Unpopular Opinions: The Thread

Discussion in 'General Lounge' started by Lothloran, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    While I don't really condone either... Smoking is far less terrible than all the car exhaust you end up inhaling walking along the side of a street. And, less cancer inducing.

    If you're going to complain about drinks that ruin your brain, we should add caffeine ones as well.
     
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  2. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    Now that drinks are brought up, lemme add another one.

    I'm not a fan of drinking coffee.
     
  3. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @TheoAllen : I actually agree big time. To me HD is just a waste of space which also exponentially increases the cost of a game or program, and in all honestly only about 10% of players actually care about it.

    Mine:
    -Horror games in RPG Maker are not good. I've just never liked them.

    Also I've never gotten the appeal of monster collecting games. Maybe it's because I was too old when Pokeman came out to care about it or something. To me I want a game to have a good plot not just collect monsters and become the most powerful monster tamer.
     
  4. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    I like how the general format for this thread is:

    "People are going to hate me/kill me/eat me/set me on fire/hunt me down etc for this, but..." [Insert opinion that most people are either okay with, shrug at, or otherwise are indifferent to]

    Anyway here's another of mine: I like Star Trek: Discovery. And the JJVerse movies.
     
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  5. Redeye

    Redeye Chronicles Creator Veteran

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    The Star Wars prequels are good. I'd even say they're better than the original trilogy.

    The only thing bad about them was some dialogue hiccups and only a small handful of characters / relationships, and that's it.
     
  6. EthanFox

    EthanFox Veteran Veteran

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    Well... You posted in the right thread? :biggrin:
     
  7. peq42_

    peq42_ Yeet Veteran

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    python sucks and I don't get why people like the language so much
     
  8. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Redeye : I agree with you. I even thought Episode 7 wasn't too bad. Now Episode 8 I'm still trying to figure out just what I watched.

    But then again, the Star Wars movies were so hyped up that there was no way the prequels and Episodes 7 - 9 will ever live up to anyone's expectations.
     
  9. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    Unpopular opinions:

    *Star Wars, regardless of episode... is insanely overrated and is "mediocre" at best. The plot is very basic and predictable.
    *Star Trek, by and large, is very boring Sci Fi. Except for Deep Space 9, which was the only Trek to ever tackle something interesting... and that was how "Federation Values" hold up in a war that absolutely punishes those values... As well as to actually tackle the horrors of war in Star Trek (something it has never done before or since).
    *Superhero TV shows are, by and large, complete garbage. Plotlines could wrap up in 3 episodes, but they stretch them to 12 or 24 with pointless drama. No, I don't care if they're DC or Marvel characters. They suffer the same issue.
    *Superhero movies suffer from the same issues as the Superhero TV shows, except the writing is even worse.
    *People who drink Starbucks, by and large, are not that great with their money. Who pays $5 for mediocre coffee except fools easily parted from their money?
    *Most music in video games is pretty terrible and forgettable. So forgettable and unimportant, in fact, that I tend to play most of my games muted, with music turned off... while I watch Netflix or Hulu. Yes, that's right. Gordon Ramsey screaming at stupid chefs beats whatever music you've put in your game.
    *Graphics are only important to people who don't realize they're being hypocrites. In 10 years from now, the "amazing" graphics that exist now will look like garbage compared to whatever we're seeing on our HoloDecks or whatever. If you can't even appreciate different styles of graphics, what on earth are you doing with your life? HD doesn't matter... only the AESTHETIC of your artwork matters. Realistic grass/trees/water doesn't matter at all. Players are desensitized to it within the first hour of gameplay and never look at it or comment on it again. Unless they're a reviewer.
    *If a reviewer comments on how "beautiful" graphics are... you can basically peg them as "paid review" quite easily. A person who wants to play a video game for fun won't care what it looks like, only that it's fun to play.
    *There is no difference between 30 fps and 60 fps so long as neither stutters. Both are quite smooth when software is optimized for use. Anyone who can claim to tell the difference, is either a liar, or knows too much about technical stuff and has become a snob.

    Okay, I'm ready. *Puts on Boxing Gloves*
     
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  10. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Tai_MT : You might have summed up why I couldn't stand Jessica Jones there. It was 13 episodes, but she could have wrapped it up in 5 or 6 easily. The others felt like they were just there to get 13 episodes and nothing more.

    BTW, I agree with you on the graphics actually, and most gamers I know do too. Though I actually like most video game music, at least music from the 80's/90's. Most today though aren't that good. I can recall the battle themes for most FF games up until and through 10, but after that I just forgot them as they weren't that good.
     
  11. HexMozart88

    HexMozart88 The Master of Random Garbage Veteran

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    It can be very hard to find good game music, yeah. Usually the gems I find are in really really obscure indie games. A lot of them just settle for "atmospheric sounds" which doesn't make me want to play the game at all. I wouldn't mute it, since mediocre music is better than none at all, but yeah, a lot of people don't really try musically or really with anything other than making your game look like real life. If I want a game that looks like real life, I'll go outside.
     
  12. EthanFox

    EthanFox Veteran Veteran

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    Here's an unpopular opinion: I think 60fps gaming should be the standard framerate for all videogames, and I'm always disappointed when a game I'm looking forward to ends up being 30 (which, as you can imagine, results in a great deal of disappointment).

    I also get riled when people say "film is 24fps and that's fine", because the two things can't be directly compared like that.

    While a stable 30 is definitely better than an unstable 60, part of me wishes that we'd stayed at a stable 60 being the default, as it was in the 16-bit era; during the 32-bit era we saw a dip to ~15-20 which quickly hit 30, followed by a number of games hitting 60, and it felt like 60 might become the standard again, but it never happened. Ever since playing Virtua Fighter 2 I've felt this way.

    I've literally bought/not bought games for this reason. I didn't buy the recent Ratchet & Clank because the prior ones were 60 yet that one was 30 (and the developer made a public statement about how he felt people didn't care), so I didn't buy it as I don't want to support a move I see as regressive. I've bought consoles too; part of the reason I bought a Switch is because Nintendo have a semi-commitment to 60; I love it in games like Splatoon2 (in the actual battles; the lobby is 30). It's also the reason I love to play console games on the PC, because I can drop any graphical settings I need in order to try and hit a stable 60.

    I'm fully aware that the difference between 30 and 60 is not evident to some people. Like, even side-by-side, some people genuinely can't tell the difference, and I think this is a genuine thing. It just isn't visually evident to some. However, it's something I notice right away and it irks me.
     
  13. Ms Littlefish

    Ms Littlefish Dangerously Caffeinated Global Mod

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    It’s not even that a lot of game music is technically bad, technically a lot of it is fine. It’s just that it’s generic and unforgettable. Much of it lacks any sort of strong melodic or rhythmic identity. Not too dissimilar to the issues made about graphics, a lot of game music is “oooh, trombones and French horns go BLAT” and “big boom boom drum.” Those things are great, but what about the other important components of a song? Y’know? When it comes to both graphics and melodies, I’d take strong identity over the latest tech over and over again.
     
  14. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    @bgillisp

    I actually liked Jessica Jones (one of the only ones I enjoyed), because the premise was quite interesting (she's a broken hero who had basically been dominated by a villain for lots of years). However, it does suffer from the same problem. It's a really short series when you cut out anything unnecessary. There's enough there for about 6 episodes of plot. The rest just kind of exists. Because of this problem, I never watched beyond the first season of it.

    Even "Stranger Things" suffers from this massive issue. And "The Walking Dead". It's an issue with current TV show format. Not just superhero stuff. The difference is that Superhero stuff has a lot of places they can go with their content. Superheroes can take a break from their arc to just stop some bank robbers or something. Or, they can have an episode where they discover they have a new power and how to harness it. Lots of places for them to go with their content, and they tend to waste it on giving a bunch of side characters their own boring plots... or dragging out the main arc as long as possible... or coming up with a contrivance for why they can't just win immediately...

    @EthanFox

    Your post basically sums up exactly why I say that 30 or 60 fps doesn't matter and nobody notices it. You say you notice it, but give no details. You can't even describe what the difference is visually. I see this quite a lot. "It's not 60 fps, so I won't be playing it." Oh? If the game company had told you it was 60 fps, would you have noticed? How? Almost everyone who claims to be able to tell the difference are going entirely off of what the specs were told to them by the company.

    Here's the difference as I can tell:

    A "frame" is a frame of animation. You can best see this in action with older games. 3 frames for a walking cycle. 8 frames for spinning Cloud's sword in Final Fantasy 7 (the original). The game itself may be able to process 60 frames a second... But, the animation is only 8 frames.

    That's what the "snobs" don't tell you. If your walking cycle in a 3D AAA game only has 20 frames, what is the difference between a game that can process 30 fps or one that can process 60?

    NONE. Zero difference. This is why people can't tell the difference. Even if your processor can jack something up to 300 fps... you are still limited to the amount of frames used for any individual animation. All the 60 fps allows for is for "faster" animations. You can slap 60 frames into an animation instead of 30. But, honestly, do you need more than 30? Does a walking animation need more than 30? Heck, it rarely needs more than 20. How about an explosion? Does it need more than 30 frames? With as much crap as is obscured and how bright it usually gets... nah. It rarely even needs the 30, unless it's super complicated and pushes the limitations of the hardware. What about a bullet traveling from A to B? Does that need 60 frames? I'd wager it probably needs about 20 to get from your gun to the enemy, since bullets are supposed to travel pretty fast. It would need more if you slowed bullets down quite a lot, or had like bullet time or something.

    That's the dirty little secret.

    60fps only matters if EVERY ANIMATION IN YOUR GAME HAS 60 FRAMES. Most animations don't go beyond 20-25.

    So, unless there's "stuttering" in the game, players can't tell the difference between 30 and 60. Because, honestly, there is no actual difference. It's a number they throw out at people to entice them to buy games. "It has more frames per second, so it is inherently better!". No argument ever made about whether or not they even utilize those frames to their maximum potential. Because... even 60 fps games... yeah, they don't.
    ---
    More unpopular opinions:

    *Giant story arcs for series are dull. What ever happened to "episodic" content interspersed with the arc? I miss the days of a series being mostly "stand alone episodes" and then intersperse the occasional important episode that touched on the "overall arc" of the story. Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, X-Files, Batman The Animated Series, etcetera. Everything was, "problem of the week", and allowed the writers to be far more creative and audiences were allowed to have "favorite episodes" as a result. Quick, what's your favorite episode of a new series? Stranger Things? Walking Dead? Gotham? Do you have one? It's difficult to have one, when every episode is core to their overall arc. My favorite episode of Stargate SG-1 is the "groundhog day" episode because of how silly and funny and character revealing it becomes. My favorite episode of Stargate Atlantis is the one in which Rodney is dying and is slowly losing his mind as he does it, which is a fantastic character piece. Or, maybe the one where Rodney gets Ancient Powers (okay, I love Rodney, sue me) and tries to come to grips with them. My favorite episode of Batman The Animated Series is the one in which Harley Quinn and Ivy team up together to cause crimes and hilarity ensues. Or, maybe the one in which a random citizen decides he's had enough of Joker's crap and basically scares him with how serious he is about killing the Joker. What's my favorite episode of "The Walking Dead"? I don't know. I don't have one.
    *Games are at their best when they have a wonderful story to go along with them. A poorly written story often hinders the enjoyment of the game. A poorly explained setting does the same thing. Video games, by and large, serve as "wish fulfillment" for the player of one sort or another. When we're not interacting with a good story, we're actively trying to create our own out of what is there (like bragging about that one game of multiplayer where you went 42 and 0 and it was amazing!). There is little reason to play many games beyond a couple hours if there does not exist an engaging story. This is even true of MMOs. I have stuck with Final Fantasy 14 the longest of any other MMO I've ever played precisely because the story and setting and characters pulled me into the plot. I am not "the chosen one". I am one of many powerful people who just so happen to be trying to help better the world.
     
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  15. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    Okay time for another unpopular opinion I guess: Some claim that people can't tell the difference between 30fps and 60fps, but that's BS. While it can be difficult to tell the difference depending on the subject material, and maybe some can't tell the difference at all, I certainly can. I even made myself a quick throwaway app to view the two side by side, On a clean, black surface, it was very easy to tell which side had objects scrolling at 30 and which were scrolling at 60--both were traveling at the same number of pixels per second. While it's probably less detectable with complex images/backgrounds (like television) it's...annoying in games.

    Note: my vision is pretty terrible by most people's standards and I can still spot this difference.
     
  16. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    All FPS actually does is ALLOW a game to animate up to 60 frames of animation per second. Tracking movement of a projectile or object has more to do with it's speed within the engine as well as any "frame skips" used to actually cut down on processing.

    60 FPS is only useful if your game requires the engine actually process 60 frames of animation a second. Frequently. If your game does not need to... then it's only processing as few as it needs.

    Tell me, what's the difference in Peggle running at 60 fps and running at 30? No difference, you say? That's because there's little to animate and all animations are simple and don't require 60 frames be animated in a second.

    A lot of people equate "60 fps" to mean "renders graphics better". But, that's not really what it does. 60 fps allows you to process 60 frames of animation a second. Nothing more. Nothing less. It has no effect on games that do not require you process 60 frames of animation a second (pro tip: Most games do not require this level of processing. In fact, this level of processing is rather stressful on most hardware, which is why the 60fps thing is usually only a requirement for "set pieces" in most games, or cutscenes, and is largely left out of actual gameplay in order to preserve processing power for physics, lighting, shadows, player input, AI scripts, etcetera).

    I'm actually unclear with what difference you actually saw. Especially since you say the speed of pixels was the same, regardless.

    My question then becomes, "doesn't that mean the animation carries out the exact same regardless of FPS and thus there's no measurable difference?". As in... the animation was created either with 30 FPS in mind or 60 FPS in mind, and you either scaled the FPS up or down to "try to see the difference"?

    I mean, if your game needs to process 60 fps for something and you scale it back to 30... the animation will either slow or stutter trying to keep up with processing those same amount of frames. Or, in the opposite direction... just be able to render more animation frames without a stutter.

    So... I'm still not clear what actual difference people are claiming to see in the two. If you are given two games, side by side, neither has stutters or frame rate drops, one is 30 fps and the other is 60 fps... without being told which is which... could you tell the difference?

    I can't. Most people can't. Because... there really isn't a difference. The stuttering often comes from poor optimization or not working within the limitations of your processing power.
     
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  17. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    60fps was smoother, as each object's "jump" involved fewer pixels (+3 @ 60 vs +6 @30). Again, probably less distinguishable with complex/noisier graphics, but when everything looks clean, it's easy (for some of us, anyway) to spot.

    And yes, I actually mixed up the two windows and could immediately tell which one was running 30 due to the slightly choppier movement.
     
  18. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    Now here's the question. If no one told you which was running at which FPS, could you tell which was 30 and which was 60? I'd be interested to see the results of that study myself.

    But in all honestly @Tai_MT is probably right. The difference is very little and is usually only picked up on by those who are told it is running at 30 FPS. If you were not told what it was running at, odds are high it would be just a 50/50 guess which is it and the statistics would fall near 50/50 which would confirm what he is saying. If it were say 70 right 30 wrong then it wouldn't.

    But I'd be interested to see if there is an honest scientific study that did a proper double blind study of this myself.

    Edit: I did a little digging and it looks like the proper study has not been done yet. The best I could find was a graduate thesis written this year which checked to see if people can detect a shift from 30 FPS to 120 FPS and back, and it found a really high false alarm rate once the scene was not just some simple animations. As in, people were flagging it as having changed FPS when it did not really change FPS. So based on that it looks like if you really sit and stare at one animation and nothing else you might be able to tell the difference. But in a game with many animations and things going on at once, most people's perceived differences are false alarms, in fact they have about as many false alarms as real detections.

    I'll keep digging and see if I find more on this.

    Edit 2: BTW, here is something silly on this subject. In grad school we experimented with ray tracker algorithms for programming, and they ran at...I kid you not...a whopping 11 seconds per frame. And I didn't put those backwards, you literally waited 11 seconds between when you hit a key and the screen updated 1 frame. I think at that speed everyone could detect it.

    As an side, do you think an First person shooter at that speed would ever have someone complete a match? Or do you think everyone would quit due to boredom?
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
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  19. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    @bgillisp

    Probably depends on the type of "shooter". After all, you've got "Super Hot", which only shows any animation so long as you are moving. Everything is "Freeze framed" as long as you have no button inputs or movement.

    Though, for multiplayer, it would be unacceptable.
     
  20. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    I was assuming a game like Doom honestly. Still, it probably depends on the player. I played the PC version of FF7 (yes there was a PC version of FF7, released in 1998) on a PC that didn't meet the minimum requirements for CPU speed. It ran, though very slowly, and I could have probably read a book waiting for the ATB bar to fill. But I beat the game even with it playing that slowly...eventually.
     

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