Usage of terms like 'hell' in non-Christian worlds

[Verdelite]

Hello everyone,
so this is actually something that's been on my mind for a while, so I'd love to hear your input on this.

What's your opinion on using terms or phrases like "what the hell" in a setting that is non-Christian?
I'm not limiting this to Christian terms specifically but this was the first and most natural example that came to mind (and I can't come up with a more general term).

I consider these kind of phrases and idioms as part of the language and freely use them even in a fantasy setting where concepts like 'hell' might not even exist. To me, it feels way more forced and unnatural to invent a new term like "by Alacryphe'llior's flaming beard!" or something like because the unfamiliar term draws unneeded attention to it. I dislike it as it always distracts me whenever I encounter something like that UNLESS the origin of that term is a somewhat important part of the story. So in this specific example if religion or that Alaxxxxx god is an important part of the setting and not simply thrown into the world just to get rid of another phrase, I am okay with it.

But I can understand the notion that reading a word like 'hell' in a setting where it doesn't belong might be an immersion breaker for someone else; In fact, I had multiple people complain about my usage of these words.

I am interested in what the general consensus on this matter might be.
I'd be happy to hear your opinion on this!

 

[bgillisp]

I think it needs to fit the world. Using phrases from our society in a medieval world would be out of place. However, we would not use medieval sayings in our time either. So, I think you should edit phrases to fit the world, unless you want everyone in the world in your game to sound like they came from today.

 

[dragoonwys]

I agree that a phrase or terminology in general should fit the world. It would look awfully jarring using any terms in a setting where said technology or concept doesn't exist lol.

Though while not recommended, there is some leeway of course. When one doesn't have expanded info on something, it will obviously look less jarring because it just goes right over the head of the players.... if it's not REALLY out of place, 'computer databases' in castles anyone? Terms like 'what the hell' are still rather general so can get a pass majority of the time.

 

[CleanWater]

It depends...

Medieval folks speak like medieval folks. Techno Punk folks speak like Techno Punk folks. And so goes on...

The hell example is something more general, we have Makai in Japanese that translates as World of Demons, but translators simply put it as hell here. This don't break the mood of the game, because the general idea is kept (a place full of demons).

But if we had a word that is not fitting in the mood, this could lead to a immersion breaking. Like someone ordering a pizza in a medieval pub. The mood of a pub is ale, pork barbecue, fights, gambling.

 

[Cunechan]

Wwhale, there's quite some thing called world building and it really makes me cringe sometime when people act or talk 'out of their time'. Knights don't say, imagine it with some extreme accent "yo cool cat, wanna get wasted n pick up some chickz ?" (I have no idea how people talk, but you know what I mean).
In a world where no one even had the idea of some kind of god existing but using "Oh god/oh my god!/god help..." etc is unnatural and shows the dev didn't put much effort into creating the world, the people, culture, etc or being blind about it, which is really sad. Completely agree with
@CleanWater there. This is part of the world building, and it doesn't make sense if a medieval traveler suddenly talks to their friend as if they were in "Keeping up with the Kardashians" or something. I never even watched it lol
"by Alacryphe'llior's flaming beard!" reminded me so much of "oh my glob!" (adventure time) or "jegus!" (homestuck), hell yes, guys be creative and make it unique if you're not going for some thing we know or have in our world! Even if "Jegus" was just a typo of "jesus", but it's something.

 

[Milennin]

As long as it makes it easy to understand what's being said, I'm OK with it. Also, people could use the word in hell in a fantasy world, but that doesn't mean it would be a foreign concept to them just because it's set in another world. They might have their own version of hell that just happens to be called hell to keep things simple (or because the writer couldn't come up with an original name, but it'd still be okay).

Wwhale, there's quite some thing called world building and it really makes me cringe sometime when people act or talk 'out of their time'. Knights don't say, imagine it with some extreme accent "yo cool cat, wanna get wasted n pick up some chickz ?" (I have no idea how people talk, but you know what I mean).

Knights also wouldn't talk using modern English, yet nobody writes their RPG dialogues in old English, because it'd not only be a pain to write, but to read as well.

 

[gub]

Knights also wouldn't talk using modern English, yet nobody writes their RPG dialogues in old English, because it'd not only be a pain to write, but to read as well.

A great solution to this, that I'm using in my own game to preserve the feeling of ye olden times, is to use Early Modern English, seen in many of Shakespeare's writings. It's pretty easy to understand (imo) and a great way to keep the player feeling like they're in the time period.

 

[Cunechan]

Knights also wouldn't talk using modern English, yet nobody writes their RPG dialogues in old English, because it'd not only be a pain to write, but to read as well.

they don't even have to talk in old english (or any other language), but the dev should prevent expressions that are typical for our modern time. It doesn't even have to be the exact kind of language they are supposed to speak, the player should still understand. But sometimes it gives a special feeling when using some kind of language as @gub suggested, that's a cool idea! It's still up to the dev to decide the writing, but please keep in mind;

a knight talks like a knight, not like some 15 year old student in modern time.
Or some janitor doesn't talk like a poet (except it's his hobby or something, but you get what I mean).

There's a game that was really using the language and most expressions that are fitting to the settings time, and it was one of the best games I've played ("Die Reise ins All" from Trollface).

 

[Wavelength]

In cases where I want to suggest profanity but keep the language clean I like to replace words (my favorite that I've seen in a commercial game being 'Holy carp!'), but for neologisms or cases where the origin of a phrase would be completely alien to the game world (Good Samaritans, Lou Gehrig's disease, pinch hit, Veni Vidi Vici, frenemy, "Google it"), I generally try to remove the sentence entirely and get the sentiment across using a completely different sentence. For humorous, lighthearted games that are comfortable playing with the fourth wall, phrases that have been in common parlance for a long time (like "pinch hit") can be used straight if desired, and for more conspicuous phrases replacing the word can be fun ("I Boogled it but no results came up").

 

[XIIIthHarbinger]

I generally don't think there is a wrong or right answer, as it is very project dependent.

"Hell" works rather well to communicate a concept to English speakers, regardless of their religious orientation or lack thereof. If your game's world has something akin to "Hell", using the term "Hell" to describe it makes sense to a certain extent. As such similar methods of expression arising due to similar cultural backgrounds is understandable.

For example, religions like Hinduism & Buddhism have "hells" for all intents & purposes, so when those concepts are translated into English the word "hell" is used, because the concepts are similar enough to be understood by people raised in both cultural backgrounds. & when stories are told based on the religious imagery &/or concepts of either of those regions Europe or Asia, are translated for audiences of that other cultural background, the religious terminology of that culture is used, because the conceptual similarity is sufficient to be readily understood.

It's rather like how films with Akira Kurosawa & Toshiro Mifune were being borrowed from & in turn were borrowing from films with Clint Eastwood & John Wayne. Despite the vast cultural differences of the settings of their respective films the archetypes of "The Lone Gunman" & "The Lone Ronin" translate rather easily; because once you strip away the superfluous you are dealing with very similar concepts. So many westerns become Samurai films & many Samurai films become Westerns.

Simply put, as dissimilar as the society of your respective gameworld is, your game world's occupants will still be motivated & shaped by similar forces. Which is why in human history you have societies separated by literally thousands of miles, developing similar concepts & technologies, with no interactions between their respective societies.

 

[M.I.A.]

I agree with everyone!!

The context is what matters, but I also like the idea of "regionalizing".
You could replace 'hell' with 'Hades' or 'Elysian' or make up your own!!

Alternatives to "What the hell??" in a non-Christian world:
- "By the Gods below!!"
- "What in the name of Evil??"
- "Damned to Hades??"
- "Blasted, all things unholy!!"

One thing I love about building a theme/world, is finding ties that bind all society, no matter how new, old, or fragmented.
You can see this in Firefly.. when the say "Gorram!" as a "Damn!". It's fairly universal in use. Lots of walks of folks say it with expression.

Hope this is helpful!
-MIA

 

[kaukusaki]

What in Niflheim... I was going to add my few ¢ but everyone beat me to it. XP

 

[gstv87]

What's your opinion on using terms or phrases like "what the hell" in a setting that is non-Christian?
I'm not limiting this to Christian terms

I made up my own pantheon.

no, seriously.
I thought the same thing as you: "why do we call hell hell?..... how would other people call it?... what about valhalla? or stovokor?"
and it all unraveled from there.
I went from hell, to underworld, to night sky, to winter, to summer, to the summer harvest, to the olympic games, to war....

now I have like 20 diferent gods, and terms related to them.
even crests, invocations and devoted paladins.

 

[fireflyege]

Well, I can tell you some things to inspire you.

-Ara Fell used Abyss since the whole world there were floating islands so down below were seen as the Abyss. If you insult people you can say ''Freeze in the Abyss'' like we say ''Burn in Hell'' to people.
-A text RPG called Wizard's Choice used ''Nevel's Tongue'' as a curse word. Like ''What in the name of Nevel's Tongue is going on here?'' and that seemed like orginal.

Well, in my world draconians believe in the Fiery Father and use ''May Fiery Father ignite your breath.'' as some sort of blessing.

You can even use names from some fantasy for inspiration like ''I will come with you when Shiva starts to burn.'' in which happens to be an ice esper in Final Fantasy.

 

[Failivrin]

Others have touched on this above, but if your ingame world is heavy on mythological inspirations you can safely use quite a few "Christian" expressions. The process of assimilation is complicated but in short, Christian missionaries have spent the last several thousand years mimicking the lingo of cultures they wanted to convert. Jesus never talked about hell; he used the word Gehenna, which was the most horrible place his Jewish audiences could imagine (a valley of tombs and lepers). The apostle Paul wrote about Tartarus, which is a Greek realm similar to the Christian hell. The term "hell" was actually ripped straight from Norse mythology; Hel is the name of the goddess of Niflheim, a frozen waste for souls who die without valor...
Phillip Pullman uses the term daemons to describe creatures in his fantasy world. They are not Christian daemons; they're Greek daemons (The word is Greek and did not originally mean evil spirits. Socrates claimed to speak to a daemon, who was like his muse).
There are many possible examples. The important thing is simply that your audience understands what is meant by the expletive, word or phrase in question.

 

[Frozen_Phoenix]

If it's a fantasy world, anything goes.

 

[Gallia]

@Verdelite ,
If you go to a church and say that to a priest, he probably will scold you.
I don't mind having such things in any game.
"A game should be a playground for your imagination", its fantasy and nothing is close to reality.

I going stop here, as i can give more comments and "maybe" offend someone, that is a thing i won't do

 

[Kes]

[necro]Gallia[/necro]