Verboten Word

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CrowStorm

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I apologize if this isn't the right forum, this site has a LOT of subforums and it can be hard to figure out what goes where, I'm not trying to ignore the rules or to be difficult.

Anyway, this thread is actually not about the profanity filter (incidentally, there was a joke built into this sentence at first where I was going to call it the GD MFing CSing profanity filter and just let the filter itself cover me so it turned out as whatever spoonerisms were output: instead I found out by accident that MFing and CSing are not covered by the profanity filter and those are actually pretty bad swears. I was curious so I checked and weirdly enough the filter gets CSer when it's used as a noun, not an adverb, but it doesn't seem to be programmed to get MFer at all. Also, fellow potty mouths/grammarians, yes, MFer has an ADVERB form, isn't that exciting?)
Anyway, that isn't what this thread is aboot.

Recently I used the common four letter word for a member of the NSDAP (National Socialist German Worker's Party), you know, it rhymes with Yahtzee? And it was edited out of my post and I got a little notification about it in my notifications to let me know it was edited out of my post.

Now while I didn't know about this rule, the use of that word in that thread was TOTALLY unnecessary, it was literally another "rhymes with" thing, in this case how people typically pronounce the acronym for Wizards of the Coast--WotC rhymes with Yahtzee rhymes with the word I'm talking tip-toe circles around--so I have no issues with it getting censored in that instance.

However...one of many, many game ideas kicking around my head includes one where the NSDAP are the primary antagonists. Could I make a thread in Games In Development or Game Ideas using that word w/o doing the ridiculous dance around it I'm doing in this thread. Like, to be clear, I am 100% meaning literal actual historical NSDAP members, not calling someone on the forums (or even someone not on the forums) the forbidden word, just talking about my game (idea) where you kill a whole lot of...y'know.

Actually, related question...if this word is verboten everywhere, how would one talk about, idk, Call of Duty WWII or Wolfenstein: The New Colossus (the latter is much more worth talking about but that's neither here nor there) without using the convenient four letter word rhyming with Yahtzee that describes the antagonists of THOSE games? Very, very circumspectly?
 

MushroomCake28

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Just keep in mind that since this is a corporate forum we try to be safer than sorry. Public speech is protected by free speech (First Amendement in the US, Charter in Canada, and laws in other developed countries I'm sure), but it can have consequences for private entities like us.

Personally as I mod I would censor the word when its use isn't necessary and/or not related to game making. If it was a discussion about an antagonist organisation in a game, I would probably allow it. I don't know what my fellow moderators think about that though.
 
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Dreadshadow

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Letting words describing such ideologies untouched, is like not acting versus hate speech and that's why this is a sensitive case. I am not accusing you that using the word the way you did had any bad intentions or was promoting that ideology.
On contrary, I believe words should not get censored. Words are words, context is what matters most.
But my opinion is insignificant here, since this is a global forum on the internet. Internet is full of people and people have different cultures and experiences.Imagine a person that had a casualty, maybe a relative, who died on Dachau. Ouch. They would be triggered.
Do you know what rhymes with the word trigger? Yeah! Right. Another word that is a no-no.
Just because something rhymes with a taboo word, it doesn't mean I should or would use it.
But you know what? Context still matters. It is a cultural taboo to use that word, if you are white. Why? Well let's say that slavery was a white man's 'bad habit' with a few glorious exception (Google Jose Marti).

Back to your case and your word. So some people would get easily triggered and they would be right. The word was used randomly, just cause it rhymes with another. Not cool. On the other hand, if a thread is about a game that has these guys as enemies, I think it would be all right to use it in the description and stuff but the thread would be a hot potato, since awkward discussions could start from there and things could escalate rapidly.

We shall adapt to cultural changes, because we can't do otherwise on a corporate forum on the internet.
Your word was censored to avoid any drama from other members and you were informed, because it's the right thing to do, instead of editing something and not informing you at all I guess. I think that the moderator who did this, acted all right.
 

CrowStorm

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My main takeaway here is that it's context specific, not a blanket ban, and that's fine. That is a sane policy. Generally speaking, most sane policies consider context. Anyway one of these days I really do want to make a game where you kill a bunch of Nazis (they are the standard videogame antagonist after all) as...something...you wouldn't expect to be killing Nazis (I had a fun thread about it back on RMN in welp), so it's good to know that I'll be able to like, request resources of Nazi sprites or whatever w/o breaking the rule. Like I said, sane policy.

Imagine a person that had a casualty, maybe a relative, who died on Dachau. Ouch. They would be triggered.
As it happens, I do have family--ancestors actually feels like a better word considering the generational gap--that were killed during the Holocaust. Obviously, I am not "triggered" by the word Nazi. It's a very necessary word in the US because it pretty much accurately describes the views of around 20-30% of the American population (which is TERRIFYING).

Further Digressions:
I try to respect people's triggers when they're reasonable.

Personally, the only thing that triggers me is violence towards small animals, and that is because my four pound Yorkshire Terrier was murdered by a neighbor's pitbull right before my eyes. Like, my hands were in the pitbull's mouth getting torn to shreds trying to pry its jaws open just to get my poor little baby's body out of its mouth. After that we rushed him to the vet in the neighbor's car running every red light and breaking every traffic rule on the way...but he was already dead, probably since before we got him in the car. There was so much blood and...yeah. It was legitimately traumatic.

I only bring up this awful event because it is the reason why I make an attempt to respect people's triggers today. I used to be very much the "toughen up, snowflake" type. Then one day last year or this year I tried to rewatch a (bugshit crazy, but that goes without saying when you're talking about this director's early work) Takashii Miike film I remembered enjoying in college or high school (I think it was Gozu) and within the first five minutes some Yakuza goon or whatever was swinging around a small dog by its leash over his head like you hurl a shot put and yeah...turned it off, never turned it back on, and made a note to myself that being triggered is definitely a real thing. Kind of weird because I can watch more or less anything happening to humans on TV and in films and videogames and be completely unfazed, but whatever. Dogs > People
 

MushroomCake28

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@CrowStorm I think you identified the correct solution: reasonable and sane policy. Sometimes it's all about context. Nazis in video games is totally fine (for me personally).
 

Bex

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Edit: Deleted, sorry i got Political =).

The Game Wolfenstein was forbidden in Germany for many Years.
Later on it was allowed without red blood and without Svastikas in it.
Nowadays it seems to be liberal and a little bit more free and little bit like in every other country.
 
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CrowStorm

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I adored Wolfenstein 2: The New Colossus, even though it was hard AF (for me anyway, all those years of shooters with regenerating health made me soft), because it was such

*sings a little Twisted Sister*

"We're not gonna take it
Oh no, we ain't gonna take it
We're not gonna take it anymoorrree!"

It seems weird that Germany would ban the original Wolfenstein. I mean, it's not pro-Nazi. In fact, you spend the entirety of it killing Nazis so it's a pretty explicit condemning Nazism. It reminds me of how I've heard since high school how Japanese history books supposedly just omit Japan's role in starting/escalating WWII and other inconvenient facts entirely (I've never confirmed this was ever true, and certainly have no idea if it still is so no offense to any Japanese users). But anyway, Germany in the 90s censoring the original Wolfenstein games seems to me to be in that spirit of the German gov't trying to erase their past/pretend it didn't happen: not cool. The rationale might have been difference but @Bex would know better than I would, as he's German.
 
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gstv87

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MFing and CSing are not covered by the profanity filter
giving the fact that English lends itself to using multiple adjectives to come up with new words, you'd have to censor the entire language.
this doesn't happen in Spanish.... you can't say the equivalent of CS-ker without using two words, and one of them will always be picked up.

......there are, however, ways around it, if you use the equivalent of Engrish, and bend a few grammar rules.
 

CrowStorm

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giving the fact that English lends itself to using multiple adjectives to come up with new words, you'd have to censor the entire language.
One of many reasons I'm stridently anti-censorship and have been forever but, as was mentioned this is an official "corporate" forum and that's a valid point.

Anyway, I'm actually semi-fluent in Spanish, took 6 years of it!

Digression about language (not foul language, just language).

I never have the guts to talk to native Spanish speakers IRL because I'm pretty sure my spoken Spanish will sound like horrible Engrish, but I can kind of follow the plot/dialogue in Spanish from films and television without really needing the sub-titles, and I'd probably be able to have a text message/e-mail conversation with someone in Spanish without needing to resort to Google Translate. Native Spanish speakers tend to speak very fast--the same way I must no doubt seem to be speaking English at a mile a minute to some non-native English speakers--which is a big part of the challenge. "Mas despacio por favor" (roughly "please slow down") is the most useful Spanish phrase I know. I know most of the Spanish swear words from movies, tv, and videogames, so I could always recognize when my co-workers at my crap retail job, who were almost entirely English/Spanish bilingual, were cursing, just not what they were cursing about.

The title of a chapter in my game and a rejected title for the game itself is La Curandera. A chapter in same game is called Tres Brujas. Ironically, the title of the game is in Latin.
 

Dreadshadow

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Ah @CrowStorm you should know that Takashii Miike is one of my favorite directors, mostly because of his horror movies. But it is a shocking director. What you witnessed on Gozu's start fo the movie, was a mad man. And I mean it. Madness. The dog was literally innocent. The guy's madness was introduced in a shocking way. You stopped the film there. I envy you. I watched the whole thing with a friend. The whole thing. And it was a weird horror movie with a splash of trolling in the end.
If Gozu triggered you, avoid his movies, cause there is one where he deconstructs all of the social constructs one by one to reconstruct a ruined family. That movie just made me numb. And it was very artistic, because nothing else had made me feel numb till then. It has a "happy ending" but I was like WTF!
I can't talk much about these movies on PG13 threads in public but you got the point.

Also, there is nothing wrong being sensitive. you can be tough and still be sensitive.
 

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It seems weird that Germany would ban the original Wolfenstein. I mean, it's not pro-Nazi. In fact, you spend the entirety of it killing Nazis so it's a pretty explicit condemning Nazism.
*chimes in*

Murdering Nazis wasn't the issue. It was (and still is) not allowed to show Nazi-symbolism - e.g., the Swastika - for entertainment-only purposes. If you show any Nazi symbols, you need to do so in a context of education, satire, art etc. You must not do so for a political agenda, for "tasteless" entertainment purposes, to make light of Nazi crimes etc. Back then, video games were not considered an art form in Germany, but "just" entertainment. That sentiment is, slowly but steadily, changing now.

So, Wolfenstein 1 fell into the no-good category, and back then most companies didn't bother to make separate versions just for the German market, considering the game might probably end up on the AO lists and as such, making public advertisement impossible. The sequel is well available in German as a fully localized version - though the swastikas are still no where to be found (I think they even made up a new name for the enemies, not sure about that, not a big shooter guy myself).

Side note, as games are still not really considered an art form, there is debate going on about it. Why is it okay to show nazi symbolism in a satiric way in a movie, like for example, Inglorious Basterds, but not a video game? That debate is going to last a while though, considering the German state is extremely anxious when it comes to Nazi symbolism. They, under no circumstances, want to appear even for a nano second that they take the NS era lightly in any shape or form. And I think that is a righteous approach.

Right, sorry for the history rant, probably not all that interesting. Sometimes, I just can't help myself... ^-^;

*chimes out*

Edit:

But anyway, Germany in the 90s censoring the original Wolfenstein games seems to me to be in that spirit of the German gov't trying to erase their past/pretend it didn't happen: not cool.
Would also like to stress that this is not the case. The Nazi crimes are well discussed in Germany, and mandatory subject in all levels of German public schools (and the state-required national curriculum) for all students, for several school years. Most schools also have mandatory trips to concentration camp historic sites for educational purposes (I myself went to Dachau with my class back in the day, a horrific experience yet still an important one, in case any generation would ever come close to even remotely repeating such horrors).
 
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Kes

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This thread has wandered far from the original point, and that point was answered. As this section is for Site Feedback, and the last few posts have nothing to do with the site, I am closing this.
 
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