Vampire Blood Magic

[fireflyege]

Ok so far most of the people know about Tremere Clan in Vampire: The Masquerade.

But for those who don't, the Tremere clan is a powerful vampire clan known to be the mages and warlocks, and their speciality is an art they invented themselves called Thaumaturgy whch is basically blood magic. Most vampires fear it too much that they have a discipline that is solely based on negating Thaumaturgy.

Why am I telling you? Well, because when we think of vampires we think about they are predators that drink blood but they can cast magic and espicially blood magic, because there are not any restrictions for them to not to. It would be interesting to see a vampire creating walls of flesh and blood to defend against attacks or using whatever thrilling horror they would cause using blood magic.

This, is a very interesting concept. I am personally approaching that with my last character which drains life physically like any other vampire and then spreads the excess life to her own party for healing or her enemies for more damage. But I want to know how most of you would reflect that theme with your unique approaches.

So let's discuss, shall we?

 

[UgyBoogie]

The general theme of "Blood Magic" always reminds me of 2 series. Legend of Korra, where it was some sort of "forbidden" subclass of controlling water. It was mainly used to take control of someones body. Deadman Wonderland where someone's (external) own blood could be controlled to form various things like blades, fists or whips.
I, personally, like the latter more. Sacrificing your own source of life to enhance certain aspects of your skills, both offensive and defensive.
It's an interesting concept either way.

 

[The Stranger]

I prefer Koldunic Sorcery, as well as Viscissitude, from the Tzimisce line.

Your idea is a very old idea, and really has nothing to do with Thaumaturgy from VTM. The concept of using blood to give life to something, or someone, else can be found as far back as ancient Greece - perhaps even older. Blood has always been a symbol of life, and has always held powerful mystical and spiritual meanings for nearly all Human cultures; really struggling to think of a culture which hasn't glorified blood in some form.

In my dark fantasy world, blood is the only way to perform the closest thing to magic - blood is the be all and end all. Drinking blood is both symbolic of taking on the traits of another, and also of sealing bonds\signing contracts. Military commanders are prevented from betraying those above them via a blood bond (similar to the vinculum in VTM), forcing commanders to become insanely loyal and obsessed with their higher ups. I've done a bunch of other stuff with it, but it's mainly related to mixing blood and a special crystal together which forms the basis of most science in this fantasy world. Most of my ideas are based around warping the flesh and biological reconstruction, though.

You could have blood do different things, rather than spells, based on how the blood letting takes place, the emotional state of the vicitim, and how much blood is spilt. Strange and powerful supernatural forces could gather over battles, since so much blood is being spilled - it could not only attract shades of the dead, but also conjure up powerful storms and the like.

 

[fireflyege]

@The Stranger the point is not ''blood magic''. The point is ''vampires casting blood magic''. Those two are entirely different things. Vampires have an urge to consume blood so a vampire needs a considerable willpower to use that blood for magic rather than consuming it.

Also Thaumaturgy from VTM may not be able to heal, but I am not talking about healing only. For example a think of a vampire leaping at you and drinking your blood, then proceed to back off and charge a blood torrent to finish you, with your own blood. That is the thing I am talking about. Of course in various situations you can use that blood to restore your enemy so she is undoing your damage with your own blood. The closest thing to it is the old Summoner from Allods Online, where the Summoner drains your health then regenerates his own party with spreading plagues of love.

May not be accurate but think Blood Elves from WoW. They are the arcane adepts of the horde and yet they have an addiction to consume arcane energy but they still can cast magic and be considerable spellcasters with it.

 

[The Stranger]

@fireflyege Thaumaturgy in VTM isn't just vampires using blood magic, though. It's mages using blood magic; mages who stole immortality from a sleeping antediluvian. The whole reason they chose to become vampires was so they could research magic for eternity; which backfired on them. So, by nature they have an insanely high amount of dedication and willpower; they're more scientist than vampire. They also use their own blood for the most part, except for spells which utilise the blood of victims in often destructive ways. They even used Thaumaturgy to create the Gargoyles from willing and unwilling vampires. Some of their powers allow them to steal blood without feeding, too, so it's not always a battle between the thirst and willpower.

Vampires in VTM all use their own blood to do anything, though; even rise from sleep each night. Thaumaturgy is simply manipulating blood in far more destructive and arcane ways than activating a discipline or existing.

Yeah, I think the Blood Elves is an apt comparison, to a degree. They were addicted and needed to feed on arcane power, but could spare some to use as magic.

Edit: I think Viscissitude might be right up your alley. That is what the Tzimisce do to still living creatures, without killing them. Reshaping creatures into anything they desire, and not feeding on their blood. I really liked the opening story in the Tzimisce clan book, which has a WWII Tzimisce vampire keeping warm inside a German tank by flesh crafting living soldiers into fleshy door, and interior, in order to keep the warmth in; I think it was to keep the warmth in. The soldiers were still alive and not fed upon - so it took time and energy to reshape them, but he gained nothing in return.

 

[Manofdusk]

Thaumaturgy in VTM could do nearly anything. In fact, if you wanted to, could literally create a vampire character, give him whatever spells you wanted him to have, and make them cost hp and you have the equivalent of VTM Thaumaturgy.

Now, if you're asking about Hemomancy (blood speaking), then your options change a bit. You're literally using blood as a weapon. You can super concentrate the blood inside of you (potentially granting a buff that increases your Max Hp based on your Mat), make an opponent's blood attempt to explode out of his body (deal damage equal to the target's damage taken or a flat amount (whichever is greater)) or simpy feed on the target using magic (instead of doing it physically).

Blood magic has also been used traditionally to give life to inanimate objects in fantasy as well... so this character could come with a retinue of golems and homunculi that only the Blood Mage could heal.

 

[The Stranger]

@Manofdusk You know what? I never knew you could take any spell and simply apply a blood cost to it in VTM; I was only ever looking at the Thaumaturgy spell lists in the Tremere book and the Sabbat book.

 

[fireflyege]

@Manofdusk Now that reminded me of the Blood Mage on Dragon Age more than anything.

My first thought before opening this thread was exactly like how blood elves are. Addicted to the very source you draw power, a character can have a resonating gameplay such as the one I told you about stealing life and giving excess life to the allies.

What am I talking about is real blood magic, not magic that have health costs. Ranging from walls of flesh to blood explosions, and even hemogenesis and transfusion based support spells.

 

[Manofdusk]

@The Stranger well, I suppose it depends on your storyteller. The one I played in pretty much let you do anything you could research... Though it makes since sense the Tremere were mages that stole blood from a sleeping Antidiluvian.

ANYway, I really like Blood Magic and I've built several characters who use it to varying degrees.

1st, there are 2 types of Hemomancy.

1) External: This is one of the most forbidden types of magic, where you use the lifeblood of another entity to fuel the magic. This is the stuff you see when you see people being sacrificed. This is also the type vampires are most likely to use (even if they use their own blood, it's still stolen blood)

2) Internal: This is a MUCH lesser used and known about form of hemomancy. Its also more socially acceptable. You use small amounts of your own blood to amplify magical effects.

2nd, there are several "schools" of Hemomancy.

1) Amplification: The blood is used as a component for a normal spell, amplifying it considerably.

2) Contract: Contracts written or signed in blood are a staple part of fantasy and mythologies. They represent unbreakable contracts (with metaphysical repercussions for trying to get out of them)

3) Life Drain: This is your vampire for the most part, draining life from enemies (but other Hemomancers can do this too). This is my particular favorite. I have a Death Knight type of character in a game I've put on the backburner who's main gimmick was the ability to life drain. He could either convert this healing into a shield for himself or share the overflow healing with the party.

4) Blood Shaping: This is what you're basically talking about. Using blood as a physical weapon. I'm personally not particularly fond of this school unless the character's focus is squick. Blood is messy and doesn't come up easy... so any place where this type of magic is used is going to leave a mess (as well as lingering dread).

but since this is the character you're talking about, I'm going to assume that squick is the goal. The first thing is: Where is he getting the material? Is he conjuring the wall of flesh from another dimension or is he crafting it out of a living creature?

I once had a D&D character use "Stone to Flesh" on a stone wall that had sprung up to trap him and proceeded to hack through it and step through the gory opening. This kind of stuff has a visceral impact on people. Normal people are going to be horrified when they see stuff like this. If you don't have NPC reactions to it, then there is going to be a jarring disconnect.

Causing the blood to burst the vessels in someone's body is likewise going to be a horrifying thing. They're going to start bruising up and may even begin bleeding out of their orifices. Again, it's horrifying and seeing one entity do that to another should elicit some kind of response from anyone who isn't a sociopath.

So, if you're going to use this in your game, make sure you treat it as something completely separate from any other kind of magic. Getting burned by a fireball is bad, yes... but having someone reach into your body and pull the blood out from your eyes is on a whole different level.

 

[fireflyege]

@Manofdusk the Vampress is a complex character with her skills, and is not really tied to one school. She uses mainly Life Drain spells, and has the same theme with your Death Knight without the need to make her health full, because her attacks get scale with her missing health so she needs to fight in the brink of death and is comfortable doing so. She only has 1 ability that actually involves Blood Shaping and it is the Aegis of Flesh. How does she do that? She uses the blood in her own veins as a physical projectile and shapes into a protective barrier. It is disgusting but terrifyingly effective. Of course the paladin has problems with it most of the time but he endures.

The Vampress uses physical abilities to drain blood, and has two stances:

-Bloodletting: She loses some of her current health each turn but gets considerably more lifesteal but weakens your darkness magic (blood). Overwrites Blood Price. Instant, with 1 turn cooldown.
-Blood Price: She loses some of her current health each turn but gets amplifies her darkness magic (blood) but makes you unable to steal life. Overwrites Bloodletting. Instant, with 1 turn cooldown.

She has two stances, one is for her physical attacks that drain health. When she feels she drained enough, she uses Blood Price and goes ham on you. She has 2 skills that scale with her excess life.

Her battle style is like she comes close and personal and physically drains blood from you vamprires can drain blood more effective than a hemomancer can, then she backs off and unleashes a torrent of blood from her veins finishing you off. Some of her effective attacks are instant actions but they cost more than half of your health, so she must fight in the brink of death, where she is most comfortable. You know, vampires are considered dead so I thought that would be fitting for her.

My mage also uses blood magic with extending his water based HoT effect, and with agonizing his enemy but he does not really care much about offensive blood magic because he can simply use Cerebremancy or Void Magic if he needs to destroy someone. Most characters would resist blood magic in a number of ways, with only the Magus and Witch successfully able to resist its effects, they are not immune but they do not go puppet mode whenever a blood mage comes around.

 

[Manofdusk]

So both of your passive skills cause you to lose health each turn? Is there a way to turn them off?

I'd personally make it so that the life steal one doesn't sap health and then the other one does for the increased damage. There's actually a LoL character that functions based off a similar mechanic

 

[fireflyege]

If you cast the same spell again, yes you are able to turn them off but why would you? Both spells are instant but will share the same cooldown, and have %15 of current health as an activation cost.

Both the passives take %15 of your current health per turn and you are supposed to:

-Take health from your enemies when you are under %50, and Bloodletting is perfect for it because of the increased lifesteal.
-Spend health to use your devastating attacks when you are above %50, and Blood Price is perfect for that.

Take into consideration that Victoria does not have a large health pool so her health costs are not really that hard to outheal. The sad thing is the spell would not feel thematical if I remove the cost because Bloodletting is the withdrawal of blood to cure that specific person. I will consider making that possible and will rework the skill if I need to, though.

I play LoL so I guess that character you are talking about would be Aatrox. I was inspired by his design and they even share the damage stance names, Aatrox's damage stance is also called Blood Price.