VX vs VX-Ace - What do you like about them?

[Venima]

So, I thought I'd start a discussion on what functions/features we like about both of these RPG Maker versions. Now I know not all of you have used both, and some who have used both may not realise just how different they are! You're all welcome to join in with whatever input you have.

This has probably been discussed before, but I think it's an interesting topic, and users' opinions are likely to change over the years, so without further adieu..

My own opinion:

Overall I think I prefer VX over VX Ace (this'll probably make the devs sad but hey). I will start with VX-Ace's pros..

VX-Ace pros:

Better system for organising tilesets. Ace also allows for unlimited styles of maps by giving different tileset options per map. VX on the other hand requires third-party control over tilesets if you want more than 5, which gets messy.

Regions have more flexibility in terms of encounters, and are more commonly used in interaction with scripts. VX on the other hand has rectangle-based areas for encounters, which offer little control (albeit I was able to make a quick script to control them better).

Ace's code I believe is better organised and makes modding a bit easier (though I can't be sure, it certainly is the more popular).

VX pros (kind of):

While the class/skill/item/weapon/state editors in Ace are more advanced and allow unparalleled control and flexibility compared to VX, they are also slightly cryptic, time-consuming and confusing to use, which for me is a turn-off. I don't want to be spending several minutes trying to figure out and test each individual item or skill I make (and this is coming from a programmer). I fully understand the potential that Ace offers, and I think it's good that it's there, but perhaps there's just too much interface to look at at once? I look at the Damage box of the Skill editor, and I can't work out what it's doing, and why does attacking have a "Normal attack" state, why is that necessary?

And lets not get started with the Features box, and that Param tab... everything has 3 letter acronyms, most of which mean absolutely nothing, unless you look them up.

Now lets look at the System and Terms tabs. Weapon and Armour types. This is to replace VX's ultra-specific class weapon/armor requirements. On the face of it, this seems like a good idea, but in practice, I'm not so sure. Being able to see a class beside every weapon/armor object he can wield helps visualise how that class will play at different stages in the game, and whether or not they're underpowered or overpowered. VX-Ace's system, while saving time, has separated the class from the weapons and armour they can equip, and has summarised them into these categories. Another minor problem is if you want a weapon to be usable by a single character. You add a new armour type for it, but then the naming convention gets a little messy. You've got small shield, large shield, and then 'Richard's Armours', which doesn't fit as well. I'll admit it's only a problem for obsessive people like myself . Anyway, in my mind, Ace should have combined the old system with the new one. Have categories for 'the general rule' for what weapons and armours a character can use, and then allow you to add exceptions.

In general, I think the major reason for why I prefer VX is this: in an RPG, you generally want a set rulebase for however everything 'ordinary' works. Take dungeons and dragons, everything is decided by basic die rolls, and the way in which this is calculated never changes. VX provides this with a simple interface and only very basic control over how attacks work. Anything special requires scripts or common events, or some clever playing around to make work. However, what Ace seems to provide, is an interface that enables you to make each item work completely differently. This seems great, but for me it just feels chaotic and messy.

Anyway, that's my opinion, I'd like to hear yours! Maybe I can learn something from it

 

[optimum45]

My first project was done on VX, using the old Tankentai Battle System.  I picked it up and started rolling in it within a week, and had the project done before the trial ended.  It was easier to "Pick Up and Go" using VX than Ace.

VX Ace does have a "standard" calculation for damage, which is 0 + a.atk * 4 - b.def * 2.  Every skill in the RTP is balanced to that formula, more or less.  I really, really like the ability to adjust damage calculations easily.  If you want an attack that "ignores defense", just remove the defense part of the calculation.  On a more advanced level, I like being able to control *exactly* what each attack does, with no question about it.  I never had that power with VX.  Learning to understand the "terms" isn't terribly hard either if you play RPG's at all.

I had the same beef with "gearsets" as you have, and I worked around it with a simple "organizational" trick.  It ticks my OCD some to have 5 different armor types called "Heavy Armor", but the player won't know the difference, and it keeps character bound items apart.

Without going into scripting, I have to say that I prefer VX Ace.  I feel that it gives me greater creative control, and I can produce a superior product with Ace than I could with VX.  But *BOTH* products are excellent and easy to use.  

 

[Venima]

VX Ace does have a "standard" calculation for damage, which is 0 + a.atk * 4 - b.def * 2.  Every skill in the RTP is balanced to that formula, more or less.  I really, really like the ability to adjust damage calculations easily.  If you want an attack that "ignores defense", just remove the defense part of the calculation.  On a more advanced level, I like being able to control *exactly* what each attack does, with no question about it.  I never had that power with VX.  Learning to understand the "terms" isn't terribly hard either if you play RPG's at all.

See I controlled VX's damage system by tampering with it's script. From then on I didn't need to worry about damage calculations. I played old RPGs like Baldur's Gate, not the ones you get on the gameboy, and they are what I base my combat design around, which VX Ace doesn't really help with. The Ex-Parameters are the ones which really confused me.

I feel that it (Ace) gives me greater creative control, and I can produce a superior product with Ace than I could with VX. 

I completely agree that you can produce a better product with Ace, one of the reasons why I don't like the fact that I prefer VX.. if that makes sense

 

[Matseb2611]

I personally found all the options provided by Ace to be easy to get into. The stat acronyms will stick with you pretty quickly once you use the engine for a bit. The damage formula might look complex, but it's basic maths most of the time. 5 x the attack will do more damage than 3 x the attack for example. I don't have that much experience with VX, but given what you've said, I am glad I use Ace, because the flexibility it offers is fantastic. I don't think I can go back to the earlier engines now (I have XP as well, and although I have great memories associated with it, I have to say that Ace is superior).

I am guessing perhaps the simplicity of VX will appeal to beginners of RM more, although I think the fact Ace offers more customization shouldn't be offputting to beginners at all, since it's there as a bonus rather than a requisite. I think the limitations of the VX (like tilesets, etc) will eventually force the users to start looking for scripts and alternate means of accomplishing what they want, which in turns ends up being more work, so I think having more of these functions built-in in Ace is a massive plus.

 

[Wavelength]

I really like the mid-level non-scripting customization offered by Ace and I hope the series goes further in that direction.

 

[Venima]

The damage formula might look complex, but it's basic maths most of the time. 

The problem is you can't properly control it without delving into the scripts anyway, which Ace makes more difficult. I want to delve into combat mechanics with an artistic perspective, which requires absolute control over it. What if I want a weapon to have exactly 70% hit rate? How do you achieve this in Ace? And how to control the critical chance? How can you tell that with character x given this new weapon I just created, will kill enemy y in on average 5 hits? This is the kind of control I need.

If you want to avoid having to script things, I think everything should be customisable, I think you should be able to add and remove stats, weapons should have the functionality of skills (so that they're not reliant on an 'Attack' skill to handle their calculations), so that you can have absolute control.

I really like the mid-level non-scripting customization offered by Ace and I hope the series goes further in that direction.

I do too, don't get me wrong, I think Ace is a step in the right direction, mostly. It's just, it feels messy as it is.

 

[Fernyfer775]

I like Ace the way it is, but what would make it perfect for me is if they re-implemented the layers for mapping so that I don't have to rely on parallax mapping to do the same thing I used to be able to do in XP.

 

[Lustermx]

VX ace, in my opinion is superior in every way and if you're new to RPG making, you MUST get ace, not vx, purely for the reason that if you're doing a search to find help in VX, you'll always be directed to an ace thread and get really confused.

 

[Venima]

VX ace, in my opinion is superior in every way and if you're new to RPG making, you MUST get ace, not vx, purely for the reason that if you're doing a search to find help in VX, you'll always be directed to an ace thread and get really confused.

googling "rpg maker vx -ace" would be the solution to that one.. '-ace' means don't include results with the word ace in them. Welcome to the power of the search engine

But I would agree with you Ace is superior, and if you able to use it to achieve what you want, then all the better.

 

[Venima]

Another thing I prefer VX over Ace for, is enemy elements. In ace it takes 4-5 clicks and mouse moves to add a single 'element rate' to the list, and it's displayed in a way that gives you very little scope of how that enemy will pan out in all different circumstances.

VX on the other hand has a list of boxes for every element in the game which you just click a couple times to change the value. It's so much quicker.

What Ace should have, is a list with the items being editable as part of the list, not just in a popup window. So for example the item: Element Rate  [Earth] * 50%. 'Element Rate' should be a drop list, '[Earth]' should be a drop list and '50%' should be an input box, all in the list. 

I'd like to ask, has this been suggested already for the next version of RPG Maker? I think it's a really pertinent point to request one-click interfaces.

 

[Lustermx]

googling "rpg maker vx -ace" would be the solution to that one.. '-ace' means don't include results with the word ace in them. Welcome to the power of the search engine

But I would agree with you Ace is superior, and if you able to use it to achieve what you want, then all the better.

That's true, but with the main VX based forums closed down (rpgrevolution and rpgmakervx.net), there's still hardly any support and resources still standing relative to what there used to be.

 

[Venima]

That's true, but with the main VX based forums closed down (rpgrevolution and rpgmakervx.net), there's still hardly any support and resources still standing relative to what there used to be.

That I have noticed. But as far as the tool goes, I prefer VX purely because it's simpler. I don't know, maybe I'll have to give Ace another go. Do you have any advice for figuring out.. a) being able to specify an attack deals exactly say 3-5 damage against a particular enemy, and how to convert luck to an exact percentage for state changes?

 

[Myst88]

I prefer Ace. I think the main reason is the fact you can unlimited tilesets. (Though having layer mapping again would be nice) And I find it more customisable then VX. I like how theres more parameters such as MDEF, also the character generator. Not so much the faces that go with it but the fact that anyone can just make their own sprites that easily is pretty cool.

But a few things I prefered in VX were the fact that you could set parameters to each character rather then class. And the way you could set equipment to each class.

Also I liked the way elements were set better, I was quite dissapointed in ACE that the only way to have an enemy absorb certain elements was via scripts. Where in VX just set it to F and your done.

 

[Matseb2611]

What Ace should have, is a list with the items being editable as part of the list, not just in a popup window. So for example the item: Element Rate  [Earth] * 50%. 'Element Rate' should be a drop list, '[Earth]' should be a drop list and '50%' should be an input box, all in the list. 
I'd like to ask, has this been suggested already for the next version of RPG Maker? I think it's a really pertinent point to request one-click interfaces.

I think having too many element boxes in the features will just end up looking very cluttered. I know XP has that, and although it's nice enough, I prefer the way Ace has it, because it's cleaner and easier to work with. What if your game has a lot of elements on top of the standard few? Imagine the number of boxes on the page.

If anything, I think Ace could use even more customization. For example, there is no option to have stats change the encounter rate and the gold drop rate by a %ge. You only have features such as 'Encounter Half' and 'Encounter None'. I would personally love if instead of that we could have 'Encounter Rate 75%' or something, or 'Gold Drop Rate +33%'.

 

[Venima]

I think having too many element boxes in the features will just end up looking very cluttered. I know XP has that, and although it's nice enough, I prefer the way Ace has it, because it's cleaner and easier to work with. What if your game has a lot of elements on top of the standard few? Imagine the number of boxes on the page.

It won't look cluttered I promise you. I practised the very same method I preached, treating a list item as a bunch of options itself. Because it's all perfectly aligned it looks really good. Anyway who cares about clean when it grants you 5x efficiency, per enemy. You could make it subtle enough that you don't see any boxes until you hover the mouse over the item, then you get both: clean and functional.