Trapper class mechanics... engaging?

[Manofdusk]

While planning out my classes, I discovered that I couldn't really clearly define what one of them would do so I created a new class, the Trapper. The trapper is a "rogue" class archetype, defined by dealing burst damage and having little to no sustainable damage outside that (opposed to warriors who have sustained damage but no burst and mages who tend to focus more on exploiting enemy weaknesses).

The thing about the trapper is that it is nearly useless after the first round of combat (I'm using subclasses so its not as big of a problem as that might normally be) but the first round is where the trapper shines. Their abilities are self buffs usable only outside of combat (as well as an ability that can initiate a random encounter (including rare ones with a higher probability) immediately). These buffs run out quickly (about 30 steps) and expire on the 1st action but replace your "attack" skill with an "activate" skill that (If I can figure out how to do it) will activate whatever "base" trap you have set with all of the modifications you have to it (for example, an electrified snare would damage one random foe with electricity, bind them, and shock them, while a spiked boulder would hit all foes with a high critical chance). The tentative damage result for this first turn hit is generally 30% of max hp or 4x normal damage (whichever is higher). Also, enemies cannot be struck by more than one activate skill in a battle (to prevent 4 trappers insta-gibbing everything).

The question is, is this a class that players (as in you, if you were playing) would enjoy using or would it just be "equip this class to grind"? My aim is to make this class something in which the player can make strategic out of battle choices. What can I do to make this class as fun as possible?

 

[RetroBoy]

The "Ranger" and "Scout" in my game are essentially my "Trapper" Class(s). However, because I am using a Tactical Battle System they can place physical traps on the battlefield that enemies trigger if they move (or are moved onto) one of them.

As for "useless after the first round" that sounds like a big player deterrent. Generally people get a greater dopamine hit if there is a pay-off you work towards. Rather than a premature ending. Just ask my girlfriend.

 

[nomotog]

How long do your combats last? It can be a very different thing if your battles last 3 rounds Vs 20.

You can maybe mitigated the feeling of uselessness by tilting abilities towards lasting effects. DoTs, or status effects. Particularity status effects that can be further exploited by other abilities. Something like freezing coupled with fire attacks that deal more damage to frozen enemies.The idea is to set up a lasting reminder that the attack you made turn 1 still has a impact. (Balance wise a good opening can be powerful it just might not feel that way to the player.)

I like this idea, and ya I will mainly use it well grinding. (With most RPGs grinding is a good 70% of the game, so that is not a bad thing.) I really like it because it shakes up grinding. Your doing more outside the battles and starting battles off in more ways. It makes the grinding better. At least in my head.

 

[Manofdusk]

Well, the battles themselves are fewer and further between (roughly 100-150 steps... maybe more) but tend to last a bit longer on average. However, trapper skills are meant to cut down the time it takes to actually complete a battle by around 30%-50% (as well as being able to initiate them more or less at will).

 

[nomotog]

Well, the battles themselves are fewer and further between (roughly 100-150 steps... maybe more) but tend to last a bit longer on average. However, trapper skills are meant to cut down the time it takes to actually complete a battle by around 30%-50% (as well as being able to initiate them more or less at will).

It dose sound like your intending the class to be more grind focused then I imagined. As way to make your random battles faster (more predictable is what I worry). I was imaging it as a way to make random battles more diverse with more start states. If it is just about making grinding fast, that dose sound a little dull.

I played around with making an ability like the one you described. It's a skill that you use from the menu to put yourself into a "ambush" state that lets you use different trap skills at the start of the battle. I found it was only as fun as the traps I could use with it. So far I don't have neat traps (or any neat monsters well I am at it.)

 

[Wavelength]

Gonna be brutally honest with you: this sounds horrible. This would definitely be an "equip me to grind" class because it's not hitting any of your other intended aesthetics.

• The choice you make outside combat (which trap to set, presumably) can't be very strategic because you don't know what kind of encounter you're going to have next. Strategy is where you make plan decisions ahead based on solid information. Without that information, decisions made in advance are either inconsequential (if most traps will work on most creatures approximately as well as any other trap) or bad RNG influence (if certain types of traps will work on certain creatures far better than other types of traps).
• The fact that (if I understand correctly) the Trapper can only Activate their trap once, and can't reset it during combat, means that when the player does see the opportunity to make a cool strategic decision, they simply won't be able to do it.
• Timing (in the sense of whether to use a resource or hold it back for a few turns) is usually a nifty element of RPG combat, but having t he buff expire after the first turn of combat means that there's no timing decision to make. The correct answer is always "Activate it".
• Even if subclasses help a Trapper be "not completely useless" after the first round of combat, can you honestly say it's fun to have a "not completely useless" character on your team in RPG combat? I can't.
• Additionally, since the Trapper will presumably be weaker than the other characters after Turn 1, are you sure that she has actually cut down the time it takes to complete a battle at all?
• Outside of grinding situations where the player would use the "initiate a RE immediately" skill, you are asking players to keep setting traps every 30 steps they take or so on the map when they have a Trapper in their party, even though with a low RE rate of "every 100-150 steps" that trap will only have about a 25% chance of doing anything before it wears off. If this is free to do, you have essentially created a lot of busywork for your player to do... over and over and over again. If it costs a resource (MP or items) to do, the player is usually going to be wasting that resource and that's going to feel bad.

When I think of a trapper, I think of the exact opposite of "burst damage". I think of someone who carefully sets up traps, even as combat moves on, and then uses those traps later on to gain a big tactical advantage. If you're willing to take the opposite tack of having the Trapper start combat out fairly weak but steadily gain power as combat flows, I would recommend creating a Trapper class that sets traps which do nothing immediately but trigger on enemies once a certain condition has been fulfilled by that enemy (such as use a physical attack, heal an ally, strike an elemental resistance, etc. - it can be different for each type of trap!). Once triggered, an effect is done to that enemy, and the enemy is marked for the rest of combat in a way that the Trapper or her whole party can take advantage of. For example, a Freezing trap might deal Ice damage to the enemy when triggered, but it would also leave a mark that makes it impossible for that enemy to Evade your party's attacks (if you want it to aid the party), or perhaps a mark that increases the damage the Trapper does to that enemy with her knife skills (if you want it to aid the Trapper).

You can still have some of the "preparation in advance" mechanics outside of battle such as laying a certain trap in advance and manually triggering an RE ("Snap the Trap"?); perhaps you just select a trap outside of battle (without needing to reset it every X steps) and on the first turn of battle, assuming you started the battle using that manual trigger, you're allowed to automatically activate that trap on any one enemy - possibly with reduced effect - even if that enemy hasn't met the required condition. This gives you a nice little power spike on turn 1 that came from preparing, and allows the class to be good at grinding, without overloading their kit into this dynamic or making them seem "blah" for the rest of the battle.

If it's more important to you to have a burst-type class rather than a Trapper per se, I'd recommend a traditional Rogue or a Burst Mage type of character. The Rogue could use "backstabs" which automatically Crit for big damage but require a few turns of setup to use again once she has used it once (as she's, you know, revealed herself). The Burst Mage (which doesn't need to be called a Mage per se - could be a Shaman, a Druid, a Dark Priest, whatever) could have an Energy mechanic or similar which allows her to use very high-powered spells when her Energy is full, but then needs a few turns for that Energy to recharge before she can use another very high-powered spell. She could start off each battle with full energy, allowing for the same Turn 1 burst that your current Trapper offers, but allowing her to have other high moments throughout the battle (even though she might be less useful overall after Turn 1 because of her low power on turns where her Energy is still recharging).

 

[fireflyege]

Most buffs being able to activated outside of battle is the real problem here. I would be frustrated for playing such a character where random encounters happen and you renew the buff everytime you kill something. That is just plain torture.

Either way, I do not think %30 health damage would be balanced espicially for bosses and the character having little to no damage apart from its super moves would leave that character with nothing to do apart from waiting cooldown or generating resources if it can. To combat that, I gave my character versatility, with dodge buffs and ability to do further damage with combo attacks. I think you should follow the same path, because the character would feel useless.

 

[Manofdusk]

When I think about a trapper class, I think about the Deception series by Tecmo. For those who don't know, the protagonist has no attack ability but instead sets traps and uses him/her self as bait to lure enemies into them.

@Wavelength

The idea is to have 1 big hit that is bigger than any other hit that any other class could provide by using the same resources, but its one and done (I mean, I already have a rogue class like the one you mentioned and most all mages function similarly to either the "Burst Mage" or the "snowball trapper" (where the class is weak at first but gains considerable power later in the fight) in one way or another). I'm trying to figure out a mechanic that will give this class a unique aesthetic when compared to the other rogue classes while making that "one and done" feel extremely satisfying.

So... what if the initial self buff could be placed inside or outside of battle, removed after battle (so you have the span of the entire battle to use your trap) and only activated once per combat? I think this by itself addresses many of the bullet points.

What about "battle objects" placed in troop rosters that can't be killed (and don't need to be to win) that activate on either side under certain circumstances? An example would be an iron maiden that clamps shut on anyone (friend or foe) that is affected by the "knockback" state.

Perhaps even a special buff could be placed on battle objects by trappers, called "rigged". Rigged battle objects always target the trapper's enemies. The "rigged" buff would increase the target's atk and mat by 100% or so, meaning that, while anyone could, say, get a spike trap to go off, a trapper would be able to do more with them. (incidentally, what would be a good ratio of battles to have battle objects in? 50%?)

 

[nomotog]

Having the ability spawn battle field objects sounds good. They have persistence so the ability will impact the battle long after turn 1. They can be triggered at different time giving you more choice in when and how to use them. They also fit thematically with the idea of traps.

Only thing I don't know is how you would program them.

 

[ShadowHawkDragon]

I will say this, an effect that is set before the battle for massive damage would never make me feel 'satisfied' even if it took off over half their health; I didn't do anything but press a button and move a few steps. Nevermind being useless in prolonged boss-fights

you compare your idea to Deception but forget what makes the game engaging. Traps are not just one use per battle, you keep planting new ones as the battle/mission goes on. The main restraint is the 'downtime' where you are but a weak girl with no weapon of any kind. However you are not just sitting there unable to do a thing, you are buying time as you wait for that ultimate combo to finish setting up.

Since it is your inspiration, I am going to interpret the base mechanics of Deception for a turn based battle keeping the feel of 'setup' and 'combos'.

During your turn you choose a trap and a valid target, this 'marks' the target. The mark displays a counter that ticks down, triggering once it hits 0. Each target can be effected by multiple traps, each with its own trigger times. However you can only have one instance of each trap active at a time.

Traps:
Bearclaw ~ downtime: 2 turns, effect: small damage but 'restrains' the target (can't use physical attacks and all attacks received auto-hit)
Gondola ~ downtime: 5 turns, effect: massive damage but low accuracy
Iron maiden ~ downtime: 7 turns, effect: instantly kills if the target is at low health, otherwise 'stuns' for 2 turns but the target cant be harmed through any other means.

Bearclaw on its own is a useful quick effect and Iron Maiden too can be used alone. But time a Bearclaw to land with the Gondola, immediately followed by iron maiden and "ouch!"; now THAT is satisfying. It even fits your concept of "one and done". You can still have versions of these traps set before battle (with shorter downtimes) allowing for a faster wombo from start. The difference is you can still setup the wombo during battle it just takes longer.

 

[Frozen_Phoenix]

One idea for a trapper character in a rpg with the rpg maker battle system:

Create trap skills. Traps last X amount of turns (or indefinitely) and each enemy has a chance of activating a trap on their turn applying the trap effects.

Example: A bear trap skill. Lasts until an enemy activates it. Enemies have 20% chance of activating it on their turn, so on each enemy turn you do a probability check to see if they stepped on it, if it is true then the trap is removed and the enemy that set it off takes damage.

You can then create states that manipulate trap activation chance or other skills whatever. Or use other conditions to activate the trap like if an enemy attacks a certain party member etc.

 

[fireflyege]

@ShadowHawkDragon and @Frozen_Phoenix are making good suggestions, now hear mine.

I think traps must be engaging but they need to actually feel like it. Why are we letting traps do their jobs on their own? Think of it, what trapper would carelessly set traps? Sometimes you get to check the traps for the spoils. So I think most traps would do little, and provide a secondary effect where the player needs to use a specific skill to activate it.

For example, instead of this:
-Fire Trap: Enemy has %50 chance to activate the trap. Deals 100 damage.

You can do this:
-Conflagration Trap: Enemy has %50 chance to activate it. Deals 25 damage and applies ''Conflagration Exposure'' to the target. When Trapper attacks the enemy and only the trapper's attack -but you can play around that one but my aim is forcing the trapper to do more things than just trapping- would trigger the ''Conflagration Exposure'' then proceed to deal 125 more damage.

As you can see Conflagration Trap deals more damage than the Fire Trap, because it is harder to execute and needs the Trapper to actually be in the battle, and contribute to see the whole benefit. That also makes the Trapper to feel more satisfying. You can make most traps like Freezing Trap, Electric Trap and such.

Think Caitlyn from LoL, her passive lets her automatically Headshot people with an increased range if they get caught in her traps, the traps do nothing by rooting and providing vision for a little time though, but when the traps get a target when Caitlyn's there the Headshot damage is increased even more, and the numbers become just perfect and Caitlyn is the definition of trapper with a speciality in zone control, no need to wonder why.

I will also write useful skills here.

-Weak Spot (Passive)
With each trap proc, Trapper has %15 chance to ''spot'' the enemy, and her next Expose Weakness will deal %50 more damage against that target, any damage with exposure bonuses included.

-Expose Weakness (Autoattack)
A not so simple autoattack that is able to do more things with enemies being exposed to certain things.

-Minefield (Cooldown: 10 turns)
Makes the whole battleground a minefield for 10 turns. Each enemy has %50 chance to proc one of those endless mines and take %25 of Trapper's primary stat as damage.

-Conflagration Trap (Cooldown: 2 turns AFTER the trap detonates)
Puts a conflagration trap to the ground for 5 turns. When enemies attack the party they have %25 chance to proc the trap. When they proc the trap, they take %25 of Trapper's primary stat as damage and get ''Conflagration Exposure'', when Trapper uses Expose Weakness against that target the target takes %200 of Trapper's primary stat as bonus damage.

-Freezing Trap (Cooldown: 4 turns AFTER the trap detonates)
Puts a freezing trap to the ground for 5 turns, it procs with %15 chance and when it procs it deals %75 of Trapper's primary stat as damage and get ''Freezing Exposure'', when Trapper uses Expose Weakness it deals the same damage and freeze the target for 1 turn. When the target is frozen ANY physical attack will deal %150 damage. (Hello teamplay.)

-Electro Trap (Cooldown: 6 turns)
Puts an energy generator to the ground for 2 turns. This trap has a %75 proc chance and does not get consumed when it does. If enemies get hit by this trap 3 times, they become stunned in place for 1 turn. When it procs it deals %50 of Trapper's primary stat as damage, and when they get stunned they get ''Electro Exposure'' which will let Expose Weakness prolong the stun time and be instant.

I may have overloaded the skills but I think they are the way to go.

 

[Manofdusk]

I think mayhap I didn't fully grasp Wavelength's post until ShadowHawkDragon made his. I like these suggestions (especially the countdown to damage as it's mechanically different enough from the other rogue classes).

I actually like the "counter" proc states too, but I think I'll save those for the Inquisitor.