VoltAge Kickstarter has opened!

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Hinorashito

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here's the thing with kickstarter:

you need to show people that you are willing to put your own time and money into your own project before someone else is

im not saying you didn't put time into it, but the way people measure how much time and effort you put in is through tangible things such as graphics and music. you don't have this.

anyone can write a story, but not many people can balance a budget and/or make custom materials. you need to prove to everyone you're worthy of their money and a cut above the rest.
Thank you kilim that is all i was trying to say. We can only take this as seriously as you do that is all i was trying to get across and kliim said it perfectly.
 

Golden Fish Entertainment

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Hey this is Taylor, one of the two mapmakers for GFE. I wanna know, how exactly are we supposed to "make the game look good"? Everyone keeps saying that the graphics or whatever are uninspiring, but honestly how much can you do with a 16 bit game? We've said repeatedly that the ONLY thing we are raising money for is a graphic artist to make monsters for us, so PRESUMABLY when people talk about the game's appearance they mean the tiles, etc...
So honestly, how do we make the game "look better"?.

This is not some Playstation 1 remake for a tablet or laptop; it's a top down, 16 bit game. Examples of 16 bit RPGs are linked below:

http://www.gamefabrique.com/storage/screenshots/snes/illusion-of-gaia-05.png

http://i1-games.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/1-3959_3.png

http://cdn1.spong.com/screen-shot/f/i/finalfanta46771/_-Final-Fantasy-VI-SNES-_.gif

http://obsoletegamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Final-Fantasy-2-snes-Gameplay-Screenshot-3.jpg

http://i2.cdnds.net/13/17/618x390/gaming-final-fantasy-iv-screenshot-4.jpg

Perhaps what we are REALLY seeing is that people on the forums don't think the RPG Maker Engine is "good enough" for a commercial project? We certainly do.

So what is the problem here? I know it sounds as though I am berating you, but it's like people are more hung up on how bad the graphics are than they should be...have the people on this forum never seen an RPG Maker VX Ace game? Or are they telling us that we are wasting our time and money, and should just make our own engine and push back the game another year or two?

As a point of reference, here are the "sample games" from the RPG Maker website:
http://www.rpgmakerweb.com/download/additional
 
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Shaz

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Honestly Taylor, a lot of people here DON'T think RPG Maker is good enough to make a commercial game, and they'll chew your ear off about it if you give them a chance :) I disagree, as do others, which is WHY we have an area specifically for commercial games. We hope many more will take the opportunity to make commercial games, but realizing in the process that they have to be GOOD, not just something thrown together as quickly as possible (in no way implying that's what you guys have done, but it's something we see a lot, and increases the distaste for commercial RM games)
 

MiracleMare

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I think that a lot of RPG Maker users are just tired of seeing the RTP tile sets and same colored menus/texts. I agree when you say that you think RPG Maker can make commercial quality games, I just think if you want to sell to the RPG Maker community itself (as well as those familiar with the RTP) that you might need to change things from default to something fresh.

Like, if I had found your game on Kickstarter prior to owning RPG Maker, I probably would have been like "Holy cow, this looks so awesome etc..", but since I'm so familiar with the tiles/graphics provided with RPG Maker, it makes me less interested in the game.... even if the story/mechanics look great (which they do by the way). People who haven't seen RPG Maker games might be more prone to getting excited over it.

Congratulations on launching your campaign :)  
 

Reynard Frost

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Hey this is Taylor, one of the two mapmakers for GFE. I wanna know, how exactly are we supposed to "make the game look good"? Everyone keeps saying that the graphics or whatever are uninspiring, but honestly how much can you do with a 16 bit game? We've said repeatedly that the ONLY thing we are raising money for is a graphic artist to make monsters for us, so PRESUMABLY when people talk about the game's appearance they mean the tiles, etc...

So honestly, how do we make the game "look better"?.

This is not some Playstation 1 remake for a tablet or laptop; it's a top down, 16 bit game. Examples of 16 bit RPGs are linked below:

http://www.gamefabrique.com/storage/screenshots/snes/illusion-of-gaia-05.png

http://i1-games.softpedia-static.com/screenshots/1-3959_3.png

http://cdn1.spong.com/screen-shot/f/i/finalfanta46771/_-Final-Fantasy-VI-SNES-_.gif

http://obsoletegamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Final-Fantasy-2-snes-Gameplay-Screenshot-3.jpg

http://i2.cdnds.net/13/17/618x390/gaming-final-fantasy-iv-screenshot-4.jpg

Perhaps what we are REALLY seeing is that people on the forums don't think the RPG Maker Engine is "good enough" for a commercial project? We certainly do.

So what is the problem here? I know it sounds as though I am berating you, but it's like people are more hung up on how bad the graphics are than they should be...have the people on this forum never seen an RPG Maker VX Ace game? Or are they telling us that we are wasting our time and money, and should just make our own engine and push back the game another year or two?

As a point of reference, here are the "sample games" from the RPG Maker website:

http://www.rpgmakerweb.com/download/additional
Your game is 32 bit, not 16 bit. At least the RTP itself is 32bit. The fact that you can't tell the difference speaks volumes.

The simple truth of the matter is that you're a bunch of people nobody has heard of, you have no reputation, and you have nothing to show for it. If you made a playable demo that showed your gameplay was fun and used RTP as placeholder, it would shut up a lot of naysayers. You're just jumping the gun quite a bit early asking for funding. Make a game, then make it look pretty.
 
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Nathanial

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Like, if I had found your game on Kickstarter prior to owning RPG Maker, I probably would have been like "Holy cow, this looks so awesome etc..", but since I'm so familiar with the tiles/graphics provided with RPG Maker, it makes me less interested in the game.... even if the story/mechanics look great (which they do by the way). People who haven't seen RPG Maker games might be more prone to getting excited over it.

Congratulations on launching your campaign :)
It's not even selling TO the RPG Maker community.. people outside of the RPG Maker community are sick of seeing the RTP as well. I would do more than just battlers, to be honest. The RTP is good for people to learn to use the maker.. or just mess around.. or are really *that* strapped for money.. But I strongly encourage custom everything when it comes to graphics when possible.. especially if you're doing something commercial. If you're asking for funding, I'd go that much further.  

Taylor: Who are the artists on your website page? Are they who you plan on paying with Kickstarter money? Seemed a little confusing from just casual browsing that there's two listed artists on your page, but not a hint of custom content on your Kickstarter page. I would suggest getting some custom concept art on the page, perhaps? Show a hint of what people might be paying for besides just a stock RTP game?

Can you strike a deal with an artist to at least do some concept work for on the cheap to help you get more backers? 

I'm also seeing two programmers listed on your team page, but I'm seeing just evented stuff in your videos/screenshots. Show off what the programmers are working on?

I would love to see a demo, or a few minutes of actual gameplay footage that shows off what's unique about your game.. which I think would help when it comes to getting backers. 

That's the big thing when asking for money.. what's unique about your game that isn't like the 50 other RPG Maker Kickstarter projects unfunded right now? Or the dozen Steam Greenlight projects? That's what you want to really emphasize when asking for funds. 

And don't be offended if people are being skeptical, please. There's a lot of games I personally call "RTP Spam". It's what you find on Kickstarter and Steam Greenlight quite a bit.. They're usually uninspired, poorly designed, rushed out games with the intention to do nothing but make a quick buck. You also won't find a hint of effort or actual customization (and using someone elses free script you found on the forum barely passes) from the author. Those games tend to, for a lot of the community, harm RPG Maker's image. And it's easy for people to associate a lot of KS projects and Greenlight projects that pop up as being such when they fit certain criteria.

I'm by no means calling your game "RTP Spam". I'm just letting you know where a lot of the negativity is probably spawning from. I would personally work your social networks and find someone that can do some concept work on the cheap.. or even free and show off some concepts of creatures, etc.. Throw those on the KS page. Show off why you think your game is worth 2.5K. Prove folks wrong.

Just my thoughts.
 
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Hinorashito

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Um has anybody else played 16 bit ff4 it was a great game i loved it. Vx ace graphics look better than 16 bit ff4 and can make the same type of game with vamped graphics. However it was original i cant play any 16 bit game and get the music and characters ff4 has. And I have played peoples demo games and they have gorgeous beautiful parallax maps that are great eye candy. They did that with no funding. We would just like to see one example for what we would be funding. The reason people are at you if because you are asking for FUNDS from people to create things. We would like a mock up or a sketch of just ONE example of what we are funding that you cannot create yourself. If you are telling me you cannot even pay to have ONE battler created to show us an example of how they would look why should we invest our money in it?

If this project was not a kickstarter people would be less critical of you but what we are trying to say is most kick starters have a mock up or example of what there vision is. You say you cant show us the full vision because you need our funds to help create it. In other words you asking people to invest in something they cannot see is absurd. If square enix said they wanted money to do a ff7 remake and made a kick starter they would have at least one hd character done from there own money to show us an EXAMPLE of how it looks.

If i say i need money to help fund a fighting game I am making I would have AT LEAST one fighter done to show you an example of how they look and there movesets. If somebody asked you to help fund a charity and said well you will just have to wait to see what type of charity it is after funding would you fund it?

I am not being mean just trying to put things in perspective
 

Golden Fish Entertainment

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Your game is 32 bit, not 16 bit. At least the RTP itself is 32bit. The fact that you can't tell the difference speaks volumes.

The simple truth of the matter is that you're a bunch of people nobody has heard of, you have no reputation, and you have nothing to show for it. If you made a playable demo that showed your gameplay was fun and used RTP as placeholder, it would shut up a lot of naysayers. You're just jumping the gun quite a bit early asking for funding. Make a game, then make it look pretty.
I think what Taylor was trying to say is, the game is meant to be LIKE a 16 bit game, and people are acting like we are claiming to be making something like this:

http://cdn.dualshockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/FFXIV_ARR_Stress-3.jpg

When in actuality it looks like this:



To Hinorashito: you may as well give up trying to offer advice at this point; you pretty much lost any credibility with us when you started the whole "VoltAge is trash" line of thought. At this point you are just wasting time.

Nathaniel B. we are trying to show people things as they are asking for them, but quite honestly there are more things going on with our group than just VoltAge. The artists you see on our page are working on a webcomic and BASIC character concepts, but nothing that we think would help us get people excited about our ideas at this point. We have a ten minute video on our KS page, but the limitations of most screen capture engines prevents us from making 30 minute demo videos where you go through a town, buy stuff, do a quest, jump in an airship, fly somewhere else, and do another quest, etc.
 

Hinorashito

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Dont get mad at me when various other people dressed up what they said but virtually said the same thing as me lol. Telling me to be quiet wont change the facts and lets be honest NOBODY expected your graphics to look as good as the link you posted. Ill be quiet now as you wish but between you and me that will not change the truth.

Oh and ps attacking people for telling you the truth about the work will not yield you any donations tee hee enjoy the rest of your day now.
 
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Shaz

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And you would have donated anyway? I actually asked you the other day not to post in this thread again.
 
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Hinorashito

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And you would have donated anyway? I actually asked you the other day not to post in this thread again.
Yes i would have i have donated to various different kick starters lol im tired of people judging me as this giant jerk I guess i will stop speaking my mind so much. Also shaz when people directly respond to things i have said after you told them not to as well that seems to give the impression all bets are off.
 

Arkecia

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But your game looks nothing like either of the two images you posted. How can you say 16bit is horrible looking or that you can't do much with it? (btw the RTP and graphics like them are indeed 32 bit) Either way there is no need to bash 2D.

There's all kinds of things you can do with graphics or else every game would look exactly the same as the last. As for advice, if your project doesn't get funded I'd pursue a chunk of the game before asking for funding again, so you have something the players themselves can play.  Even with place holders as long as you make it clear what's being replaced someone who had fun with your game is a lot more likely to back the project.

Instead there's not too much to work with except for words; you yourself don't sound impressed with the graphics you use, so it's a hard sell on that front anyway.
 

Shaz

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You already made it clear that you would NOT support THIS kickstarter, so what you may or may not have done with others is irrelevant.


And all bets are not off. When a mod tells you to stay out of a thread, you stay out of a thread. He only responded to what you said BECAUSE you came back again after being told not to. So, again, do not post in this thread anymore.
 

Hinorashito

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I think arkecia just said what makes the most sense. Since we all have the same rtp resources if we all flood the market with games what makes yours different?

Well then if "CERTAIN" people would stop pming me and responding to me i would have never said anything back. Why dont you call them out for that shaz dont be so one sided I said in its current state i would not support it i never said i would not support it at all. I like you shaz i think you are a decent person but please do not place words in my mouth.
 
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Shaz

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If people PM you and you don't like it, report them.
 

Andar

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I haven't said much on the topic until now, because any crowdfunding project basically gets it's answer by getting founded or not - if you can convince enough people to fund the project, then you were correct - if not, then you should think again about what you can do and what not.


However:

Nathaniel B. we are trying to show people things as they are asking for them, but quite honestly there are more things going on with our group than just VoltAge. The artists you see on our page are working on a webcomic and BASIC character concepts, but nothing that we think would help us get people excited about our ideas at this point. We have a ten minute video on our KS page, but the limitations of most screen capture engines prevents us from making 30 minute demo videos where you go through a town, buy stuff, do a quest, jump in an airship, fly somewhere else, and do another quest, etc.
If you're new and don't have a base for your company yet (and I suppose you don't have, because otherwise you either would have something ready to sell or not needing the kickstarter), then it's very important to focus on one project. The biggest problems in a project usually appear when it's nearing completion, and when the company is short on remaining funds and needs to get the program sold to continue existing.


If you waste your resources at the beginning by starting several projects at once, then your chances of making it through the final development stages are reduced.


You can only work on several projects at the same time, if you either


1) are a big company that can employ and pay more people full time than can work on a project (which you're obviously not)


2) if the other projects are already proven to get money in (like a sequel to a previously sold game with good sales)


3) if you're doing this as a hobby and don't need income to live on (and in that case, you'll have to expect delays and stops on the hobby project while getting money for food on your table from your real job).


And having several unfinished projects in the works usually hurts the chances of a successfull crowdfunding as well, because a lot of people check you before funding you, and several unfinished works without a single finished game does not speak well for your chances of getting something out even if you're successfully funded - and if you continue working on the other project after being funded, how long to your funders have to wait until they get their game?
 

Napoleon

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Good luck with the project!

Honestly Taylor, a lot of people here DON'T think RPG Maker is good enough to make a commercial game, and they'll chew your ear off about it if you give them a chance :) I disagree, as do others, which is WHY we have an area specifically for commercial games. We hope many more will take the opportunity to make commercial games, but realizing in the process that they have to be GOOD, not just something thrown together as quickly as possible (in no way implying that's what you guys have done, but it's something we see a lot, and increases the distaste for commercial RM games)
I have seen some successful RPG Maker Games. I never bought any myself but some of the free RM games have some really really epic gameplay & story. It sure is possible if you just invest some time & money.

But yeah some games use hacked resources, rips, plain maps, etc. They get massively downvoted/banned in the steam greenlight for example and any good RM games that follow have a harder time getting greenlit imo. Also the 640 resolution limit has to be compensated with above average gameplay imo.
 

amerk

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We have a ten minute video on our KS page, but the limitations of most screen capture engines prevents us from making 30 minute demo videos where you go through a town, buy stuff, do a quest, jump in an airship, fly somewhere else, and do another quest, etc.
Usually when people ask to see a demo, they're asking for a demo they can actually play and test for themselves versus a video to watch. In such cases, the player / funder gets to test what they will be buying or funding, and can make an educated guess as to what the rest of the project will look like, and whether or not it's worth investing in.
 
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