Rafael_Sol_Maker

Almighty God Jabu
Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
141
Reaction score
94
First Language
Portuguese
Primarily Uses
RMMV
I can understand why people would want this on XP. A lot of people still prefer XP's mapping capabilities compared to VX and Ace, but also like Ace's easier scripting methods and newer features. What I can't understand is why you'd bother doing this for VX, when the outcome would pretty much be the same as if you were using VX-Ace. Certainly not to save money, since TF already stated you'd need to own a copy of both editors.
The mapping part I undestand. No one made a decent "map conversor" up to today, but it's perfectly possible to do, and it can take some advantage of the RGSS3 Tilemap class. The only problem would be the "pre-process", tilemaps images would be cut (up to the maximum size accepted, 512x512) and rearranged before used. Hmm, this is another case to study, but I think it wouldn't worth.So, you really need the 2 licenses to do the method here? A XP license it's obvious you need, but and ACE too? Here you only need to edit the game in XP Editor and a .EXE and .DLL, distributed freely in demos and freeware games around here, it's only a game player, there's no need to mess in anything with Ace. Someone can (re)clarify this, please? (Well, I'm only arguing here, please observe, it's not my point of view, I'm just discussing the subject.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Mako

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
276
Reaction score
48
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
The mapping part I undestand. No one made a decent "map conversor" up to today, but it's perfectly possible to do, and it can take some advantage of the RGSS3 Tilemap class. The only problem would be the "pre-process", tilemaps images would be cut (up to the maximum size accepted, 512x512) and rearranged before used. Hmm, this is another case to study, but I think it wouldn't worth.

So, you really need the 2 licenses to do the method here? A XP license it's obvious you need, but and ACE too? Here you only need to edit the game in XP Editor and a .EXE and .DLL, distributed freely in demos and freeware games around here, it's only a game player, there's no need to mess in anything with Ace. Someone can (re)clarify this, please? (Well, I'm only arguing here, please observe, it's not my point of view, I'm just discussing the subject.)
If you package and re-distribute assets that belong to Ace, you would need a license from Ace to distribute them yourself, Just like with the RTP, you can't use XP assets in Ace, without a license.
 

Tsukihime

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Jun 30, 2012
Messages
8,564
Reaction score
3,887
First Language
English
The mapping part I undestand. No one made a decent "map conversor" up to today, but it's perfectly possible to do, and it can take some advantage of the RGSS3 Tilemap class. The only problem would be the "pre-process", tilemaps images would be cut (up to the maximum size accepted, 512x512) and rearranged before used. Hmm, this is another case to study, but I think it wouldn't worth.
I don't think it would be possible to convert an XP map to an Ace map that can retain all of the same things.

You will need to write a tileset converter (rxdata to rvdata2) as well, and I doubt the specs are the same even if they are serialized the same way.

Tileset processing in Ace is also much different from XP. Ace has a whole bunch of autotiles compared to XP.

Ace actually does support layers, but not in the same sense as XP.

In the rvdata2 file, if you scroll down to the map data section in a hex editor, you'll see that it is stored in their Table object



Code:
struct Table {
   int32 width
   int32 height
   int32 dimensions (maps always have 4: layer 0, layer 1, layer 2, shadow/region layer)
   int32 numElements

   int16[numElements] tile_id
}
Unfortunately, the layer information is hardcoded into the tilesets I believe, so layer 0 and layer 1 are split into different parts of the autotiles, and layer 2 is used for the "normal" tiles, so the two layer concepts are completely different.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Rafael_Sol_Maker

Almighty God Jabu
Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
141
Reaction score
94
First Language
Portuguese
Primarily Uses
RMMV
If you package and re-distribute assets that belong to Ace, you would need a license from Ace to distribute them yourself, Just like with the RTP, you can't use XP assets in Ace, without a license.
I understand, but it doesn't make any sense. Absurd. I don't have any problems with what you said, but with this logic... Both RTP and (some non-commercial) games can be download freely as they're "freeware", you could, in theory, redistribute everything here, since you don't modify or disaassemble anything (that's clearly against the EULA).

The only thing I thought you need to pay the license, is to use the Editor itself (it's a shareware/Trial with 30-days period to test it), and to sell a game if it has RTP resources or parts of the default game engine.

Makes sense this way, I guess. But it was my opinion, I could be wrong...

I don't think it would be possible to convert an XP map to an Ace map that can retain all of the same things.

You will need to write a tileset converter (rxdata to rvdata2) as well, and I doubt the specs are the same even if they are serialized the same way.

Tileset processing in Ace is also much different from XP. Ace has a whole bunch of autotiles compared to XP.

Ace actually does support layers, but not in the same sense as XP.

In the rvdata2 file, if you scroll down to the map data section in a hex editor, you'll see that it is stored in their Table object

[...]

Unfortunately, the layer information is hardcoded into the tilesets I believe, so layer 0 and layer 1 are split into different parts of the autotiles, and layer 2 is used for the "normal" tiles, so the two layer concepts are completely different.
Yes, I already studied it, it's exactly you said. I thought we could take some advantage of the RGSS3 Tilemap class, only to don't recreate it again from scratch. A Tilemap class can produce the Graphics you chose, if you tell it what you want. But unfortunately, in this case, it's incredibly hard to do.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

amerk

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
1,433
Reaction score
495
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
I understand, but it doesn't make any sense. Absurd. I don't have any problems with what you said, but with this logic... Both RTP and (some non-commercial) games can be download freely as they're "freeware", you could, in theory, redistribute everything here, since you don't modify or disaassemble anything (that's clearly against the EULA).
The RTP can already be downloaded freely, as it's generally required to be able to play most RM games. It's one thing to have the RTP to play a game, and another thing to have the RTP to make a game.

If you're using the RTP for game making purposes, you have to own a copy of the maker it's on. If you're using the RTP from one maker and porting it onto a different maker, you have to own both makers (the one that you are taking the RTP from, and the one you are exporting it to).

I can't see why it would be any different for script functionality (ie., using RGSS3a in another maker).
 

Rafael_Sol_Maker

Almighty God Jabu
Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
141
Reaction score
94
First Language
Portuguese
Primarily Uses
RMMV
The RTP can already be downloaded freely, as it's generally required to be able to play most RM games. It's one thing to have the RTP to play a game, and another thing to have the RTP to make a game. [...]
Yes, I agree, on most cases RTP is needed (bad pratice for indie games, thought). But, sincerely, I don't see any notable difference, having the RTP in the two cases, since you don't bypass the EULA it's fine.Except if you want to make a commercial game, as you can't sell a resource that isn't originally made for selling ("freeware", remember?). The license would... license you to be able to do it.

Originally the license makes you able to use the software legally, and legally sell games made with any of the resources within RTP. If you don't buy it, you can't make games, but you yet can shares any (non-commercial) games made, and to download any RTP you want to run any game.

[...] If you're using the RTP for game making purposes, you have to own a copy of the maker it's on. If you're using the RTP from one maker and porting it onto a different maker, you have to own both makers (the one that you are taking the RTP from, and the one you are exporting it to).[...]
Happily it's completely optional, we can make a game without using the RTP. "Game making purposes" you said is actually using the RTP inside the editor, but don't mix the things. You pay to use the editor, not the RTP (except in the condition I already said).

But again I reinforce: You need to actually pay to sell a game containing (part of) the RTP, as "you can't sell a resource that isn't originally made for selling". And after all, there's not specific on EULA prohibiting on using a RTP in a different RPG maker it was planned, there is? (If you know, please inform me, it's a serious case to consider)

[...]I can't see why it would be any different for script functionality (ie., using RGSS3a in another maker).
I dunno if the "script functionality" you said includes or not the RTP. I think it's not. And remember that "script funcionality" is different from a script. Well, here we're not talking either about RTP or "script funcionality", we're only talking about using a different Game player . A .EXE and a .DLL, included on every game and totally independent from RTP. You can make a game without RTP, but not without these two files.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Lunarea

Artist
Global Mod
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
8,842
Reaction score
7,818
To clear things up ... Purchasing RPG Maker means purchasing the software and the license for the RTP. If you haven't purchased a version of RPG Maker, you cannot legally use its RTP. This is true for both commercial and non-commercial projects. You pay for both the editor and the RTP.

You can download the RTP freely because it may be necessary in order to run projects, but you cannot use it unless you purchase the license - which comes with RPG Maker.
 

Levi

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
798
Reaction score
144
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
@Rafael

This is in the Agreement that you agreed/agree to upon downloading RTP for any Makers.

Note for using VX Ace RTP with other RPG MAKER products.

The materials included in RPG MAKER VX Ace RTP can be used with other RPG MAKER products from Enterbrain as long as you own both RPG MAKER VX Ace and other RPG MAKER products. For example, if you already own RPG MAKER VX and you want to use any materials included in the VX Ace RTP with RPG MAKER VX, you need to purchase and own RPG MAKER VX Ace also.

Read more: http://www.rpgmakerw...e#ixzz20Eb5crES
The same goes for scripts.

Whether you agree with it or not does not matter.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Rafael_Sol_Maker

Almighty God Jabu
Veteran
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
141
Reaction score
94
First Language
Portuguese
Primarily Uses
RMMV
To clear things up ... Purchasing RPG Maker means purchasing the software and the license for the RTP. If you haven't purchased a version of RPG Maker, you cannot legally use its RTP. This is true for both commercial and non-commercial projects. You pay for both the editor and the RTP.

You can download the RTP freely because it may be necessary in order to run projects, but you cannot use it unless you purchase the license - which comes with RPG Maker.
Lunarea, I wasn't promoting piracy in any manner, here or in the another topic, please reconsider this warning. No one here is against the Enterbrain, including me, it's just the opposite.

OMG, no one understood a line I said... Where it was cheating Enterbrain? I was promoting the use of a legal XP/VX with a RGSS3 player, where it's piracy there, please? You don't need to license the software you use to edit your game anyway? Where using features, ideas or even a game player from another maker is a crime? If Enterbrain says specifically that you need both licenses in order to play games made with VX or XP in another game player, I change my opinion immediately!

See? I'm not talking about using RTP here or there. I reinforced lots and lots of times that if you need to deliver a game with resources of both RTPs you WOULD buy BOTH licenses. RTP could be used to play it, to run the project, and I said it was only for experimental purposes, as some resources match filenames but they're not the same, you know. I recommended total independence of the RTP, but I saw no problems on running, in the sample (again, for experimental purposes), ACE RTP to play test with ACE game player.

But I'll try to understand your side, if it's not a big deal for Eb!, so, sorry for this. I didn't choose my words correctly... This won't be repeated. There's only something I understood wrong, as appointed by Levi W, and I already corrected my posture about that and already edited the correspondent post. Sorry for the trouble I caused with this misunderstanding.

@Rafael

This is in the Agreement that you agreed/agree to upon downloading RTP for any Makers.

[...]
Hmm, interesting, now that I know it's official, I'll proudly defend the licensing of both makers in order to make a game with both RTPs. It's the only thing I'm sure I was wrong up to this moment. Thanks, Levi W!

p.s.: Well, it's explained why I didn't know about this...I've downloaded the RTP in Japanese, after all. It's only my fault.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

d_a_renoir

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
237
Reaction score
27
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Nice one. I wonder though... Could this method be implemented in RMVX?
 

RPGMaker

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Jul 16, 2012
Messages
89
Reaction score
2
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Meh.. it could have been better if it was vice versa.

Because I think XP and its lay out is getting really old plus its way too old.

VX is much better.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

TheRiotInside

Extra Ordinaire
Veteran
Joined
Sep 3, 2012
Messages
270
Reaction score
124
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Here's hoping that the next RPG Maker has a mapping system similar to XP. Tilesets in a simple sheet layout, give us a few layers, and let us slap whatever we want wherever we want. It is so much better, unbelievably so.

We really need a new, shiny RPG Maker like VX Ace, with its beautiful database and amazing customization within it, but with XP's mapping system. That would be perfect.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Terv

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
36
Reaction score
11
Primarily Uses
I think it's worth noting that I have posted an updated and enhanced tutorial over here, including game encryption and lots of fixes for some RGSS1 scripts in order to make them compatible. Give it a try, you definitely won't regret it!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

PK8

I sense there's something in the wind...
Veteran
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Messages
1,220
Reaction score
152
Primarily Uses
Uh huh.


Cool.
 

Celianna

Tileset artist
Veteran
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Messages
10,558
Reaction score
5,604
First Language
Dutch
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Terv, please refrain from necro-posting in a thread. Necro-posting is posting in a thread that has not had posting activity in over 30 days. You can review our forum rules here. Thank you.
 

Anime Girl

Beginner Artist (I'm here to storm the world) :D
Veteran
Joined
Nov 27, 2012
Messages
55
Reaction score
6
First Language
English, French
Primarily Uses
Can you use rpg vx skripts in rpgxp if you do this?
 

Latest Threads

Latest Posts

Latest Profile Posts

You look like you had a rough day...Here, have a Baby Panda!

A certain person better sell his stock while he still can, because it looks like it's going to take an unrecoverable nose dive.
7 years of trying to plan this project... and it got an official plotline today. 7 years. I really just have no concept of order huh GHJGSJHGVGHASFH.
Doing RPG Maker News for 24th October 2021

I'm not sure how to do this so I'll just ask here, Wheres a good place to post your game (for free) once its done?

Forum statistics

Threads
116,065
Messages
1,095,464
Members
151,430
Latest member
gredrick333
Top