Too many States?

OM3GA-Z3RO

Wounded Seraphim
Veteran
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
826
Reaction score
181
Primarily Uses
My team and I have been discussing about the games variety of states/buffs and both of them came to a conclusion saying that we have too many states and adding more will just break the game, a few of us like having a variety of states that can add strategy to the battles so I wanna ask...

Is there such thing as too many states that can break a game?
 

Lars Ulrika

I punch Therefore I am Harvest the land Taking the
Veteran
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
1,363
Reaction score
405
First Language
French
Primarily Uses
N/A
I don't think so, it just depends on how you use it. If you have 230929309 poison types with a specific potion for each sure it's gonna be tedious for the player but if it's states for strategic purposes and make some original game mechanics why not. 
 

Alexander Amnell

Jaded Optimist
Veteran
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Messages
3,404
Reaction score
1,733
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
   It depends entirely on how organized you are in game. If you have, say, 100+ negative states that require different items to cure then that's to much. The way I do it though in game is by having different state groupings. For instance in game there are two base types of poison, hemotoxin and neurotoxin, though each class of toxin has multiple states in it that are inflicted by different enemies with varying effects that mach their class, but are healed by the same two antitoxins so that the player isn't overwhelmed or confused. I also have each state in the hemotoxin class have a drop of blood as a background and the neurotoxin has the paralysis thing in the background of its icon, so that players can instantly discern what type of item is needed to cure a state even if it is a new state so that they don't waste turns trying to cure it and using the wrong item.

   Personally I love having a lot of states, I enjoy not necessarily knowing every little thing that particular states do to my party because of shear variety, you just need to make sure that the states are classed in a way that the player can easily identify what item/skill is needed to cure them. Having 100's of state is fine, having 100's of state curing items is not.
 

Mouser

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Aug 19, 2012
Messages
1,245
Reaction score
264
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
There can be too much of ANYTHING in a game.

Playability is >>> just about everything else. How steep a learning curve are you willing to put your players through? The more 'strategic' you make combat, or anything else in the game for that matter, the more there is to learn and the longer it will take players to get up to speed. In some games, that's a Good Thing [games like the X series come to mind], but for others, not so much.

How different are these states? If you see two or three (or more) that are doing essentially the same thing, then there's an area you can probably condense. At the end of the day there's only so many things you can do to a Battler: the rest is just a matter of degree.

If you have any doubts: err on the side of "less".
 

aozgolo

Perfidious Penny Pinching Pollywog
Veteran
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
80
Reaction score
25
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Organize them logically and keep the resolutions to the states simple, for example if you have 10 different incapacitate states such as Freeze, Petrify, Sleep, Stun, Scared, Stop, Paralyze, Web, etc. you can use all of them in the game to add flavor and differentiate how an enemy would incapacitate you BUT keeping the solutions simple keeps it manageable, you can even have independent items that resolve each one, but then you could have something like Final Fantasy's Esuna spell that relieves like 15 different states with a single spell.

Also try to keep it familiar, basically while you can create NEW states, don't create a new state where an old one would work just as well.

I don't think too many states is bad as long as they feel different either in terms of their effect, duration, or even animation.
 

OM3GA-Z3RO

Wounded Seraphim
Veteran
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
826
Reaction score
181
Primarily Uses
Well it was just a thought, I realized I don't have a huge arsenal of states anyway after clearing away the vanilla states that won't be used, I will just add more states for some more strategic moments in boss phases.
 

Clord

Nya~
Veteran
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
2,358
Reaction score
385
Primarily Uses
I think there should generally be "Cures all status effects expect <insert list here>" like items.


Having states like Riposte from South Park game can add so much to combat and should not be simple to remove with a simple low cost spell (South Park game's combat system is not executed that well so it is next to useless there.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

OM3GA-Z3RO

Wounded Seraphim
Veteran
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
826
Reaction score
181
Primarily Uses
I personally loved SP's playstyle it was fresh.
 

Clord

Nya~
Veteran
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
2,358
Reaction score
385
Primarily Uses
Yeah but it was obviously designed to be unbalanced which is fine expect when boss in Hardcore difficulty hardly gets to even act.


This goes nicely to another point, too powerful bleeding effects.


We are going off-topic at this rate so yeah, that's about it.
 

richter_h

Eh? Sweetroll?
Veteran
Joined
Apr 26, 2013
Messages
598
Reaction score
1,032
First Language
Indonesian
Primarily Uses
N/A
My team and I have been discussing about the games variety of states/buffs and both of them came to a conclusion saying that we have too many states and adding more will just break the game, a few of us like having a variety of states that can add strategy to the battles so I wanna ask...

Is there such thing as too many states that can break a game?
No. Not really if you can manage the states and their use.

Consider this: If you want to make certain actors/enemies to have their own "buff/debuff placers", you should make one for them. If you want to make different poison effects based on magnitude and actors/enemies type, make one. If you want to make different disables/curses duration, make one.

You have 999 slots of free states and the default one (when you open new project) gives you some. Be creative, and use them wisely; you'll find some of the states aren't used often, so think again before you make new states.

For example, I've worked on a game that uses lots of states with various effects, magnitude and duration even their stacking effects. To make it efficient, I decided to 'generalize' some state that will be used widespread (mostly on regeneration from potions; I use state for HP regeneration effect). And since there are many actors that have their own style of buffs/debuffs, I made states to fit their style.

Of course I keep them clean and balance the game often so the states won't break the game so hard.

tl;dr if you sure you can manage the states and balance them with the system, the game won't break (so hard). :D

Cheers,
 

Kyutaru

Software Engineer & Ninja
Veteran
Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Messages
156
Reaction score
56
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
No such thing as too many states.  D&D alone has like 30 different poisons.  States add depth to combat beyond simple damage exchange.  If you go for tons of states, you can potentially create an EXTREMELY involved strategic RPG.  Heck, Magic the Gathering is one of the best strategy games around and creatures get new "states" every single expansion.  How you decide to build your deck will determine whether you can handle that Double-strike Flying Trample Regenerating Protection from Black Hexproof creature or not.
 

Misaki

Pikalyze
Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
156
Reaction score
26
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Many, many states are interesting to have. It's a great thing to have a variety of buffs and debuffs, so the players will have more challenges to tackle if a particular enemy has a state buff or debuff skill, or pick up different tactics with different varieties of states.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Latest Threads

Latest Posts

Latest Profile Posts

Pootscooter wrote on Pharonix's profile.
Hey @Pharonix, just wondering what you're up to lately and if you've had an opportunity to check out the LTBS thread in the past few days...(a couple of us could really use your expertise). Hope you are well and Happy Thanksgiving!
Anyone know the best size image to put in signature?
Well, the local collections agency is hiring... bleh. I'm not rude enough for them to hire me. Even the people they collect FOR don't like dealing with them. >.>
EA: "Kids are buying currency, not using money to gamble. It shouldn't be illegal!"
Me: "So... kids should be allowed into casinos to buy poker chips and not spend them at the blackjack table? Pretty sure, even buying currency used to gamble is illegal for children."
Been hard at work in photoshop working with MOG scripts for main menu & victory result screens, might do all my maps and Npc chatter this week too!

Forum statistics

Threads
105,500
Messages
1,014,214
Members
137,155
Latest member
diegodevin
Top