TotalBiscuit discusses the topic "What's in a Game?" + Narratives

kerbonklin

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I feel this is a very important subject and topic that everyone here should definitely listen to, especially to those who are making RM games / devs. (This uses very recent AAA games as references)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bvX4hzqcqc

*Taken from video description*

TotalBiscuit discusses what makes a game, a game including the involvement of the player, the concept of overcoming adversity and the difference between a game and a virtual installation.

Please share your thoughts and insights after watching.

P.S. to anyone who actually likes Dark Esther, please bare with it anyways, it's worth it.
 

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Dear Esther was probably my most emotional gameplay session ever in my life so far. I recently tried to replay it with Oculus Rift and let me tell you, experience was even more intensified.


I understand TB doesn't mean that Dear Esther is a bad game but that he doesn't consider it as a game.
 
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Kaelan

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He means that it's not a game because a game is interactive, and you don't actually do anything in Dear Esther besides holding the "move forward" key for the whole duration of the game. I'm inclined to agree with him on that, though I think he didn't quite get to the main issue here.

I don't think that the problem with it is that it doesn't have any failure state - there are plenty of visual novels which I would still consider games. Unlike Beyond, in those types of games, the choices are often all equivalently "valuable" from the point of view of the game, so none of them can really be considered success/failure states; they're just different branches of the story, only one of which you get to see per playthrough, none of which are considered "the good version/success" or "the bad version/failure". The fact that you still have choice there is, to me, what makes them still be games. The problem with Dear Esther, I think, is that it doesn't have any meaningful choice. You can't make any decisions which alter your experience of the game, making it no different than a book or a movie in content. Interactivity (which really boils down to player choice), to me, is the essence of what a game is; if that is absent, then what remains can't be considered a game. On this issue, I completely agree with TB's stance.

On the other hand, I disagree with TB on the point that all games should be aiming for a balance, or an equal marriage between narrative and mechanics. I think there's a spectrum between those two, and a game can fall anywhere on that spectrum and still be "ideal". Sure, there's plenty of new, interesting ideas that haven't been done at all yet which would, in fact, make great games, if they explored and took advantage of being right in the middle of that spectrum. I don't doubt that at all, the example he mentioned with Brothers is a testament to that. But I don't think taking any particular existing game and moving it from wherever it is on this spectrum to any other place, be it the middle or anywhere else, will inherently make the game any better.

Take The Stanley Parable, for example. It has essentially no gameplay mechanics. Other than very rare, occasional instances of you being able to click on things, there is no interactivity in the game besides being able to move. The difference between that and Dear Esther though, is there's a huge variety of choices you can make just by moving, reacting to the environment and reacting to what the narrator is saying, and the consequences of those choices make a very big difference in how you experience the game. I would definitely consider it a game. Would the game have been better served by having more mechanics, though? Would it really have been better if you had more buttons to press or menus to navigate to do the same thing? I don't think it would. The whole simplicity of it is part of what makes the game's message so strong in the first place. For that particular game, having very little interaction is exactly what works out to be the most effective at achieving the experience the designer was trying to convey in the first place.

That's a game that goes pretty much as far as possible in the direction of pure narrative while still maintaining enough interactivity and choice to be a game.

On the other hand, you have fighting games. That's the exact opposite side of the spectrum: there is no narrative. When it does exist, it's of no consequence to the contents of the actual game and is completely optional. The actual meat of the game is completely devoid of story. It literally is nothing but a collection of mechanics. And yet, as plenty of people can attest, they're also still incredibly deep, engaging and valuable experiences, with no narrative (or no narrative of any consequence) at all. Would they be any better, fulfilling or engaging if they had better narratives? I don't really think so. That's not the point of those games, and it's not why people enjoy them.
 
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orochii

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It has essentially no gameplay mechanics.
Moving counts as a gameplay mechanic. More if you realize that it works as the interface between the choices the player can make (even if it's pretty much trial-error from what I've seen). After all, any game mechanic is a way to convey the player have an impact on his game experience. So, even if it is just moving, the game is done in a way so it isn't necessary anything else. Well, besides pushing buttons.

I don't know anything of Dear Esther... but if everything the player can do in the game is moving, and that only mechanic doesn't makes any difference, because it only makes story go further, it isn't really interactive. It's a book where you pass the page by pressing your W or Up-arrow button. Or both for EXTREEM SPEED!!

So, it is enjoyable? Certainly, if what it has to offer is your cup of coffee. Have you people never got touched by books? There's a lot of touchy books ~<3.

I think these questions are pretty much impossible to answer correctly, but can make you think on how you want to make your personal approach.

So, I don't know, TB's answer is fine, not right, not false, it's interesting and fine,

Orochii Zouveleki
 

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