Visible enemy HP bar

[LordZetta]

I'm kind of thorn on this, and would like to hear your opinions on the subject.

In one hand, a visible hp bar seems very good for slower, strategic style of battles, because you always know where you stand in a fight , making the combat deeper. On the other, it also gives a level of control that breaks immersion, which is a big problem when that slow paced style generally depends on it.

 

[ATT_Turan]

My opinion on the subject: I think that worrying about "immersion" in this style of game is not worthwhile.

You're looking down at everything in battle in this sort of isometric view, which (unless you're God in your free time ) is not particularly convincing to your senses.

Unless you've ripped it out, you have this whole huge UI present in battle which provides lots of numeric information on your party members - that's not immersive or realistic. I don't see how giving some degree of information about the enemies is any different.

If you were making an FPS with no HUD and debating whether to show numeric damage on the screen as opposed to a bloody red tinge in your vision, immersion would be a viable factor.

 

[Ouro]

I prefer to have at least a little indication of the boss' HP in relation to what I'm doing. Especially if you're gonna have a boss whose abilities trigger when it gets knocked below certain HP thresholds.

 

[LordZetta]

My opinion on the subject: I think that worrying about "immersion" in this style of game is not worthwhile.

You're looking down at everything in battle in this sort of isometric view, which (unless you're God in your free time ) is not particularly convincing to your senses.

Unless you've ripped it out, you have this whole huge UI present in battle which provides lots of numeric information on your party members - that's not immersive or realistic. I don't see how giving some degree of information about the enemies is any different.

If you were making an FPS with no HUD and debating whether to show numeric damage on the screen as opposed to a bloody red tinge in your vision, immersion would be a viable factor.

There are levels to immersion. Just because some parts of a game won't mirror real life 1 to 1, it doesn't automatically make it a non immersive game. It would be impossible to make a game like FFT(colorful chibi characters, isometric POV) feel immersive if what you said was true, yet it manages just fine by adding others factors to give you that feeling.

I think you have a point about the other meters already taking away some of that feeling(even though it's not a stretch for someone to know when they are hurt/out of energy). At the end of the day, the benefits are probably worth it.

 

[ATT_Turan]

It would be impossible to make a game like FFT...feel immersive if what you said was true, yet it manages just fine by adding others factors to give you that feeling.

If it works for you, then that's great As much as I love Final Fantasy Tactics, immersive is never a word I would choose to use when describing it.

The characters and their story are engaging, but nothing in the gameplay makes me feel like I'm a part of it.

 

[kirbwarrior]

In one hand, a visible hp bar seems very good for slower, strategic style of battles, because you always know where you stand in a fight , making the combat deeper. On the other, it also gives a level of control that breaks immersion, which is a big problem when that slow paced style generally depends on it.

I have some general thoughts this touches upon;
1) More information means more the player CAN do with your combat. You point this out, letting you lean into the already strategy-focused rpg style.
2) "Immersion" is too ephemeral to really define as part of your game. Players either will or won't find it immersive. And a big thing to remember is that games with combat are all simplistic approximations of fights that make things easier to grasp, you absolutely have to suspend disbelief for it to work.

Now, about it in specific;

it also gives a level of control that breaks immersion

People are far more aware of the state of things in a fight than most people give credit for. Even if you can't quantify how hurt you or your opponent are, you do know more about it than a player in a video game who sees HP bars does. Part of that is just regular instinct most living things have and you can't really "show" instinctive information in a video game.

 

[Milennin]

I'll never understand choosing to go without visible enemy HP, at least for bosses. For trash encounters, it admittedly doesn't really matter, but for bosses not seeing the enemy's HP means you're always going to play it safe because you don't know whether you can commit to setting up a finisher or when you're about to trigger a new boss phase. You also don't know how close you were to beating a boss if you lost, meaning you don't know by how much you're underlevelled/geared, or if your strategy didn't work out in the slightest. Of course, you can substitute enemy HP by just creating multiple artworks for the same enemy that change depending on how much the enemy's got left, but that's a lot of extra work for something that can be done much easier.
Immersion also comes from engagement with the game mechanics, and not knowing the enemy's HP means I'm already way less invested in your combat system due to lack of information that I need to make meaningful decisions in gameplay.

 

[desertbriar]

I play a lot of strategy rpgs. I strongly prefer to make informed decisions and not be kept in the dark about circumstances in a battle system. I couldn't imagine playing Fire Emblem or Triangle Strategy with no visible enemy hp.

Even if there is a skill to reveal enemy hp, it's just a tedious extra step just to find out the enemy's hp imo, just give the hp upfront.

 

[duty]

Echoing the sentiment in this thread, more information is preferable for a turn-based combat system. An enemy's current HP level makes a BIG difference in who you choose to hit with what.