Using both save anywhere and save points

[DoubleX]

  As I've seen some people here arguing saving anywhere vs save points(or items, same below) and I'm interested in this topic, I want to share some(maybe just plain stupid) ideas about this.

  It seems that some people treat saving anywhere and save points as mutual exclusive while some treat them as complimentary, and I'm one of the latter.

  I don't think I'm good at arguing about this, but I think the view of the latter has some advantages over that of the former if the implementation is good enough-

  1. Allows players to save anywhere while still reminding them the timing to save, removing "having to quit before reaching a save point" and "forgetting to save due to lack of reminders" drawbacks

  2. Allows those disliking or unbearable to save point/saving anywhere only mechanism to use the other or both, making games more friendly to current and more possible audience in this aspect

  3. (Similar to point 2)Allows more playing styles, such as saving every step(of course ridiculously exaggerated) and saving only when absolutely necessary(save points help reminding such timing)

  I think complimenting them can be more than simply including them both, though, maybe adding an achievement about this can improve such implementations.

  Roughly speaking, the achievement should be about showing a player using save points only, giving players a way to proof themselves about this.

  The achievement can be useful or useless non-consumable items(disappears whenever the achievement is void) or inside an explicit achievement system(maybe implemented by custom scripts) or others.

  Although I think implementing this achievement needs custom scripts, such scripts shouldn't be too hard nor costly to write for decent scripters(excluding me XD) and I think it's worth writing them

Spoiler

  A vague idea about how to write such scripts:

  1. Uses a game variable to store the number of confirmed saves(including overwritten ones, so it should be greater than or equal to the number of save files) but excluding those from save points only

  2. Use a game switch to indicate whether the saves are come from save points(set it to true and false before opening and after closing the save menu in save point events respectively)

  3. Voids the achievement if the game variable is greater than 0(this comparison should be done only before the achievement is void and right after saving)

  Another idea is adding a hardcore mode disabling saving anywhere(it's still allowed in normal mode). Players have to select the mode at the start of the game and it can't be changed.

  It's similar to using achievements but achievements only indicates whether a player used saving anywhere feature while hardcore mode prevents them from using it from the very beginning.

  Of course there has to be ways to show which mode the players are selected, otherwise they can't(or at least much harder to) show the others which mode they've selected.

  Setting the save accessibility according to their selected modes can be done by eventing.

  To show which mode players have selected, use an item, event or custom script(e.g.: by changing the party menu) to display their choices.

  To sum up, I think implementing both saving anywhere and save points, combined with related achievements or "hardcore modes"(or other ideas) is at least a considerable choice.

 

[SLEEP]

im playing mario and luigi dream team bros and it has both. feels a bit weird but its a compromise and its ok. attaching an achievement to it though asks players to trade off safety saving for bragging rights, i get that its optional but its not a tradeoff you should ask a player to make imo

 

[DoubleX]

im playing mario and luigi dream team bros and it has both. feels a bit weird but its a compromise and its ok. attaching an achievement to it though asks players to trade off safety saving for bragging rights, i get that its optional but its not a tradeoff you should ask a player to make imo

I think the trade off you mentioned depends on at least 3 things: save point implementations, achievement implementations and the players themselves

1. Save points should be sufficient(less than 5 minutes in my opinion, even better if the maximum is less than this) yet not to the point making them almost or just pointless(i.e., not too frequent).

    Some players can't spend much continuous time(maybe less than 5 minutes in 1 shot) on the games but save items can save the day if they have them(they can't be too easy to get either, otherwise making save points pointless also).

    They can use save points to reserve save items if they've time to reach them, but they can still use save items if they don't. This should greatly reduce the chance of not being able to save due to time constraints for most such players.

2. To lessen the bragging right problem posed by the achievement, the achievement itself should be totally useless in the game, otherwise it can be punishing to those used saving anywhere.

    If it's not enough, the achievement can be made more subtle, say there's no explicit achievement, just items or events showing the number of saves coming from saving anywhere. The bragging right should be reduced a lot now.

3. The bragging right coming from the achievement is only meaningful for players valuing that achievement. If they don't, the problem won't affect them as the braggers are bragging meaningless things in their opinion.

    Also, maintaining the achievement shouldn't be hard if players manage save items well, and players having low or no chance maintaining an useless achievement(at least in game) yet still valuing it should be rare at the very beginning.

In short, I think the trade off you mentioned can be reduced to a trivial level. Those wanting to prove themselves can use the achievement(even if subtle) and those not valuing it shouldn't need to trade off anything non trivial.