Too many spells?

[Rello]

Hey all,

I was going through my spell list (just spells in this instance, not counting physical moves) and my summons (who teach spells- similar to FFVI) and I think I may have too many spells...

I have 9 elements ((Fire, Water, Earth, Shock, Wind, Poison), (Dark, Light), (Neutral)), about 8 ailments (not including Death), Stat Buffs and Debuffs, Curing, and various other spells.

Each element has around 10 spells (Level 1,2,3,4 single targeting, Level 1,2,3 all targeting, nullifying buff, reflecting buff, and absorbing buff)

Ailments have around 7 spells each (Single and All inflecting, Single and All curing, Nullifying Buff, Reflecting Buff, and an Instant-Kill to those inflicted)

Curing spells total about 10 (Level 1,2,3 single targeting, Level 1,2,3, all targeting, revive 1/2 hp: single, revive all hp: single, revive 1/2 hp: all, revive all hp: all)

Etc, etc, etc. The total amount to about 160 spells. 

Maybe it's just me, but that's kind of a staggering amount. I was heavily influenced (read: kind of copied from) the Shin Megami Tensei series, especially the Digital Devil Saga sub-series.

Does this seem like too many spells to you guys? I was debating condensing, but wouldn't know where to begin.

I was investing into a "skill equip" script to help alleviate from there being a menu of over 200 selectable abilities. 

 

[Blade]

You call 160 much..?

I have about 62 classes with averagedly 15 unique skills each, 11 elements and well over 70 status ailments..

:U

 

[Rello]

I dunno if I'd say it's "too much" just yet, just trying to get a general consensus.

AND HOLY FRACK, 62 CLASSES!?

 

[Neverward]

I believe that if your character is able to learn all of those spells together, it may be a bit overwhelming, but if it is sectioned into classes or a tree you follow and some spells make others not available that variety is good!

 

[B.Ultimus]

I'm a minimalist by nature.  Spells you use at level 1 is just as useful at level 99, but that's just my design.  I've seen games with hundreds of spells do great, and I think gaining more powerful spells and saying good bye to your outdated ones have a bit of a charm to it.

 

[Rello]

I'm a minimalist by nature.  Spells you use at level 1 is just as useful at level 99, but that's just my design.  I've seen games with hundreds of spells do great, and I think gaining more powerful spells and saying good bye to your outdated ones have a bit of a charm to it.

I was thinking that but then it came down to "Well, what if you're running low on MP and you can't afford Thundajaraga (or whatever Final Fantasy is calling their spells now), but can use the lesser level variant?"

 

[Alexander Amnell]

I have 51 in my game so far (each actor has a primary class that cannot be changed and 5 (8 for two characters) secondary classes that they can choose from. These classes range in skill-sets from between 1-14 skills per class with an average of around 7-8. I don't think it matters how many skills that you have, but it is important to have every skill have a purpose. Be creative with them and give each class a unique dynamic.

 

[kerbonklin]

The following helps alleviate from overload.

-Passives of various forms

-Class learning separation

-Tree learning separation

-Equipment separation

-Upgrade replacement

-Progression learning restrictions based on plot

-The pacing in which skills are learned in the first place, and how they're learned

-Learning some skills as side quest rewards or achievement rewards

And as Alexander previously stated, implanting character/class-roles and giving them unique skill-systems can also help.

 

[Rello]

Maybe all of my spells could be AoE or All Targeting (reduce list from 7 per element to 4 or so) and just make up for single targeting spells with elemental techniques.

Edit:

Characters will also have elemental affinities. So while they're open to all spells, having your Shock-proficient character cast Water spells mayn't be the best idea. 

 

[kerbonklin]

Maybe all of my spells could be AoE or All Targeting (reduce list from 7 per element to 4 or so) and just make up for single targeting spells with elemental techniques.

Edit:

Characters will also have elemental affinities. So while they're open to all spells, having your Shock-proficient character cast Water spells mayn't be the best idea. 

Or use scope changes with damage alterations based on the selected scope. It'll lessen the load even more.

 

[Rello]

If I can find a scope changing script that's compatible with YEA Battle engine, I'll probably invest in that. Easily half the load. 

 

[Alexander Amnell]

Characters will also have elemental affinities. So while they're open to all spells, having your Shock-proficient character cast Water spells mayn't be the best idea. 

I don't understand this approach, if you want to have a game where the characters are "cookie-cutter" and the player can choose what they want to progress in why put limits on it as well? (I prefer the method where characters are "unique" and varied to each other but making them proficient in certain things as a way to de-rail the player from playing a certain way while still giving him/her access to whatever abilities the want as an illusion of customization is kind of a practice in futility in my opinion).

 

[kerbonklin]

If I can find a scope changing script that's compatible with YEA Battle engine, I'll probably invest in that. Easily half the load. 

Tsuki has two scope-scripts that work hand-in-hand. One allows scope change and the other does damage modifiers,  However it might not work properly with various target-cursor type scripts.

@Alexander, games usually have element affinity-based characters due to story related reasons. It also helps plan more unique skill setups and character-roles for them. Say an earth character cannot use wind attacks, but can somewhat combine with fire for some special mixed attacks. However sticking to earth is generally stronger and easier until you find out advanced mixes may be better later on in the game.

Like Golden Sun for example. Most people will stick with pure Earth (Venus) Djinni on Isaac/Felix/Matthew (earth-affinity characters), but if you take the time to mix up every element Djinni, you can actually get better stats than just single elements. (Which is really complicated to properly mix them)

 

[Omnimental]

I don't think it matters how many skills there are so much as how many are available to each actor.  If I need to scroll down through three menu screens to find the skill I want in the middle of combat, I'm quickly going to get fed up with the game.

 

[Rello]

I don't understand this approach, if you want to have a game where the characters are "cookie-cutter" and the player can choose what they want to progress in why put limits on it as well? (I prefer the method where characters are "unique" and varied to each other but making them proficient in certain things as a way to de-rail the player from playing a certain way while still giving him/her access to whatever abilities the want as an illusion of customization is kind of a practice in futility in my opinion).

Because I like games that do that. Final Fantasy XII, and the Digital Devil Saga did it that way and I enjoyed it. That's why. 

And sometimes people just don't like characters and, for that reason, don't put them into their party. I frickin' hated Yuna in Final Fantasy X and never included her, but I was able to balance that out by spreading around some of the white magic to other characters. Sure, Auron wasn't build for casting and following his respective route doesn't make him a better one, but he was still able to toss out that Curaga if I needed him to. 

 

[kerbonklin]

I don't think it matters how many skills there are so much as how many are available to each actor.  If I need to scroll down through three menu screens to find the skill I want in the middle of combat, I'm quickly going to get fed up with the game.

Here's a tip. Never play FF8. You will have like 10 pages of 4 skills on each page. Finding the one you want with an ATB system is a pain unless you memorize your lists, or move the skills you use most to the first and second pages.

 

[Rello]

Here's a tip. Never play FF8. You will have like 10 pages of 4 skills on each page. Finding the one you want with an ATB system is a pain unless you memorize your lists, or move the skills you use most to the first and second pages.

I think a big part of that was simply that each page only had 4 options... heck, even with 15 spells it was a pain in the arse...

 

[Alexander Amnell]

Here's a tip. Never play FF8. You will have like 10 pages of 4 skills on each page. Finding the one you want with an ATB system is a pain unless you memorize your lists, or move the skills you use most to the first and second pages.

You used spells in final fantasy 8? For more than just stat boosting? That really would be a pain.

 

[Hesufo]

I seriously don't see why you need so many elements. You can easily reduce them to 3 or 4, and I'm sure it would have zero negative effect on your gameplay.

 

[Rello]

Also, I should probably add that Spells are sort of supplementary skills. Anybody who has played Final Fantasy VI will know what I'm talking about- each character has their own pool of skills they have on their own (in a pseudo class sort of way), and then spells can be taught to anybody at any time.

Edit:

I seriously don't see why you need so many elements. You can easily reduce them to 3 or 4, and I'm sure it would have zero negative effect on your gameplay.

 

It's what I'm comfortable with, I guess. When I think of RPGs with a low number of elements (typically Flame, Frost, and Shock), they're usually WRPGs, and I always found the way WRPGs treated magic was boring and lacking. I like the idea of smacking someone with a pillar of stone equally appealing as a fireball or bolt of lightning. The Poison element is simply because I've been playing a lot of Borderlands 2 recently.