HexMozart88

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@Canini Possibly, but I need to play some visual novels before I even hope to start. 
 

TriceratopsX

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@Canini Story? No. But the setting will probably be the same as my MV project "shared world" type thing. (Saves me the trouble of coming up with a whole new world XD)
 

Sharm

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Yes, but I have no script yet and I want to have the character concepts completely fleshed out before I start using the program.  In other words, I'm not actually anxious for the program release yet. I wouldn't be ready for it if I had it now.  I'm hoping the delay means it's going to be even better. :D
 

Celianna

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Yes, but I have no script yet and I want to have the character concepts completely fleshed out before I start using the program.  In other words, I'm not actually anxious for the program release yet. I wouldn't be ready for it if I had it now.  I'm hoping the delay means it's going to be even better. :D



The amount of setting up the groundwork before you dabble in the actual program is actually quite a lot of work ...


I mean, I've been working on my project for months, and the story is finished ... what's playable? Exactly zero minutes. But it's a start!
 

Canini

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@Celianna


Yeah I get what you are saying. A few years back I was working on a text adventure game as a "diversion" and the amount of groundwork tired me out completely and no actual playable amount of the game got done.


As for my own idea, I am working on a game that is a satire of current journalism the way the Ace Attorney games are a satire of the Japanese court system. So instead of defending suspected murderers you have to defend people´s lives ruined by slander and clickbait. Like the comet pizza guys:


http://fortune.com/2016/11/22/comet-ping-pong-hillary-clinton-fake-news/
 

Uthgard

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I realize this is probably outside the scope of the engine, but what would really make me happy (to the point of rapture-induced seizures) would be the possibility of making something like Princess Maker 2. I was addicted to that game.


Also, if there was a way to somehow bridge Visual Novel Maker with RPG Maker MV, that would be absolutely fantastic, as my projects tend to be dialog-heavy and a visual novel functionality would clearly work better than default MV (text log, saving mid-dialog, skipping already read text...).
 
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Palxan

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Minigames such as? 

I would love to see a mini-game:
 


(Link on YouTube)


I mean strip with running arrow.


It could attach to different quests - to gather flowers for the girls, pick the lock, catch a fish ... scope for imagination.
 
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Canini

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@Canini Story? No. But the setting will probably be the same as my MV project "shared world" type thing. (Saves me the trouble of coming up with a whole new world XD)



That is really cool! Unfortunately that is not possible for my own project as the world those takes place in are not suitable for visual novels. I have to come up with a brand new setting for that. I have seen some discussion, particularly on the steam page for visual novel maker about what constitutes a visual novel. There seems to be a divide between story-driven games with puzzles that fall under puzzle games instead of being visual novels. For the sake of the discussion and the furthering of my knowledge, would any of these games count as visual novels? Please be aware that I have chosen a few I pretty much know are not.


1 Ace Attorney


2 Professor Layton


3 Hotel Dusk


4 Trauma Center
 

Sharm

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1 Yes.  If you took out the searching for and presenting clues elements you'd very clearly have a Visual Novel.


2 No.  Other than similar visuals it has nothing in common with a VN.  If you count a story driven plot and needing to talk to the right person to trigger the next segment as a Visual Novel thing then you might as well count RPGs as a VNs too.


3 Never played, never seen anything about it, don't know.


4 Never played but I've seen a small clip of it.  Not sure.  From the clip it seemed like the focus was more on the gameplay and the dialogue didn't do more than thread the game elements together like it does most games.  Could be wrong though, like I said, haven't played it.


I count Mass Effect as a hybrid VN/Shooter.  Basically, if a good portion of the point of the game is the interaction with other characters though big dialogue trees, it's a VN for me. (No dialogue trees makes it a Kinetic Novel)


This is my own opinion though, I don't know that there is a very firm definition for this sort of thing, and I don't know that it matters.  VNs have a stigma attached to them for the people who haven't tried them, so it's not uncommon for things that are clearly visual novels to get rebranded as something else in an attempt to get people to give them a try.  It's been proven to work too, sadly.
 

kenibatz

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I count Mass Effect as a hybrid VN/Shooter.  Basically, if a good portion of the point of the game is the interaction with other characters though big dialogue trees, it's a VN for me. (No dialogue trees makes it a Kinetic Novel)



I have the same opinion regarding Telltale games (Tales from the Borderlands, The Wolf Among Us). I haven't played them yet, but the reviews I've read imply that they are more of interactive movies where your choices don't really matter, especially in contrast to games like "Life is Strange".

This is my own opinion though, I don't know that there is a very firm definition for this sort of thing, and I don't know that it matters.  VNs have a stigma attached to them for the people who haven't tried them, so it's not uncommon for things that are clearly visual novels to get rebranded as something else in an attempt to get people to give them a try.  It's been proven to work too, sadly.



This is an unfortunate truth about VNs, but understandable. VNs can be quite effective as a storytelling format.
 
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Archeia

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I count Mass Effect as a hybrid VN/Shooter.  Basically, if a good portion of the point of the game is the interaction with other characters though big dialogue trees, it's a VN for me. (No dialogue trees makes it a Kinetic Novel)

I would disagree since not all VNs have dialogue trees. See Narcissu and Planetarium. Mass Effect would be an RPG/Shooter. It's like how people confuse RPGs and Dating SIms with Visual Novels.


Like we have talks about VNs and one of the things is that:


In novels, the story happened. In visual novels, the story is happening.  The story is often told in present tense instead of past tense. The story's Point of View is told in First Person and a combination of Unreliable Narrator.  This make Visual Novels easier to transition to Hybrid Genres. Meanwhile,in Novel Writing, this is often frowned upon. You are a screenwriter rather than novel writer. Everything from music, art, direction, etc. serves to control the flow and rhythm of the story. This means the writer has control over the reader's flow versus a Novel where the reader has absolute control (e.g. you can start at the end if you want than in the beginning). Dialogue is the flow. It has to be at least 90% ~ 99% Narrative either in ADV/NVL/Other Variations like comic form. All gameplay elements must complement this narrative.



Mass Effect doesn't hit this with those annoying side missions of finding all the bots. It has a lot of elements that doesn't lead to an end or entirely separate from its main narrative and removes that immersion. You have a choice whether you want to return to the main narrative anytime. Telltale games are more akin to Adventure Games.


999 is a puzzle visual novel. The puzzles are an integral part of the narrative and affects the overall arching story. Hotel Dusk is a Visual Novel. Seinarukana's gameplay is related heavily to its theme. Little Buster's baseball minigame also serves an outcome in the story (even though it's entirely skippable and you can just RNG their stats every 'training' session). Utawarerumono and Tears to Tiara are also visual novels where their gameplay serves a narrative support to put emphasis on the epic story. 
 
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kenibatz

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Like we have talks about VNs and one of the things is that:


In novels, the story happened. In visual novels, the story is happening.  The story is often told in present tense instead of past tense. The story's Point of View is told in First Person and a combination of Unreliable Narrator.  This make Visual Novels easier to transition to Hybrid Genres. Meanwhile,in Novel Writing, this is often frowned upon. You are a screenwriter rather than novel writer. Everything from music, art, direction, etc. serves to control the flow and rhythm of the story. This means the writer has control over the reader's flow versus a Novel where the reader has absolute control (e.g. you can start at the end if you want than in the beginning). Dialogue is the flow. It has to be at least 90% ~ 99% Narrative either in ADV/NVL/Other Variations like comic form. All gameplay elements must complement this narrative.



Interesting and informative. Thanks! I'm not sure I agree with a few of the points, but they are definitely food for thought.

Mass Effect doesn't hit this with those annoying side missions of finding all the bots. It has a lot of elements that doesn't lead to an end or entirely separate from its main narrative and removes that immersion. You have a choice whether you want to return to the main narrative anytime. Telltale games are more akin to Adventure Games.



Can't really form an opinion on Telltale games as I've yet to play one. They seem really cool, but on paper, their execution sounds similar to kinetic novels (with less words and more cinematic eye candy). Maybe they are the natural evolution of the Kinetic Novel format?

999 is a puzzle visual novel. The puzzles are an integral part of the narrative and affects the overall arching story. Hotel Dusk is a Visual Novel. Seinarukana's gameplay is related heavily to its theme. Little Buster's baseball minigame also serves an outcome in the story (even though it's entirely skippable and you can just RNG their stats every 'training' session). Utawarerumono and Tears to Tiara are also visual novels where their gameplay serves a narrative support to put emphasis on the epic story. 



I like it when VNs incorporate minigames that make sense to the narrative. Such games can really enhance the user experience; sort of like what was done with Undertale.


Anyway, I like this discussion, but maybe it deserves it's own thread? I would love to see more discussions like this! :)
 
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Celianna

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If Telltale's games didn't have any puzzle finding gameplay in it, I would definitely classify it was a visual novel (not a kinetic, kinetic are stories with no choices, and no different endings). Right now, they're a hybrid. I wish they went pure VN though, I hated the gameplay elements.
 

kaukusaki

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i tried researching *what* visual novels and kinetic novels are, only to get bombarded by conflicting terminology.  Are they just a modern term for IF/GIF games (graphical interactive fiction)? I know im showing my age here.... ?
 
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i tried researching *what* visual novels and kinetic novels are, only to get bombarded by conflicting terminology.  Are they just a modern term for IF/GIF games (graphical interactive fiction)? I know im showing my age here.... ?

Kinetic means a single story line, more linear game play where you read a story and experience it.  You can have alternate endings with the former, but the later gives you certain opportunities to change things in the single ending similar to dragon age origins.  A regular Visual Novel/Dating Sim will present multiple choices and give you the opportunity to have a path with alternative endings.  Here you experience the chance to change the story based on your intended partner/path.  
 

kaukusaki

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i think i get it.  A kinetic vn is basically a static gif game wheras a typical vn/date sim is a gif game with multiple endings . am i right? ?
 

NeoFantasy

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I'm honestly kind of excited for this and I don't know why. Probably because it's a bit more up my alley than Rpgmaker. I mean, I love mapping and all that, but writing is my specialty and being able to get straight to the point would be kind of fun. I don't have much experience with real visual novels either, so it might be fun to see what I can learn as well. (Plus it gives me a good excuse to practice drawing even more) Anyone have any idea what the price tag may be?
 
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tale

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Hello, could VN Maker include a feature where it can remember choices? The choice texts would display differently if it's already been through. Would be nice if this can be accessible.
 

Canini

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Kinetic means a single story line, more linear game play where you read a story and experience it.  You can have alternate endings with the former, but the later gives you certain opportunities to change things in the single ending similar to dragon age origins.  A regular Visual Novel/Dating Sim will present multiple choices and give you the opportunity to have a path with alternative endings.  Here you experience the chance to change the story based on your intended partner/path.  

I see. In that case my project idea detailed above may not be 100% suitable for VN maker. However, I do have another idea that may be suitable so I am definitely still going to get the program!  
 

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I heard VN has been delayed and will not be released this year. Such a shame...I was already gathering materials for a visual novel :(


Fingers crossed for a release in january...
 

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