Violence, Sexual Themes, etc. When is too much too much?

[Nekohime1989]

I thought I would get the opinion of other developers here since my game contains some elements of this. All games on here have to abide by a R13 rating as far as I know. But Im curious where other developers draw between R13 from R18. For me I would say it should be obvious. If you wouldn't let your mother play the game it's R18 or basically anything obscene is where i draw the line.

 

[Archayr]

I love me some Otome game. The few that I've played and liked are super PG at worse. But hell I'd rather keep that sort of games for myself, far away from my mother for sure. That wouldn't make it 18+ rated though.

If you want a more standard method of rating your game or know where your game place itself in that spectrum, something like PEGI Labels could be a good base line.

 

[Bastrophian]

Personally, I think presentation plays a big role in how something (a scene, a character and its actions in the story) will be received. Theres a game called Pocket Mirror (i think its actually on steam for free too ) it was a psychological horror themed game that I enjoyed very much, and from what I remember it did have quite a bit of blood and maybe a little gore, and I think even a some sexual suggestive bits of story. If I were in charge of the rules I wouldn't personally have any issue posting it here on the forums, because even though it did have some of those elements I believe they were handled and presented well enough that I wouldn't mind of my 14 y/o niece wanted to play it. So, I guess my R18 line is, if its basically soft core porn or even more than that, meaning showing scenes of the act as its taking place, or showing scenes of the bad guy/ monster ripping the helpless victim limb from limb and chewing on their bones as they scream...... so yeah <_< . lol

 

[Pix3M]

IMO, if violence of sexual themes are added for edginess sake or something and detracts from the core game, that's too much

 

[bgillisp]

If it is added just to have it there, then it is too much. All items in your game you need to make sure they are needed, and if not you can cut them and still have a good game. For example, having your healer run around in a mini-skirt flashing her underwear at you all day adds nothing that has to be there to the game, and at that point it is pretty obvious that if you did that in your game you only did that to put it there.

 

[Andar]

There are two different things at work here - the legal part and the opinion part.

For the legal part, PG-13 is exactly defined and if anything goes beyond that definition it cannot be allowed here because this forum is under corporate/business laws.

For the opinion parts, people have different things they consider appropiate or not based on their countries and culture.
For example I know action games that were for Age-16 in the USA but their blood and gore content were so excessive that they went directly to the "index" in Germany (That is a level beyond R-18 in Germany as in that they are not only R-18, but also forbidden to be displayed even in an R-18 zone and can only be sold on specific request).
On the other hand I know a few family movies for Age-12 in Germany that contain scenes with topless female, simply because nudity is not automatically associated with sexuality here. And there are other cultures where people didn't even care about nudity at all.

 

[trouble time]

It depends on the product and its target audience.

 

[kirbwarrior]

If you wouldn't let your mother play the game it's R18 or basically anything obscene is where i draw the line.

That wouldn't work with me, if I made a full on porn game and my mom wanted to check it out, I wouldn't stop her. But she also isn't much of a gamer so I wouldn't actively ask her to play something even as innocent as Tetris.

having your healer run around in a mini-skirt flashing her underwear at you all day adds nothing that has to be there to the game

I understand the sentiment, but what if that was an actual part of her faith or code? It could be a nice twist on religions in the game, it could be something she doesn't do out of want but tradition, etc.

For the legal part, PG-13 is exactly defined and if anything goes beyond that definition it cannot be allowed here because this forum is under corporate/business laws.

It is? Do you have a link? I've found it incredibly hard to find an objective, quantifiable list that can be adhered to. Even in film it's largely subjective. "Non-graphic" is easy to understand but I often seen "justifiable" thrown around and that's incredibly easy to misinterpret.

On the other hand I know a few family movies for Age-12 in Germany that contain scenes with topless female, simply because nudity is not automatically associated with sexuality here. And there are other cultures where people didn't even care about nudity at all.

Culture definitely matters. In the US, it's fairly safe to assume that nudity should be avoided and over-the-top violence is better than gore.

If it is added just to have it there, then it is too much. All items in your game you need to make sure they are needed, and if not you can cut them and still have a good game.

This I definitely agree with and want to echo. There are many games that add it just to boost sales, it doesn't mean the game is better and can directly make it worse.

For purposes of posting it on this site, I find the simplest solution is "don't push boundaries" (at least until I find a proper list watch as it's actually obvious and I just missed it)

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

@kirbwarrior that is exactly why you as the dev should ask first if it makes sense to your game. If your healer running around in a mini-skirt is part of the game's religion then we can argue that it is in fact needed in the game. Though ofc we can also say that its a very weak reason, and more like its there just to have a reason. The least you could do maybe is to have a good explanation as to why it ended up that way, in case you really want to explain it.

But again this only touches the opinion part of this matter. If we are to talk of the legal side then these opinions barely matter as there are standards and measures that are set for it.

 

[Nekohime1989]

There are 3 standards that I know of US, EU, and Japan. And they vary greatly.
When it comes to indie games released world wide over the internet. Their isn't really a set of standards to go by.
What would score a D here in japan might score a AO and 18 in the other to regions.

 

[Mordridakon]

I go by "Is it gratuitous?" If it is, keep it out, unless the point is to be gratuitous, then I keep it in.

 

[bgillisp]

The easiest way to handle that is if you want to sell to a world wide audience, you use the strictest set of standards. That way you comply with all of them. Otherwise you may have to choose where to sell your game to in order to comply legally.

 

[TWings]

Well technically, if you sell your game on the web, anyone in the world can buy it whether it complies with the buyer's country laws or not.

 

[bgillisp]

Technically, yes, but a good digital store should check like say stores here should as well. Of course whether they do it or do it well is another debate altogether.

 

[Lornsteyn]

Well most things are okay, I play everything if it looks interesting to me, in many cases it depends if the main characters are appeling to me.
Sexual hmm....I played some of the most famous hentai games 2-3 years ago, so no problems here for me.
There are no rules, games are art, everything is allowed, that is my opinion.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Our rules for the forums are mostly "Is it gratuitous". Like if you are toeing the line, or stepping slightly over, I don't think anyone will ever say anything. But if it is running past the line sprinting, that's another story.

On a personal level, I have the opinion that almost any subject or theme can be turned into a game, some just take a lot more care and consideration than others.

 

[kirbwarrior]

that is exactly why you as the dev should ask first if it makes sense to your game. If your healer running around in a mini-skirt is part of the game's religion then we can argue that it is in fact needed in the game. Though ofc we can also say that its a very weak reason, and more like its there just to have a reason. The least you could do maybe is to have a good explanation as to why it ended up that way, in case you really want to explain it.

I absolutely agree, and it being hard to know is an important part of rating. Probably the most extreme example I can think of is Kill la Kill where the sexualization and nudity is (from what I can tell) on the level of parody, but if you look at it as a side effect of the plot then it's downright necessary. While an anime made by the same people in Gurren Lagann seems to have gratuity for no reason and from what I've seen almost works against the story. The tropes "Porn with plot" and "Plot with porn" don't help as a guideline either XD

On a personal level, I have the opinion that almost any subject or theme can be turned into a game, some just take a lot more care and consideration than others.

Oh, absolutely, and that's not just gratuity either. Goat Simulator is apparently extremely popular and I remember hearing about a game where the mechanics of the game are "You're a mother, this entire game is an escort quest".

 

[Nekohime1989]

I know some web games have ratings. I know a Casino game that got rating online. The thing is, you can sell unrated products. Their is no law saying you cant. You just risk offending some country and getting it banned. Just look what happened to Rockstar.

 

[somenick]

Well I think you could make a game involving controversial stuff in a way that its not a big deal if a very young person plays it. For example, you could have this guy who is gonna go at it with a woman he met at some bar. Instead of showing all the actual act and what not, just make a scene where they are headed to a room then fade out the screen, and fast forward the story to the next morning, showing them leaving or whatever. Kids will not really get much of that scene (and if they do its not because of my game), but everyone else knows what happened.

 

[bgillisp]

@somenick : That is true, and is pretty much what I do in my game. Nothing shown, just implied. Let the audience decide what they think really happened.