Draktheron

Queen of the Sky Sailor, Wonderful
Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
17
Reaction score
9
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
I've described it else where as an idle idea I had played with in the back of my mind. pulling it out from the top of my head this could be pulled off in theory if some one wanted to do it the long way with basic RPGmaker event/common event use, but it would be rather complex and difficult to handle for the general person.

Here is how I described it (Long Post Warning!)

Completely a side thing, but I've become enamored with the ending of Touhou M-1 6th Grand Prix's ending with Yukari begging Ran to stay.
--v krXMbbnumBU
--v

Soo, I had a thought. From this I thought about a game where certain combination of characters would have synergy with each other give special boosts.
 hmm, Ah, maybe to clarify. You would have a total of 16 characters in a party aligned 4x4. Your first Row is your in battle party. The back three are the support columns. When the current front row member falls in combat they get rotated out with whomever is behind them. Fairly simple standard stuff right? Here is where I go a little insane...

So anyone know Final Fantasy 13? It was the first time I been introduced to it's combat system of paradigms. So keep that in mind as we go through, alright? If you don't know, well, I'll explain a bit of it as we go through, or rather you could look it up.

Now into the deeper part of the Combat Synergy System, (not CSS, not the script), Lets take first position and say Hmm, "Sakuya" fills it. So she would be  part of the Battle Row, in Column 1. And in the back three of Column 1 are "Remilia", "Hong Meiling" and, "Patchouli" as anyone who knows Touhou would know all for characters are part of the Scarlet Devil Manor Team, thus, closely related. I specifically chose those characters for a reason! So the order looks like this:

(Sakyua)  (Empty) (Empty) (Empty) <--- In Battle Party
(Remlia) (Empty) (Empty) (Empty)
(Meiling) (Empty) (Empty) (Empty)
(Patchouli) (Empty) (Empty) (Empty)

As you can see Sakuya is backed up by 3 others from SDM. Because of this 2 things happen. First off, Sakuya gets a special move with nice flavor text added to her set: "Show Time" "To give everything for the Household and Master, that is the job of the head maid".This happens as the result of Sakuya having Synergy with the 3 behind her. As you can see the flavor text doesn't exactly say what the Synergy skill does, but that is part of the fun. Next what happens is that Sakuya will receive stat boosts from her support members, the Stat boosts directly reflect with each characters "Special Power" which is the Stat they grow strongest in. So from Remilia, Sakuya gets Bonus P.Atk, Meiling give bonus HP, Patchy gives bonus M.Def. This does not deal with the Synergy system as much so you could rotate a full attack team behind a High attack character to essentially make them destroyers. or HP and Defense Characters to create a Tank. Hell, back Sakuya up by a bunch of tanking Characters to turn a Glass Cannon into a Tank. A little freedom with stategy so not to punish the player for not using Synergy.

Now... lets change thing up. Here's where we get the Final Fantasy 13 paradigms part.
our new team is this.

(Remilia) (Sayuka) (Patchouli) Meiling) <--- In Battle Party
The remaining 12 slots are empty.

Each Character is going to have 2 classes assigned to them. One based on their stats (maybe not entirely. but definitely will reflect them), and the other based on their standing in the series.
So we will give them these classes (if you know FF13, do you remember Relentless Assault Paradigm?)

Classes work out to be like so: (Series based/Stat Based)

Remilia (Commander/Warlord)
Sayuka (Support/Ninja)
Patchouli (Magician/Mage)
Meiling (Defender/Tank)
*If this is ever picked up by myself or someone else, I can only hope they come up with a better class for Sakuya instead of "Ninja", maybe Assassin? xD

As you can see they all hit a pretty good, wide range of classes. Now we got the Paradigm Combat System (shameless FF13 rip. Forgive me!). If certain conditions with character placement, and present classes are met more bonus will be met. In this particular set Remilia occupies First Position. That is important! Because Remilia's class as Commander she conveys a combat bonus of "Lead the Attack" in which a combat multiplier  is applied to the target of the commander and increases on every hit. Hum... Lets take another example.

At the end I'll set a full 16 character party and explain every single bonus that occurs, but for now we will stick to talking about PCS (almost PCB, damn!).

(Sakuya) (Patchouli) (Meiling) (Ran) <-- In Battle Party
The back 12 are empty

New charater in this list is Ran, with a new Stat.
Ran (Technician/Mage)

Ran is a Technician. therefore if she is placed in the back she gives a combat bonus of "Efficiency" Which boosts the Speed and P.Atk and M.Atk of all character ahead of her by 10% OR equal to her "Special Power" whichever is greater (usually it will be the  10%, as well if she moves first her attacks deal double damage. (For the sake of balance, one would obviously give Ran weaker stats so she doesn't one-shot bosses by moving first!).

And there is more to this story. Fat lady has yet to preform her Aria.

Now the next part is "Character Bonuses" not every character will have them, only ones that make sense will which could be everyone... Oh well! (The real tragedy is that I have to create a full 16 person team to pull it all together).

Keeping in the spirit of Synergy and team work, these Character Bonuses can only be pulled off by at least 2 people. This means character and a teammate, or maybe a character and an enemy. Yes you can have certain Synch effects with your enemy. (anyone remember Rapid Dashes ability? Flash Fire?)
 Lets make an example shall we?

(Empty) (Chen) (Yukari) (Ran) <--- In Battle Party
the back 12  slots are empty.

Starting with Yukari, a couple things happen. (Things always happen if Yukari is around...). First off, Yukari's Character Bonus is "Puppet Master" If Yukari's Heath is above 50% and a Ran or Chen falls in battle there is a 100% chance that they will Resurrect and drain 50% of Yukari's current health. for their own.

giving them fake stats, it looks like this:
Chen Hp: 10/10
Yukari Hp: 50/50
Ran Hp: 30/30
 and say Ran  during the battle. Causing Yukari's Bonus to activate it would look like this.

Chen HP 10/10
Yukari HP 25/50
Ran HP 25/30

Even if Chen died, Yukari would still lose the full 50% which is greater than Chen's Health, Chen would only recover 10 HP, Yukari would still lose 25 HP. If say Yukari had 25 HP  or less and one of them died, she would not resurrect them. This is double edged, if Yukari had 26 HP and one of them died, she would lose 13 HP. effectively lowering her to 25% of her health. However as long as Yukari is kept alive and above 50%, Ran and Chen could possibly fight forever, and continue resurrecting. (Maybe giving Ran a healing spell would be overpowered in this case?)

Now, with Chen's Character P... screw it, I'm calling it an Ability from herein. Chen's Ability is "Shikigami's Shikigami" As long as Ran or Yukari is present anywhere in the party Chen will gradually restore 1% HP, divided among any of the three present over time. Meaning that if it's just Ran and Chen that are present, both will restore .5% HP over time. all three are present, then they only recover .3%HP over time. (Dimishing return, similar to Yukari)

Finally Ran's Ability, "Master and Servant". If Yukari and Ran are both present on the battle party Ran will substitute for 5% of Yukari's Damage taken. However, if Ran is below 30% then Yukari will substitute for 10% of the damage taken regardless of her own health. If Chen is present with Ran on the Battle Party then Chen's Speed is increased. If all three are present on the battle Party, Ran willing prioritizes protecting Yukari, as does Yukari will protect Ran as well.

Another Double Edge example is Remilia's "I'm in Charge" ability, which lowers the priority of all battle party members to below hers, while raising their P.Def. and M.Def. This would make good use of her class as Commander, giving the damage multiplier, however detrimental with faster characters against fast enemies. However this only requires Remilia being slower than another character on the field, Remilia will have a natural speed affinity anyway so it "should not" proc often. (Don't place her next to Aya or Chen *Wink Wink*) This WILL, affect Sakuya though, (maybe a little Defense is good for her..?)

... Oh... it's that time... I have to bring everyone together for a example of all their CSS, PSC, and abilities. 16 characters that could blend well... O.O If you reading this, I did it successfully so don't hold your breath in expectation!

(Cirno)     (Satori)   (Yukari)     (Ran) <-- In Battle Party
(Rumia)    (Koishi)   (Chen)       (Sakuya)
(Wriggle)  (Okuu)    (Yuyuko)    (Youyumou)
(Mystia)    (Orin)     (Reimu)      (Rei'sen)

I actually really like this set up. some of the things I am going to skip over are stat bonuses, and the support row PSC possibilities.

First we open up with the first rows Classes.
Cirno (Commander/Ice "Spellsword")
Satori (Crippler/Mage)
Yukari (Commander/Tower) *Tower is an high P.Atk, P.Def, M.Def, HP class, however, abominable speed, and M.Atk
Ran (Technician/Support)

Now lets get in with the PSC(s) active here, there are three.

1. Cirno as Commander, and... Yukari as Commander. Due to Cirno already being in First position activating the "Lead the Attack" effect. It will allow Yukari as a commander and allow her to carry the attack to another enemy.

2. Satori as Crippler, if Satori follows a commander, her chance to debuff is guaranteed. this called, "Marked Targets"

3. Ran as Technician giving "Efficiency" Boosting the stats of those who attack ahead of her.
 That was the easy part...

The CSS(s) present there are 4.
Column 1: Team 9, Cirno's bonuses (or whomever happens to be from that group) from everyone's special power is increased by 1.5x
Column 2: Reckless Confidence, Satori's Speed and Offense is increased, but her defense is lowered.
Column 3: Border Girls, Reimu and Yukari's lower stats are raised till equalized.
Column 4: Shared Burden, The current head of the column makes all of the others highest stats her own, at the cost of her Special power bonus being multipled by .5x

Abilities: There are a ton.
Yukari's Puppet Master
Ran's Master and Servent
Cirno's Baka (Will occasionally forget, and shrug off Beneficial & Harmful effects, as long as a more intelligent character (such as Yukari/Ran) is present in the Battle Party)
Satori/Koishi's Mind Sight (as long as Both Satori and Koishi are present anywhere, with at least one on the front lines, conveys the entire party a chance to mass evade an oncoming attack).
Sakuya/Youmu Meeting of Steel. Every other turn Raises both of their P.Atk, by +.2x as long as they both are in a support row.
Okuu/Orin, Team Work if both are present in the Battle party, which ever attacks first, the other's related attack is factored and added to total damage, at the cost of the latter having their turn skipped.

And many more >.>

If you Tl;DRed... Do you know where to find any good Touhou Sprites for RPGMaker VX Ace? I really want Yukari, Ran and Chen.~ Thanks for checking in~

And if you did read through all of this... Thanks! Any Feed back is super super appreciated!
Ok, so if you didn't read that it's fine! I actually want to write down it's barebones what I'm looking for.

Layout

A system that takes your party and parse out a battle row versus a support row(s), and align characters to columns. Each Column would have the support actors backing up the head of the column with stat boosts and more.

1.Layout.png 2.Rows.png 3.Columns.png

 1.[4 x 4 Layout. Green represents Battle Row]

 2. The Battle row is followed by it's individual rows.

 3 . The individual columns labeled Columns  1.2.3.4
Synergy

Another facet of the system is the lead battler at the head of the column would check who is behind them and certain actor groups would work well and provide either passive boosts or unlock new active skills only available when a particular actor(s) are present in the support row a characters column. In the Note tag section of an actor I would imagine it would look like this:
Synergy.png

<check column for: actorX, actorX,... set state: StateX>

or for a new ability

<check column: actorX, actorX,... learn Skill: SkillX>

Thinking about it, something is in a way required

<check column: actorX, actorX, actorX, actorX, actorX learn Skill: skill#>

However, the game is set so that there is only 3 rows allowed, so how would the above line be possible? This:

<check column: actorX, actorX, actorX, actorX, actorX Require:3 learn Skill: skill#>

The new part Require: # designates at least how many of the listed actors need to be present for the condition to be met.


Character Abilities

An alternative is that if anywhere in your party an actor exists that reacts to another actor or actors then some form of Character ability manifests. whether this requires the character on the battle team or not should be toggle-able.For the required actor to simply be someone anywhere in support rows I see this:

Abilities 1.png

or for anyone to be found anywhere.

Abilities 3.png

<check for: actorX, actorX,... set state/learn skill:state#/skill#>

for the character to be required in the battle row

Abilities 2.png

<check brow:"  ">
Paradigms

It would feature two class typings, one would be a kind of static one, and that would really matter, it would exist in the form of Commander, or Supporter etc. This would only have an effect on the battle team in direct reference to the actor's position in the battle row. in the spoiler above I talk about this a bit I'll input the example here:
If a Commander exists in the first position, then all attacks that follow the commander's attack would be boosted. However if a Technician exists in the last position then all attacks before the Technician's would be boosted.I would imagine the type setting would be like this in the Actor Note tag

<Type: type#>

This is expecting that the scripter put in the script a default name for that type, and the type could be changed. OR, an idea I suddenly had while typing this request:

<Class:class#>

This would simply draw from RPGmaker's Class tab in the database.

Paradigms.png

Paradigms would only care about your Battle Row set up.

For the case of specific classes in specific positions, in the class note tage, I could see this:

<check pos: 1,2,3,or 4 buff: parameter>

in the <buff parameter> it would specifically buff only the battle row members.

For like my example of Commander I know specifically setting rules for Movement order could be hard so I look at it like this (in the Commander's class note tag):

<check pos: 1 buff: Atk 30%>

<check pos: 1 buff: M.Atk 30%>

So a Commander, in the lead position of the Battle Row would buff everyone in the Battle Rows Attack/M.Attack damage by 30%

The second class typing would simply denote a character's special stat, the stat that is their strong point, therefore it is their stat the grows the fastest. (attack type classes would have higher attack, tank type classes would have higher defense). For example, a character who is a commander with High Magic Attack would be denoted as Commander/M.Atk

In the Actor's Notetag:

<Growth: parameter>
Stat Boosts

For the earlier mentioned Stat boosts from characters the point of the second type is so that when you place that actor in a support row their special stat is pushed through a formula (editable maybe?) and added to the column head's stats.for example, the formula multiplier is (special stat*.5)+column head's related stat = final stat calculation

If we apply it like this...

Eric's special stat = attack =100

Natalie's Special Stat = Speed = 100

If Eric is the head of the column Natalie is in and his speed stat is 67 the formula would do this:

(Natalie's 100 speed*.5)+ Eric's 67 speed = Eric's Final Speed of 117

As this would not be attachable in the note tag of any section... I would not know how the coding for this would possible look.

Special Stat.png

Attack being the Highest Value it would be the "Special Stat"
If we throw it all together:

This is a full arrangement of different characters in their slots. Prior knowledge of mentioned characters not needed.

(Cirno)     (Satori)   (Yukari)     (Ran) <-- In Battle Party
(Rumia)    (Koishi)   (Chen)       (Sakuya)
(Wriggle)  (Okuu)    (Yuyuko)    (Youyumou)
(Mystia)    (Orin)     (Reimu)      (Rei'sen)

I actually really like this set up. some of the things I am going to skip over are stat bonuses, and the support row PSC possibilities.

First we open up with the first rows Classes.
Cirno (Commander/Ice "Spellsword")
Satori (Crippler/Mage)
Yukari (Commander/Tower) *Tower is an high P.Atk, P.Def, M.Def, HP class, however, abominable speed, and M.Atk
Ran (Technician/Support)

Now lets get in with the Paradigms active here, there are three.

1. Cirno as Commander, and... Yukari as Commander. Only Cirno would give the attack buff because they occupy first position.

2. Satori as Crippler, if Satori follows a commander, her chance to debuff is boosted. this called, "Marked Targets"

3. Ran as Technician giving "Efficiency" Boosting the stats of those who attack ahead of her.
 That was the easy part...

The Synergy(s) present: there are 4, (because there are 4 columns).
Column 1: Team 9, Cirno's bonuses (or whomever happens to be from that group) from everyone's special power is increased by 1.5x
Column 2: Reckless Confidence, Satori's Speed and Offense is increased, but her defense is lowered.
Column 3: Border Girls, Reimu and Yukari's lower stats are equalized at highest value.
Column 4: Shared Burden, The current head of the column makes all of the others highest stats her own, at the cost of her Special power bonus being multiplied by .5x

Abilities: There are a ton.
Yukari's Puppet Master
Ran's Master and Servent
Cirno's Baka (Will occasionally forget, and shrug off Beneficial & Harmful effects, as long as a more intelligent character (such as Yukari/Ran) is present in the Battle Party)
Satori/Koishi's Mind Sight (as long as Both Satori and Koishi are present anywhere, with at least one on the front lines, conveys the entire party a chance to mass evade an oncoming attack).
Sakuya/Youmu Meeting of Steel. Every other turn Raises both of their P.Atk, by +.2x as long as they both are in a support row.
Okuu/Orin, Team Work if both are present in the Battle party, which ever attacks first, the other's related attack is factored and added to total damage, at the cost of the latter having their turn skipped.
After thoughts

Something that would likely be needed is a new formation window that allows you to specifically align characters to slots.
A final couple parts I was kinda toying around with is some kind of Baton Pass like skill to cycle actors in a column.

The other was that if a character was incap'd and not revived with the next turn, they would be automatically cycled with the next character in that column.

Some other things I kinda pointed at in the long spoiler was a substitution system where characters will take a set % of damage in place on others based on ability and it could swap up who takes it and how much.

a few other ability's the characters could have:

turn skipping

auto res with/without penalties

Forced setting of stats based on stat differences

The support rows can dynamically change stats in the background during the battle.
I know it was long.... but you made it. you made it all the way... even if you did just say "Long post? TL;DR,". I at least thank you for stopping in and listening to my psychotic system. Any Feedback is totally, totally appreciated. If something is seems weird, please tell me and I'll attempt to clarify.

If someone does take their precious time to write a script... my lord, thank you~ <3 If you have any questions ANY questions please PM me right away I would be happy to help... just try to remember I'm posting this request because I know literally nothing about programming Ruby, or any computer language for that matter.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

skymen

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2013
Messages
46
Reaction score
5
First Language
French
Primarily Uses
Hey, it's a mega mess of text you got there ^^
I've had a really hard time reading even the beginning.
Could you put on some pictures of Paint-drawn things that would explain what you wanna do instead of putting a lot of text?
Also, as soon as I fully understand what you want, I'll be happy to help you out.
 

Draktheron

Queen of the Sky Sailor, Wonderful
Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
17
Reaction score
9
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
Hey, it's a mega mess of text you got there ^^

I've had a really hard time reading even the beginning.

Could you put on some pictures of Paint-drawn things that would explain what you wanna do instead of putting a lot of text?

Also, as soon as I fully understand what you want, I'll be happy to help you out.
I will try. I'm not very good at explaining things at all, and am even worse at trying to show things, I'll try to lay out some visual examples though.
 

skymen

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2013
Messages
46
Reaction score
5
First Language
French
Primarily Uses
Kinda got it.
It's like a Placement War system (Like in World War One) with some front battle row and some support rows at the back.
What you want is making 16 characters, each one having an ability that is activated if another (specific or not) actor is located at another (specific or not) place.

I think, you can manage placement in a 2D array like this:
If 1 = normal soldier
2 = commander

3= medicine /doctor

4 = tactician
That would look like something like this:

1 , 1 , 2 , 1
2 , 3 , 1 , 1
4 , 1 , 3 , 2

3 , 3 , 1 , 4

In that arrangement, character abilities would be:
1 are stronger if 2 is in the same row (+10% or 2's power)
2 are more powerful if 4 is in the row right behind them (+10% of 4's intelligence)
3 are faster if anyone is injured and in the same row (5% more per injury)
The more 4 is in the back rows, the more intelligence he get (+5% per row)

However, if there is no 4 in the two front rows, 1 loses 40% of his strength and 2 looses 50% of his power
3 are very weak, so the can not be put in the 2 front rows for too long or they will die. If the 4 people in a row are injured, they all loose 50% of their main stat
2 are commanders. Only one per row or there will not agree, causing a loss of 50% of each one's ability
4 hate 1, if they are both in the same row, 4 will lose 20% of his stat per 1 in his row
1 cannot go to the fourth row. If he does so for more than 2 or 3 turns, he is declared as a deserter and will be shot by the commander like if he were a coward.

This is an exemple of what could be made with your system. This also mean that I find your idea fantastic.
Tell me if I'm wrong, and if not, can you make a description of your characters like I did?
So that if any good scripter comes in, he will be able to script that out, and if not, I'll try to do it, and if I can't, I'll try eventing it. If I still can't, I'll at least give you what I began doing, so that you have some sort of basis.
 

Draktheron

Queen of the Sky Sailor, Wonderful
Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
17
Reaction score
9
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
That is in it's essence what I was talking about. A little generalized, a few things I had not considered, like the negative effects, or counting the number of unit types. I'll probably copy down the specific example I placed in the first spoiler.
 

MeowFace

Meow
Veteran
Joined
Feb 22, 2015
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
186
First Language
Meowish
Primarily Uses
Why not simply use Tomoaky's party system? There's no boost/debuff like what you want. But you get to set up back up members for each battler that randomly help out in the battle.

[IMG]http://hikimoki.sakura.ne.jp/rgss3/ScreenShot/tmteam_001.jpg[/IMG]

Link:

http://hikimoki.sakura.ne.jp/rgss3/script_neta/tmteam.rb

Vocab(wordings) and the switch to turn the command on/off in menu can be set in the script.

A simple google translate (right click translate for chrome) should get you going if you can't understand Japanese.

example:

Code:
module TMTEAM  VOCAB_TEAM = "Party"  VOCAB_TEAM_UNIT = "'s Team"  SW_USE_TEAM = 15 #Switch to turn on/off the menu command  HELP_TEXT = "Please set up the parties\n\\C[3]Parties will reset when you change formation"end
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Draktheron

Queen of the Sky Sailor, Wonderful
Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
17
Reaction score
9
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
No, because the stat changes, paradigms and synergies wouldn't exist, which are the core features of this system. It's not just random skills from the back rows, it revolves around knowing your team and setting them up in a specific way to provided the greatest statistical advantage, and contingency coverage possible.
 

skymen

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2013
Messages
46
Reaction score
5
First Language
French
Primarily Uses
Okay, if you could gimme EXACTLY the commands you wanna get, I'll try doing a code base for you to use in events (or in scripts) so that you can do what you wanna do.
For the moment, these are what I'll do: 

CONDITIONS
is_present?
is_in_row?(int)
same_row?(id1, id2)
same_column?(id1, id2
is_in_column?(int)
is_at_pos?(int, int)
is_empty?(int, int)
has_state?(id, stateid)
COMMANDS
set_stat(id, int)
set_state(id, bool)
attack(id1, id2)
switch(id1, id2)
defend(id1)
attack_multiple(id1, hash)
defend_multiple(hash)
set_row(int)
set_column(int)
set_position(int, int)
set_turn
VALUES
turn
position(id)
row(id)
column(id)
hp(id)
stat(id, statid)
state(id)

Please tell if there are ones you wont need and tell me if there are ones that are missing.
 

Latest Threads

Latest Profile Posts

party time.png
If you've played Knight Shift Chapter 1 this image'll mean something to you. If not, that's also fine!
Here's a medical question for ya: Why do I start lightly coughing after I drink coffee?
Well, someone "reviewed" my game. Didn't credit me anywhere in the video and spent 2 minutes insulting it. Going to ignore that and move on.
To cut down on map lag, I've been researching how to implement a lighting layer as a single map overlay instead of a bunch of individual lights. Hopefully I'll have a screenshot soon!
Imagine having a game broken up into a whole bunch of chapters? Like Chapter 11 should be about the party members going bankrupt.

Forum statistics

Threads
117,264
Messages
1,105,958
Members
153,440
Latest member
VicArt
Top