....Using Profanity. :-/

[Makio-Kuta]

I think it's a sign that vocabulary is changing. Like Caitlin said up there, if you look at some of the words that were considered profanity years and years ago - you'd discover that words we don't associate with that stigma might fall into that category. I wouldn't be surprised if in another 15-30 years a lot of the words we find profane today are destigmatized and more casual. It's not a trend that my sensitive self likes, but vocabularies evolve and change all the time. What is right and wrong to say changes with them.

I can hope I'm wrong - or I'll end up a crotchety old lady saying, "Back in my day when you used words like that your mother would beat you with a spatula and wash your mouth with soap!" Then I'd pet my cat as I drove away on my hover-walker.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

I swear casually and often. I clean up my language a lot (though not entirely) on the forums because... well, you know, big lead admin on a site representing a product, but really, I always fail to see the big deal about it.

They are just words. Tone and intent mean so much more than the words you use. I assure you I can insult and offend just as well without using profanity, and within a few minutes I can be using profanity with jocularity.

I sometimes feel awkward around people that don't swear though. Like they may be judging me by my language. But you know what... **** it, I'll be me, and if they don't like who I am, what do I care?

(And as a site representing a product, we do things slightly different on the boards, that is why we have the rule of no EXCESSIVE profanity, while in real life, it wouldn't even phase me).

Also, also, it can be used for great effect by jarring the reader. Prefacing my statement by saying I clean up my language on the forums in the first sentence, then dropping one of the most reviled English curse words (in America anyway) into the last sentence highlights the level to which I don't care that people judge me for it. Its just another tool in the box of the English language.

 

[Kaelan]

I've never seen the problem with it; the intent and content of what you're saying matters a lot more than the words you're saying it with.




I find it soooo extremely awkward when people who don't swear use "fake" swear words. It's such an odd way to talk, when you can tell they clearly want to swear. I know someone who always says "frick" and it always sounds like the strangest thing to say.

That aside, for a deeper, interesting (and extremely amusing) look at swearing in language, a talk by Steven Pinker:

 

[JAD94]

I grew up In a a household where using the word damn or crap was considered a curse word lol. In my opinion I don't really like to swear I find it disrespectful in most cases. But it does slip though of course from time to time. Especially when I bang my toe on my desk @_@

 

[captainproton]

I'm totally okay with reactive swearing; ie: Got nail-gunned in the face? Go ahead and pottymouth.

Conversational swearing, though? Not so much. It depends on the word and how it's used. Certain words (N-word, C-word, Fa-word, B-word) are inherently toxic, existing solely to hurt people. And if you can't hold a conversation without "effin" this and "effin" that, then you don't sound cool or edgy, you sound like a lowlife idiot.

Even in my writing, when I have a character prone to bad language, I'm more likely to say, "He let out a string of profanity, indicating what he thought of the man's lineage and romantic preferences." Rather than "'Blankity-blank-blank!' he shouted. 'You blankin' blank your blank blank blankin' blank!!!'"

 

[Touchfuzzy]

And if you can't hold a conversation without "effin" this and "effin" that, then you don't sound cool or edgy, you sound like a lowlife idiot.

You are free to think that, but I find that if you ignore everyone who casually swears, you are ignoring a lot of people who are perfectly intelligent and have great ideas.

 

[Scythuz]

The thing to worry about with me is when I usually swear around a person but stop, it usually means something's wrong haha.  As an english scouser I'm around a lot of people who swear on a near constant basis so it's used more like punctuation here.  Swearing and insulting each other is often a form of affection in the UK, it's a common part of banter along with sarcasm.  

There's always a difference between when it's used for fun and when it's used offensively but I find that words always have multiple purposes.  The same word can cut-deep but in another usage, be a sincere compliment.  It's all in how a word is used.

You should never cut someone out of your life based upon whether or not they swear though, it's a very unfair thing to do, it really doesn't take that much adjustment to get used to someone swearing and it's not like you need to start swearing too.

 

[captainproton]

@Touchfuzzy: I get what you're saying, and I do actually sort of agree. But it becomes very easy for good ideas to get buried in the verbal manure.

 

[Makio-Kuta]

It's just as easy to bury good ideas in a sea of flowery purple prose too. (And just as easy to mask bad ideas is them as well heh)

 

[Jasutin Rai]

I personally believe in my own religion that I created for myself after years of looking at different religious text, but anyway most people I know relate swearing to some bad sin or something.

I think that swear words are just words that you use in place of another for example: "I can understand that", and in place of understand you can use the word "Comprehend." So "I can comprehend that" and **** is just another word for crap. Its just that society has label them as bad things.

In truth they are just words like any other.

 

[Leaferson Kenraise]

I'm with Touchfuzzy on this one. They're just words. I honestly don't care if someone drops the "F" bomb after almost every word. I may not like it, or approve of it, but a human being still has a right to say his/her decision of words.

I just kind of wish more people (The ones that cuss excessively) would be a'lil more creative about their language and not only say "Eff" or "S**t" all the time. Use the minor curse words that are almost never used. In my opinion, I think they make more sense.

 

[Vexed]

I swear. A lot. More than that I have a pretty filthy and occasionally dark sense of humour which often calls for the use of certain swear words to get laughs from my friends and family. I don't often use swear words in confrontations or arguments unless things get very, very heated and I'm not the type to ever throw around harsh insults in anything other than jest. As others have said, intent and tone are key. I can cuss out my friends and have them in stitches and honestly not one of them would ever find it offensive or insulting, but change the context and the things I occasionally say could be considered downright horrid.

I do think though, that if a person is basing their opinion of others, even partially, on the words they use in casual conversation, they've got bigger things to worry about than being offended by a stray f-bomb. Fair enough if you don't like to hear certain words because they make you feel uncomfortable of whatever, but assuming someone is unintelligent or uncreative or anything else based on how often or how harshly they swear is, to me, ridiculous. I've been lucky enough to meet some insanely talented and creative people many of whom are also highly intelligent, and some of them have sworn like troopers. Others haven't.

Ultimately if someone wants to swear, it's up to them. I'm not offended either way as long as those words aren't used as weapons to purposefully cut someone else down or incite hatred or ridicule of a particular group of people.

Also, I do think that "bad" language is something we often severely under-use in writing. It's a tool like many others that, when used correctly can bring variety, life and impact to an exchange of dialogue or a passage of narration. Sadly, I think people are often too quick to dismiss swearing as something that only vulgar people use and that somehow using these words will make our work less intelligent or "serious". Of course you have your audience to consider, but writing it off straight out of the gate is potentially blocking you from some really interesting creative paths.

 

[Ruby]

Wow, I almost feel ashamed for not being a part of this conversation.

I think, personally, that using profanity is okay. It is a part of human science. We are always trying to create something bigger, and greater and to me, that is all that a curse word is. In my mind, I curse to find the greatest extent of something, limited to not reach the level of vulgarity, racism, or slander. To really get my point across, it feels better to say "That is f-cking brilliant." over, "That is really something." 

I honestly think there are things as humans, and as a society of people, that we could be better focusing our attention on. Especially with raising children. As adults we waste so much energy in creating proper robots, rather than creating creativity, inspiration, humbleness, and love, that we are missing out on the most amazing aspects of who we are. I'm all for a child respectively evolving themselves into who they are as long as it teaches. So often it is slanderous. So often parents are giving a negative energy towards cursing, and it is creating improper rebellion. 

I think that as long as you are portraying positivity always, always creating love, always being humble and gracious, kind and courteous, that saying "Hell" or "F-ck" or "Sh!t" casually is the least of our worries.

 

[Makio-Kuta]

Wow, I almost feel ashamed for not being a part of this conversation.

I think, personally, that using profanity is okay. It is a part of human science. We are always trying to create something bigger, and greater and to me, that is all that a curse word is. In my mind, I curse to find the greatest extent of something, limited to not reach the level of vulgarity, racism, or slander. To really get my point across, it feels better to say "That is f-cking brilliant." over, "That is really something." 

I honestly think there are things as humans, and as a society of people, that we could be better focusing our attention on. Especially with raising children. As adults we waste so much energy in creating proper robots, rather than creating creativity, inspiration, humbleness, and love, that we are missing out on the most amazing aspects of who we are. I'm all for a child respectively evolving themselves into who they are as long as it teaches. So often it is slanderous. So often parents are giving a negative energy towards cursing, and it is creating improper rebellion. 

I think that as long as you are portraying positivity always, always creating love, always being humble and gracious, kind and courteous, that saying "Hell" or "F-ck" or "Sh!t" casually is the least of our worries.

Just curious, but do you think words like that would be fine to use in like... A press conference? A teacher to use in front of a classroom? During a large presentation? Not trying to be confrontational here, just genuinely curious, since your views on swearing are very open.

 

[Susan]

Certainly, there are a lot of interesting points of views here.

In all honesty, I was thoroughly shocked whenever I hear someone use even the slightest profanity just a few years ago. Later on, I was exposed to an environment where people do it on a regular basis.

I'm fine with people using profanity in their everyday language, as long as they don't use it as a weapon to attack others with (like in Makio's example). I find it better to not react to their verbal abuse, even if it causes them to escalate verbally. If this happens in a professional setting and can't be resolve, it's time to move up the chain of command. Reacting negatively to a verbal abuse in or out of a professional setting would just add one more person to the mix to entertain the passerbys, but will most likely not resolve the issue(s).

On a more personal observation, I found that whether a person swears a lot, or none at all, has nothing to do with their character. Someone could use swear words all day long (in a non-abusive manner), and yet be the only person who's always there to watch your back or help you when you need someone the most, whereas someone could speak as weave all the sweet and beautiful words for you to hear, and yet be the one who instigates more trouble when you already have enough.

That said, swearing is just one small part of a person's character, not their entire character. You may amuse, shock or intimidate someone everytime you use profanity (for either the right or wrong reasons) but at the end of the day, a child is always going to be a child, a coward is always going to be one, and a good person is nothing less of who he/she is.

Like what Scythuz mentioned, try not to pick or isolate friends just because they enjoy adding a few, friendly colourful words to their everyday interactions just so they can spice up an otherwise dull conversation. You may just have turned away the best friend you could never again find.

 

[_Shadow_]

Just curious, but do you think words like that would be fine to use in like... A press conference? A teacher to use in front of a classroom? During a large presentation? Not trying to be confrontational here, just genuinely curious, since your views on swearing are very open.

 A teacher to use in front of a classroom?

Tell you what. I am a teacher. In Greece you are an adult if you reach the age of 18. Of course it isn't the age that makes a person an adult really. I have seen fourty five years old people acting like immature kids. But in general, I PERSONALLY believe that at the age of 20 you got a sense of what is right or wrong for you in a way, and you got used to be responsible for your words and actions.

That told, if my audience is consisted by people that ALL have ages above 20, I can swear just to be genuine. Some people feel uncomfortable. I CAN sense that, I apologize and use another word that will substitute the bad word. But what I got from my experience is that, since I am good at my job, people don't mind when I swear. They feel that I am actually honest and genuine. Not my thoughts or my perspective. I express THEIR opinion here. 

So imagine a teacher that has built a friendly enviroment, you enjoy being there, you actually LEARN stuff, and suddenly you ask why something is the way it is. RATIONAL question because some things doesn't make sense at all.

My reply wouldn't be a sterilized politcally correct statement. Instead I would prepare the audience that the next few sentences would be my personal biased opinion. Then, knowing my audience that I express a PERSONAL OPINION, I would actually tell them why I believe that thing is a F**king piece of useless **** that they will hopefuly never EVER use in real life.

They always smile. Because they get genuine and honest raw feedback. I smile too. Questioning something like that, means they know already a lot.

When it comes to kids, I FEEL obligated to show how people should talk formally and polite. It is my duty. On adults, everyone is responsible for themselves. If someone gets offended too easily, too bad. I prepare the audience for profanity, I ask first if they DO want me to be genuine, if even ONE says no, I keep it formal, but when everyone says "No problem go on" I go on with no responsibility. It's just good manners to ask for permission to be genuine and vulgar. 

On the other hand, using profanity to just "look cool" is plainly f@@king stupid in my opinion.

A Press Conference:?

It depends on what the Press Conference is about of course. I would love to shout "F#ck her right in the p$%%y" in a press conference, just to watch everyone's face afterwards. I will probably never do that though. I am not chickening out, I just believe that a live PRESS Conference, or a recorded one, might contain or not kids in the room (due to my job) and people watching from their TVs might have kids around. So it is a NO! Since kids hate walls of text I hope they won't read this f@%king huge reply of mine.

During a large presentation?

Assuming you talk about adult audiences. Kids would sleep on a long presentation anyway.

On my Diplomatic, I used Clean Academic Language, no profanity. Didn't risk that. As an Academic you must avoid foul language and use correct expression skills and arguments to deal with conversations. I give you that.

But when it comes to a long speech on an adult audience, you can use a good manners technique to get permission for using foul language, then "wake up" the audience by saying something a little vulgar, just to draw attention. Also whoever is sleeping will wake up by the gossip on what you just said!

It depends on the Presentation. If you make a presentation about "Why God is Good, oh my GoooooooD" then you most likely will avoid profanity! If you sell something, or an idea, you HAVE to AVOID profanity by all means. If you are making a presentation of some arguments on why profanity is good or bad though, well a f@cking example is F@cking permitted to make your point. Example is one of the F2cking strongest teaching tools after all. 

 

[Scythuz]

I swear. A lot.

and we love you for it haha, you're probably one of the most creative swearers I've ever met Vex, you personify British sass xD

Personally, I think overall I like it more when a person only swears occasionally, using it for extra emphasis rather than just punctuation.  There are exceptions to this of course.

 

[Ruby]

Just curious, but do you think words like that would be fine to use in like... A press conference? A teacher to use in front of a classroom? During a large presentation? Not trying to be confrontational here, just genuinely curious, since your views on swearing are very open.

With the current views society (at least in North America) has on swearing, no, I don't think that at this time certain words should be said in those situations. But the same things goes for opinions, viewpoints, hot topics, so on and so forth. There are places those things can be talked about, but like I said as long as you use them for their positive potential I don't think they are wrong CASUALLY.

 

[cabfe]

I read here that some people consider profanity as "just words".
Indeed, technically they are words.

But let's not forget that words do have power.

I know there are several levels of politeness in French, I'll try to translate into English to make more sense for non-French speakers:
-Informal language
-Colloquial language
-Formal language

There's a reason for these levels to exist. You do not express the same thing, nor convey the same impression, if you use the wrong level - even if the idea behind your words is the same.

I remember when I played Daggerfall that you could speak using three levels: Polite, Neutral or Blunt.
That was supposed to have an effect on your audience and make them react accordingly to their sensitivity.
And that was just a game.

Real life is full of people who'll react differently depending on you using profanity words or not, accordingly to their sensitivity.
They are not "just words", they also have a power of their own and must be used wisely as any other word.

The Myst game series also uses the power of the words as a background for their worlds. That's not a coincidence.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Why have we not seen Indrah in here...