Violence, Sexual Themes, etc. When is too much too much?

[TWings]

Well I think you could make a game involving controversial stuff in a way that its not a big deal if a very young person plays it. For example, you could have this guy who is gonna go at it with a woman he met at some bar. Instead of showing all the actual act and what not, just make a scene where they are headed to a room then fade out the screen, and fast forward the story to the next morning, showing them leaving or whatever. Kids will not really get much of that scene (and if they do its not because of my game), but everyone else knows what happened.

It depends on who you're targeting too. But I completely agree.
I also prefer to imply the adult content instead of showing (Bonus : it also saves the need for specific arts). I got some scenes that are exactly that way (faded-out with some funny sounds).
One thing that I have more trouble to deal with though is death and killing. Not that I show pools of blood or anything, but I don't think those are very kids friendly (although it was ok in Bambi, so maybe it's just me ?).

 

[Marquise*]

It reminds me of...

 

[samkfj]

There's a fine line between tasteful and gratuitous.

Tasteful is the act occurring to accentuate the narrative, while gratuitous is to focus primarily on the act; be it sex or violence.

If you've ever heard the saying "less is more" that can apply to these situations, especially if you're working at a PG-13 vs R rating. That doesn't mean to not have it in your game--but not take focus away from the overall point of the game--only to accentuate it.

However--if your game's point is gratuitous sex or violence--then you'll already know what kind of game you're making.

If two characters are going to have sex; you can have as much fun with that as you want--but the moment nudity is shown, you've passed into an R or 18 rating. If--more sexy things happen and it's shown on screen with imagery, video or sound, then you've crossed into A/O.

With violence--killing a character is enough, but including copious amounts of gore imagery and sounds would put you closer to an R/18 rating.

Another thing to consider--cursing, alcohol, drugs, gambling, and certain crimes can also put you at an 18 rating; depending on the situations.

 

[Marquise*]

I agree with @samkfj . But I know a game R rating that is also not just gratuitous. It set a full franchise on but being a right amount of dosage between dark humor and starting the CoC trend (Consequence of Choices) we love so much in a RPG. Althought the player could had control over gore (and language too? I don't remember) the idea was to make it as realistic and depressing as possible. But they knew they didn't wanted kids playing with that. So the folks who buyed the franchise have nerfed 3D versions that weight a ton of graphics and I can tell now it isn't just CoC in front with the player able to avoid most of the gore but more railroaded with fun with organs and the cussing, drugs, -they are not anymore able to handle well gambling- and all crimes you can imagine to just say they made mature games. Well I say it is adult themed right, but not as much mature as I think it should be as it is not as seriously handled.

When we think about it, the Back To The Future trilogy is not as innocent as expected; there is incestuous undertones that made Disney not want of the first movie, and when you get by the second bit, the dystopian future, bullying murderer and so on is really in there with all criminal elements, gambling etc... They had to cut a scene in the third where it was shown that Mad Dog Tannen killed the sheriff and his boy swore to continue on his job.

Of course it got in inverse direction as what happened with Robocop that ended up a cartoon and selling kids toys for what was struggling not to get on R-rated and too gory, but still had a family movie undertones.

 

[Romanticist]

I think manga like Berserk did add violence and sex (and not consensual sex...) just for the sake of it, and it does so to a "gratuitous" degree. And yet the story is so good, and the violence is so awesome, that everyone loves it anyway - perhaps the R18 nature of it is what got them hooked in the first place.
If you're gonna add violence and sex, just make it badass, and not gross... unless it's a horror, in which case, make it as gross as possible. Also, do not add lighthearted comedy scenes right after some disgusting violence occurs, either; many anime do this and it really turns me off from the story.

It also depends on a person's preference, of course. Some people are more sensitive to this kind of thing. Keep your target audience in mind. So if you want your mother to play your game, then perhaps don't go to Berserk levels of violence, and keep it more along the likes of PG13 Hollywood (think Jurassic Park or even Harry Potter).

 

[kirbwarrior]

I think manga like Berserk did add violence and sex (and not consensual sex...) just for the sake of it, and it does so to a "gratuitous" degree.

From what I've seen of Berserk, it seems it's one of those stories that likes to emphasize how bad everything is and so it uses gratuity to push that message home. It wants you to feel what is happening, not merely imagine it, almost like you aren't allowed to look away.

 

[Milennin]

I've never been compelled to make anything that would go over a +13 (or whatever teen ratings there are). Personally, I don't think nudity is nearly as bad as ratings make it out to be, but for most, it seems to be a huge deal worth freaking out over. Context, and how a subject or scene is handled is way more important of a factor. With violence, I can usually get the rating it gets, but in the end, it's just computer graphics. I know I watched things that were rated above my age when I was a kid, and it never freaked me out, lol.

If it is added just to have it there, then it is too much. All items in your game you need to make sure they are needed, and if not you can cut them and still have a good game. For example, having your healer run around in a mini-skirt flashing her underwear at you all day adds nothing that has to be there to the game, and at that point it is pretty obvious that if you did that in your game you only did that to put it there.

The main point of doing that would be to appeal to a certain audience, the same as any other game does. A lot of things in games we play are unnecessary, yet they're there because the people it's aimed at like those things. Does Cloud need a buster sword when he could get the job done with a regular-sized sword? Not really, but people like big swords, so that's what they get.

 

[Romanticist]

.

 

[kirbwarrior]

Does Cloud need a buster sword when he could get the job done with a regular-sized sword?

the Buster Sword makes no sense whatsoever

Cloud is likely the second strongest person in the universe when the scales are pretty extreme. I'm not even certain the Buster Sword is strong enough for him, let alone the other way around. Really, Sephiroth's sword makes less sense, I feel like it would break if he used his full strength.

It's still one of the absolute most disturbing things I've seen in fiction, and I remember it clearly after all these years

That only supports my point On that note, I can't think of much else in media that's affected me that much. The only three things that have gotten me that much is Silent Hill (1, but probably also 2 and 3), Viral, and The Voices. Deeply disturbing but also entirely necessary for the work.

On the note of nudity, I feel like there's a large difference between "sexual" and "casual" nudity. I've watched movies with the second and there are times I didn't notice it the first time.

 

[Hayden]

It all depends for me, and most of it comes down to why?

Is it sex and violence for the sake of shock factor? I don't like that. There's also plenty of sexual themes I just wouldn't write in certain things. Rape for example, is something I'd never make light of, but a game that highlights the way rape affects people I think is totally fine. It just has to be respectful and it has to tell me something about the subject.