Artemis). In my mythology, those 11 gods are where the 13 zodiac signs came from (12 for western zodiac). The 10 on the "good" side imprison Hyperion in the Earth and leave Earth to reside in their respective planets. Centuries later, a group of humans raise Hyperion and he begins to wreak havoc on Earth. The gods choose 12 champions to harness their powers and the powers of the zodiac to save the people of the Earth, defeat Hyperion, and restore the Earth.


All 12 are tied to the zodiac and are required to defeat him. None of them will be dead weight. Dividing them into 4 parties of 3 will help with that. There will be four paths to the story, each unique in their own way. When playing the Fire path, you have the three fire sign heroes to play with: Aries, Leo, and Sagittarius. They will be designed so that you need all three for most important aspects of the game. Battles will always start with all three unless you choose to remove one from the formation (if their health is low, inflicted with a negative state, etc.)

 

[kovak]

I still don't get why people like to have so many element types, i preffer to keep things "simple" as in "break down stuff" like when you look at physical and notice that it can be divided into 3 other elements: Blunt, Pierce, Cut. Or when they become one: replace Thunder and Light with Light only. Or even when you notice that throwing stones at people doesn't turn it into an element, that's just physical damage.


As bgillisp said "It's up to how you see things"...or something like that.

 

[Feliaria]

I mean, I am curious as to what type of abilities an element named 'Time' or 'Lust' would be...


Also, I really feel like Air and Flying cover the same archetype, no?


The big thing, though, is just to make sure that each element has its place in the story and that each element feels unique. It wouldn't make sense to have an Air attack and a Flying attack, for instance, if they do the exact same thing.

 

[Michael Caiola]

I still don't get why people like to have so many element types, i preffer to keep things "simple" as in "break down stuff" like when you look at physical and notice that it can be divided into 3 other elements: Blunt, Pierce, Cut. Or when they become one: replace Thunder and Light with Light only. Or even when you notice that throwing stones at people doesn't turn it into an element, that's just physical damage.


As bgillisp said "It's up to how you see things"...or something like that.

See, I actually think breaking down physical into blunt, pierce, and cut is the opposite of simple. And that Thunder (and lightning by association) is a very different element from light.


One of my heroes is made of obsidian, so that's where I'm getting the Stone element. I do struggle to think of how it's any different than physical damage, though.

I mean, I am curious as to what type of abilities an element named 'Time' or 'Lust' would be...


Also, I really feel like Air and Flying cover the same archetype, no?


The big thing, though, is just to make sure that each element has its place in the story and that each element feels unique. It wouldn't make sense to have an Air attack and a Flying attack, for instance, if they do the exact same thing.

In my head, air includes attacks that manipulate air and flying includes attacks would involve flight, not using the air as a weapon itself. But to kovak's point, how would that not just be physical damage?


Time and Lust are interesting to me and that's why I included them. They're different.


Time abilities would include turning back time (ie restoring health and states to how they were in a previous turn), manipulating enemies' relative time to rapidly age them which would deplete hp and debuff stats, freezing them in time or "time locking", future attacks that you use in one turn but don't hit until a few turns later, skills that affect the agility of allies or enemies. All of these could be achieved without a special time element, but the element would help if I want enemies that can influence time themselves who are immune or resistant to these types of attacks.


For Lust, I originally didn't have it as an element. For the Aphrodite character, I wanted her play styles to be largely defensive. Since Aphrodite is the goddess of love and sex, I figured I'd use those as weapons, essentially. She has a passive ability that effectively reduces the attack and defense of enemies that target her and enemies that she targets, respectively. She has skills such as Seduce and Lust that buff the the passive trait and also reduce the hit and evasion rates of the enemies, and even more powerful skills that immobilize her enemies out of sheer lust and desire for her. Again, these skills could all just be non-elemental skills, but I wanted certain enemies to be immune or resistant to them.

 

[kaukusaki]

*devils advocate mode* There are never too many elements.  If you can make it work and all unique between each other go for it.  

 

[Michael Caiola]

That's my mentality. 

 

[YoraeRasante]

The problem is you are thinking about your elements in how it relates to other games. It is no problem to use them as inspiration, but it is when you try to limit yourself to what they do.


Time and Lust, in this case, are not elements. They are skill types and states. Time Mages is a classic Final Fantasy class, but it was never called "element of Time". And unless it affects more than just make these skills separated from the others, it makes sense. Your Lust is also a new way of thinking, but still a view on mixing Pokémon and Megami Tensei's Charm.


Stone... I think it is more of a character trait than an element. He is more resistant to physical and fire damage, for example. I see no reason to make an element out of it.


Now, for your final elements... Fire, Light, Thunder, Earth, Air, Water, Ice, Dark, these 8 are perfect. The six classics and two expansions that are distinct enough they are their own elements. I mean, yes, if you want you could also add Nature or something if you control plants (an idea for damaging skills for your Time guy, since plants need time to grow), but if they are not unique why add more?


Physical... most don't even count it, but as mentioned before by others it also can be split into piercing, blunt and slashing. And they affect the enemies mechanically. A slime would be immune to blunt and resistant to slashing damage, for example, while a skeleton would be immune to piercing and extremely weak to blunt.

 

[Niten Ichi Ryu]

Just make sure the 12 don't end up wearing gold armor, shaped as their zodiacal namesake.


I would follow Waterguy advice here, relating to time and lust. Most of what you want to achieve can indeed be done with state, even being immune to some.


I think what really matters is what elements will do in terms of gameplay for the player. I mean, it's really easy to confuse mechanics and lore, or try to merge them, and it could be a mistake to try to fit every magic/special effect to an element.


lets take your Capricorn. His relationship to time magic will be perceived by the player via his skills, your characterization, and how you will weave this into your game lore. The elemental "tag" Time is in the end just a mechanical impact, that may be totally overlooked by the player thus missing the point of trying to give a unique feeling.

 

[YoraeRasante]

Just make sure the 12 don't end up wearing gold armor, shaped as their zodiacal namesake.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that is copyrighted.

 

[LaFlibuste]

The multiple elements with complicated relationships in pokemon work because it's really the core of the game. Everything else is built around this, and your "protagonist" (well, in battle at least) is interchangeable to adapt to the current needs.  Could it work in a FF-like battle system? Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on what you want to achieve. FF is actually a bit simplistic but it works because battle is not really the main focus (in older titles at least), it's more of a way to enhance to plot and bring it forward. Too many elements with a complicated system would put more emphasis on battles, you wouldn't feel like breezing through 'em as much, it would detract from the story and maybe would feel as heroic. Whereas in pokemon, the pokemons themselves and the battles they are used in is the main focus. With a collectible-like philosophy, a large and complicated roaster of elements works well. So when designing this sort of thing, always think: what is the goal, what do I want to achieve? Is this particular mechanic helping me reach my goal or detracting from it?

Another point to consider is what your elements represent, to you. In pokemon, they are attack types as well as a state of being. So having a "time" or "lust" element could work, because it's more thematic than anything. The other end of the spectrum is more realistic (as far as magic can be considered realistic) and elements are more like damage types: cut, pierce, smash, burn, freeze, shock, corrode, etc.. In such a game, a "time" element would be silly, because what could time damage even be? Premature aging? Most games (including FF) fall somewhere between the two: they have thematic elements that feel like damage types. Because as someone else said, if you think about it, what is earth if not crushing damage using rocks? What is wind if not cutting, piercing or crushing damage using wind? What is water if not crushing (and maybe a bit of cold) damage using water? The only one that really works on both sides of the coin is fire. And maybe lightning, but what is it really if not burns (fire) using electricity?

So to conclude, determine your end goal and find a mechanic that fits it. Think about what your elements represent. In pokemon, they work as thematic states of being because it fits the monster and it doesn't aim at being realistic in the least. In games like Shin Megami (disclaimer: I have never played any of those games), from what I know about it, it works too because you fight demons and monsters, but at the same time you're humans so it's a bit more compromising/traditional. But in other games such as FF where you are mostly humans (with extraordinary powers) it makes less sense. Yes, there are monsters in FF, but most of them are not really explained and part of the world/plot, they're mostly an excuse for filler and feeling epic. What about your game?

 

[Michael Caiola]

The problem is you are thinking about your elements in how it relates to other games. It is no problem to use them as inspiration, but it is when you try to limit yourself to what they do.

I wasn't trying to do that. I was thinking about how they would work in my game, but pokemon was all I really had to draw from.

Time and Lust, in this case, are not elements. They are skill types and states.

Stone... I think it is more of a character trait than an element. He is more resistant to physical and fire damage, for example. I see no reason to make an element out of it.

I'm starting to see it this way, too.

Now, for your final elements... Fire, Light, Thunder, Earth, Air, Water, Ice, Dark, these 8 are perfect.

Awesome.

I mean, yes, if you want you could also add Nature or something if you control plants

I had planned on incorporating this into the Earth element.

Physical... most don't even count it

I didn't know that. Would physical be the same as just not having an element?

With a collectible-like philosophy, a large and complicated roaster of elements works well. So when designing this sort of thing, always think: what is the goal, what do I want to achieve? Is this particular mechanic helping me reach my goal or detracting from it?

This is helping me understand what I want and how to achieve it in this game. Battling is not the focus, but it does play a big part. The teamwork aspect of the battles is going to be important and come into play as the story progresses.

In pokemon, they work as thematic states of being

I think I was going for a hybrid of this and just attack strengths/weaknesses. But the game isn't really based on monster combat or elemental combat, so I'm starting to think making the elements a theme isn't the way to go.

lets take your Capricorn. His relationship to time magic will be perceived by the player via his skills, your characterization, and how you will weave this into your game lore. The elemental "tag" Time is in the end just a mechanical impact, that may be totally overlooked by the player thus missing the point of trying to give a unique feeling.

This is exactly why I haven't settled on what to do.

 

[YoraeRasante]

I didn't know that. Would physical be the same as just not having an element?

No, no, that's not what I meant. I mean, you can make an enemy or character resistant to physical attacks, but not to Non-elemental attacks.


I meant that, when speaking of elements, people usually consider physical damage as aside from elements themselves. There ate types of physical damage, but no one really calls them elements.
The only exception that comes to my mind is Chrono Cross, where even normal attacks are elemental due to characters having innate elements - they are better with the equipable magic of that element, and resistant to attacks from it, and the opposite from the opposite element.

 

[Basileus]

I think the main problem here is that you're designing from the top-down rather than starting down and building up. Basically, you're thinking too much about Lore at this point when you need to think about mechanics right now.


The most important thing to remember is this: Anything affecting the battle system needs to have a purpose, a noticeable and predictable effect on gameplay.


Pokemon: As has been said, the sheer number of elements works here since it suits the collectible nature of the gameplay. The elements ("Types") are the core part of gameplay here. Each Pokemon has 1 or 2 "Types" and this affects which attacks they resist and which they are weak to. All "Water" types are weak to "Electric" type attacks. All "Ground" types are immune to "Electric" attacks. Each Pokemon also has 4 abilities with all attack abilities having a type as well. The "Same Type Attack Bonus" (STA system encourages the player to have at least 1 attack matching their Pokemon's type; a Ground type Pokemon with no Ground type attacks wouldn't crush Electric types nearly as hard as one that does and would feel thematically off. But this mixing and matching makes up the gameplay and allows Pokemon to have abilities not suited to their types specifically to fight against their weak match-ups if the player chooses.


Final Fantasy: The elements here don't seem to actually matter that much. You typically have Fire, Ice, and Lightning spells but sometimes other elements get mixed in. The only real purpose to the elements here is that most monsters have weaknesses and exploiting them helps speed up combat and makes the player feel good for making good tactical decisions. It also punishes the player for trying to "One Trick" the game - nothing says "You dun goofed" like only getting Fire spells and running into a monsters that actually heals from Fire damage and has high defense.


Tales of Symphonia: This game focused heavily on their element and mana system both in the combat and the plot. There were 8 elements. Fire, Water, Earth, Wind, Ice, Lightning, Light, and Darkness. Each element is paired up with an opposing element; Summon Spirit of Fire, Ifreet, is opposed by Summon Spirit of Ice, Celsius, and thus creatures and spells align with Fire are weak to Ice and vice versa. Earth and Wind oppose each other, as do Water and Lightning, and Light and Darkness. This keeps everything very consistent for the player and makes it easy to find the right elements to use against enemies of different affinities. These elemental type relationships are also a major plot point and heavily involved in the lore.


Magic the Gathering: Yes this one is a card game, but I just adore the Color Wheel. There are 5 "Colors" in Magic - White, Blue, Black, Red, and Green - aligned into a circle in this order. Each Color is allied with the two next to it (White is allies with Green and Blue) and opposed by those across from it (White is enemies with Red and Black). Each card has 1 or more Color types, or is Colorless. Each Color excels at a specific strategy or two and has unique mechanics that cards of the other Colors don't get, with some abilities being shared or similar to allied Colors and some abilities are designed to counter opposing Colors. White represents law and order, so it specializes in weak creatures that work well together and enchantments which can create new rules other players have to follow. Blue represents knowledge and illusion, so it specializes in drawing extra cards and counter spells. Black represents ambition, so it specializes in "power at a cost" with cards that sacrifice creatures, cards in hand, or their own life points for powerful effects. Red represents chaos, so it specializes in creatures with high attack and low defense that can attack the same turn they are summoned and direct damage spells. Green represents nature and growth, so it specializes in huge behemoth creatures and effects that spiral out of control if not kept in check.


Fire Emblem: There aren't a ton of elements here but the rock-paper-scissors style "Weapon Triangle" is integral for gameplay. Swords beat Axes, Axes beat Lances, and Lances beat Swords. Likewise, melee ground units are strong against archers but are weak to flying units, which in turn are weak to archers. And for magic there is Light magic which beats Dark magic, which beats the shamanistic Anima magic, which beats Light magic. Within Anima magic there is Fire magic which beats Wind, which beats Lightning, which in turn beats Fire. The core gameplay here is making the strategic decisions to arm your troops with multiple weapon types and send troops against units they are strong against while keeping them away from units they are weak against.


My advice to you is to work out your battle system and then make up the names later.


You have to really know the actual purpose of each type.


Why is "Time" a type? What is different about a "Time" spell? Are there things that are especially weak to "Time" for some reason, or that are somehow resistant to it? If nothing is weak to an element then it risks either having no purpose and being useless or being brokenly OP because nothing can resist it. 


Why is "Physical" an element? Does only one of your heroes use weapons? Does only that hero get the basic attack command, or are his basic attacks somehow different? If each hero gets standard physical attacks then isn't every hero "Physical" element? You could divide this into elements based on weapon type; heroes with swords can do "Slashing" damage, those with spears can do "Thrust" damage, Bows and do "Pierce" damage, etc. If an enemy were to be weak to "Physical" then all heroes should be strong against it so it would just be super weak, and if anything were to resist "Physical" then only heroes with magical attacks would be useful.


Same with "Lust". Are they seducing their enemies? What exactly is "Lust Damage" and why would anything be weak to it?


The purpose of Elements in a game is to determine strengths and weaknesses. These need to be relatively intuitive for the player and be consistent throughout the game. Think of each "Element" as a type of damage that can be dealt - what exactly does attacks like that look like? How can it be resisted and what types of enemies can you make that should logically resist it? How could it be super effective against something and what should logically be weak to this type of damage? Then you have to make sure that no Elements/damage types are useless or too powerful - if one Element has no weaknesses then why use any other unless forced? Having fewer Elements is a dev strategy to make sure that no aspect is too powerful or ignored, but you can have as many as you want as long as you can answer all of these questions for each Element and are prepared to make attacks, items, weapons, and enemies to correspond to them. Do not just have them for the sake of having them.

 

[Euphony]

I think a good alternative to having a long list of elements is to simply make a distinction between elements and enemy types. You can classify enemies by the usual elements (fire, water, earth, etc) and also by the type of creature that they are (beast, reptile, insect, etc). This gives you the same opportunities as lots of elements without having to stray into all those abstract ideas like "time" and "energy". The player can look at that flaming hellhound and go, "Right, this is a beast-type enemy, and it uses fire. I can use my hunter who's good at taking down beasts, and my witch who uses ice magic." It's straightforward. They don't have to sit there trying to remember Zodiac signs or the Seven Deadly Sins or whatever fantastical idea you're trying to attach to your elements. Sure that stuff's fun, but it's too fluffy for the battle system. Save it for the story, where it can be explained properly and used for world/character building.

 

[Michael Caiola]

I think the main problem here is that you're designing from the top-down rather than starting down and building up. Basically, you're thinking too much about Lore at this point when you need to think about mechanics right now.

See, that confuses me because I thought elements were part of the mechanics. I'm also not sure how this is top down if elements are part of battling.

Why is "Time" a type? What is different about a "Time" spell? Are there things that are especially weak to "Time" for some reason, or that are somehow resistant to it?

In order: because I have a hero that specializes in time manipulation, a time spell essentially manipulates time which I intend to be a major aspect of the game as opposed to just some skills here and there, there will be but I haven't fleshed that out yet.

Why is "Physical" an element?

I was under the impression a physical element was required to contrast "magical" elements like fire, water, etc. So a human would be affected by physical damage but a ghost or energy based creature wouldn't be. I also thought it was needed to serve as sort of "non-elemental" damage, like just being hit with a sword or something.

You could divide this into elements based on weapon type; heroes with swords can do "Slashing" damage, those with spears can do "Thrust" damage, Bows and do "Pierce" damage, etc. If an enemy were to be weak to "Physical" then all heroes should be strong against it so it would just be super weak, and if anything were to resist "Physical" then only heroes with magical attacks would be useful.

This is where I get confused. I thought physical was just plain, non-elemental damage. If I break it down to slash, thrust, pierce, blunt, etc, how does that work? If, in my previous example, I have a ghost enemy, would I make it immune to slash, thrust, and pierce? Or would they somehow be classified as physical? How does it work?

The player can look at that flaming hellhound and go, "Right, this is a beast-type enemy, and it uses fire. I can use my hunter who's good at taking down beasts, and my witch who uses ice magic." It's straightforward. They don't have to sit there trying to remember Zodiac signs or the Seven Deadly Sins or whatever fantastical idea you're trying to attach to your elements.

I was never going to make the player memorize stuff like that. It's going to be very intuitive. I was even looking into the enemy types, as well.

I meant that, when speaking of elements, people usually consider physical damage as aside from elements themselves. There ate types of physical damage, but no one really calls them elements.

But are they elements in the database?

 

[YoraeRasante]

See, that confuses me because I thought elements were part of the mechanics. I'm also not sure how this is top down if elements are part of battling.

Elements are part of the mechanics, yes. But, are you doing them because of the mechanics? Or because of the lore? Are the mechanics integrated with the lore? Symphonia, as Basileus mentioned, and Chrono Cross, that I mentioned earlier, actually make the elements part of the lore. That integrates them, but the mechanics do not suffer over-confusion because of this.

In order: because I have a hero that specializes in time manipulation, a time spell essentially manipulates time which I intend to be a major aspect of the game as opposed to just some skills here and there, there will be but I haven't fleshed that out yet.

"A hero that specializes in Time Manipulation" is not exactly an element, but more of a Skill Type. Unless it actually affects damage, it is basically a buffer/debuffer/states guy, but not an elemental guy. Elements in RPG Maker deal with damage-handling, so unless your time spells somehow cause damage they do not count as element here.

I was under the impression a physical element was required to contrast "magical" elements like fire, water, etc. So a human would be affected by physical damage but a ghost or energy based creature wouldn't be. I also thought it was needed to serve as sort of "non-elemental" damage, like just being hit with a sword or something.


This is where I get confused. I thought physical was just plain, non-elemental damage. If I break it down to slash, thrust, pierce, blunt, etc, how does that work? If, in my previous example, I have a ghost enemy, would I make it immune to slash, thrust, and pierce? Or would they somehow be classified as physical? How does it work?

Physical element is, by definition, not magic-made damage. That does not mean everything is affected by a punch, a stab or a slice the same way - thus the different types of physical damage: blunt (a punch or a club-like weapon, anything that is pure impact), piercing (a spear or a stab, or an arrow or a bullet, anything that penetrates the body to affect the organs inside) and slicing (a sword or axe, something that causes a cut).


A ghost would probably be resistant to all three, but a skeleton would be almost immune to piercing and resistand to cutting, while weak to blunt, because it got no internal organs and cutting would only chip the bone, but impact would break them.


Non-elemental damage, on the other hand, does not cause extra damage to anything, but is also not resisted by anything. It is the super spell element, in a way, not able to take advantage of weaknesses but nothing can resist it either.

But are they elements in the database?

If you go by the database definition, yes, they would count as elements. But, as a convention, when talking about elements people think about magic types of damage. You'd have types of physical skills and of magical skills, but most conversations about it would only count the later as "elements".

 

[Euphony]

@BryanBatcher Oh, I wasn't trying to say you would intentionally do such a thing, just that it would be an easy trap to fall into. The more quirks you add to the system, the more work you have to do to ensure the end result is intuitive for the player. Unfortunately, it's very easy to get excited about your ideas and underestimate the work involved. And by "you", I mean anyone in general btw.


Also, to answer your question regarding things like slash/thrust/pierce, those can totally be set up just like any other element in the database. Whether a skill is physical or magical is determined by the Hit Type option and the damage formula you use. The elements in the element list have no bearing on that - they're just tags, so you can use them however you please!

 

[Michael Caiola]

Elements are part of the mechanics, yes. But, are you doing them because of the mechanics? Or because of the lore? Are the mechanics integrated with the lore?

I have always intended for the mechanics to be integrated with the lore. I thought that would be a good way to balance having 12 heroes and 4 story paths.

"A hero that specializes in Time Manipulation" is not exactly an element, but more of a Skill Type. Unless it actually affects damage, it is basically a buffer/debuffer/states guy, but not an elemental guy. Elements in RPG Maker deal with damage-handling, so unless your time spells somehow cause damage they do not count as element here.

I do plan on time spells causing damage. I'm trying to do something unique with time in my game. I like thinking out of the box and trying new things.

Physical element is, by definition, not magic-made damage. That does not mean everything is affected by a punch, a stab or a slice the same way - thus the different types of physical damage: blunt (a punch or a club-like weapon, anything that is pure impact), piercing (a spear or a stab, or an arrow or a bullet, anything that penetrates the body to affect the organs inside) and slicing (a sword or axe, something that causes a cut).


A ghost would probably be resistant to all three, but a skeleton would be almost immune to piercing and resistand to cutting, while weak to blunt, because it got no internal organs and cutting would only chip the bone, but impact would break them.


Non-elemental damage, on the other hand, does not cause extra damage to anything, but is also not resisted by anything. It is the super spell element, in a way, not able to take advantage of weaknesses but nothing can resist it either... If you go by the database definition, yes, they would count as elements. But, as a convention, when talking about elements people think about magic types of damage. You'd have types of physical skills and of magical skills, but most conversations about it would only count the later as "elements".

That really helps me understand it. I was conflating damage types and elements. So any damage types I want to include would be elements but in the colloquial sense. Then, on top of those, I would have effective elements like Fire, Earth, etc... So poison wouldn't event get its own element, would it? Any poison damage I could think of could probably fall under another element. Poison states would be just that, right?


And like everyone has been saying with Lust, those are just states, so there's no element needed.


And Time, if I don't intend for it to be a special kind of damage would also just be states. However, I do want to have Time be a special kind of damage.


Physical wouldn't be an element, per se, just non-elemental damage types. So I don't have to include that in my element planning.