Waht is Right?

[Mieze]

http://www.rpgmakervx.net/index.php?showtopic=47180

Hi guys, 

 

I do not know if you can answer the many others think so no again. 

which is now correct you can use tilesets without problems in Commercial Games. 

and who now need the credits. 

Apparently not include the tilesets hanzo? 

what's wrong now? can you tell me the time? 

Please all I need to know list. want to get on no n case any trouble. 

 

Thank you

 

[Sharm]

Such a list would be impossible.  There are a huge number of available assets for RPG Maker, not all assets can be found here and they're constantly changing.  The packs from the store and the stuff from Members+ can all be used commercially, everything else you'll have to look up yourself.  As for who to credit, you could always do what Grandma Deb does and rename everything you save with the credit information included.  I think she also sorts them into folders depending on the licensing.

 

[Mieze]

Thanks, I was just afraid that I get worse if I just so use in Commercial Games. 

Cretids for me are of course always come clean. 

I just wanted to know if I can use this tilesets by Hanzo Kimura Commercial.

 

(I mean the stuff from the link I inserted first)

 

[bgillisp]

Depends on the tileset. The way I do it is I only use tilesets that I bought as DLC, as all of them can be used commercially with credit given. However, if you wish to use more than that, I would recommend keeping a spreadsheet of all the tilesets you used, and who to credit for it.

Also, if in doubt, just assume it cannot be used commercially. That's the policy I've been sticking to, and it has worked for me. Sure, I've missed a few tilesets/etc this way, but I've just learned to work with the sets I know I can legally use.

Edit: Ninja'd by your post above mine. For that set, you would have to ask the author, unless it is stated in the post. If not stated, best to assume it cannot be used commercially.

 

[Mieze]

his answer was ... many people already bought a license to use it commercially.

he replied. namely've already asked him, but it is now called, yes or no? to me it says there have been many people a license, but if I can wure not really answered.

 

[Lunarea]

Considering Hanzo has used resources from other artists, he can't actually sell the commercial license without potentially breaking someone else's terms of service.

And because he has many sources in his set, assume that you can't use them commercially.

 

[Mieze]

thanks. ^^

 

[BCj]

That's sorta confusing, because here it stated we could use them?


http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.rpgmakerweb.com%2Findex.php%3F%2Ftopic%2F8723-is-the-coad-tiles-usable-for-commercial-projects%2F&ei=KIAZVPinJo_G7AaeloGoDw&usg=AFQjCNEyAMHwcQ0l3-9gA_8XcPGPec50ug&sig2=24mzORycuMRzFymJ3AFUQg&bvm=bv.75558745,d.ZGU

 

[Andar]

That's sorta confusing, because here it stated we could use them?


http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.rpgmakerweb.com%2Findex.php%3F%2Ftopic%2F8723-is-the-coad-tiles-usable-for-commercial-projects%2F&ei=KIAZVPinJo_G7AaeloGoDw&usg=AFQjCNEyAMHwcQ0l3-9gA_8XcPGPec50ug&sig2=24mzORycuMRzFymJ3AFUQg&bvm=bv.75558745,d.ZGU

Nothing in the linked topic gives a free pass to use those resources commercially (or even non-commercially).
Quite the contrary, it is stated that the tiles of the linked topic are a mix from several sources and do not all have the same terms-of-service.


After that, the discussion goes on to specific parts of the linked set and their TOS, but that part is not for every part of those tilesets...

 

[Scinaya]

As far as I know Hanzo's work also includes rips from commercial games. Which would make selling it, and using it for commercial purposes simply illegal. o-o

 

[BCj]

Nothing in the linked topic gives a free pass to use those resources commercially (or even non-commercially).


Quite the contrary, it is stated that the tiles of the linked topic are a mix from several sources and do not all have the same terms-of-service.


After that, the discussion goes on to specific parts of the linked set and their TOS, but that part is not for every part of those tilesets...

Well the way I read it the COAD tiles were from IGMaker (?) and it was legit to use them in RPGMaker as long as one owned IGMaker+RPGMaker.


Seeing as Hanzo claimed his work was based on COAD and BenBen it should be okay? Or what exactly did he rip from commercial games?

 

[Lunarea]

See, problem is that the tiles Hanzo used aren't just from COAD and BenBen (note that there's controversy around BenBen too for using rips from games). There's a rather large variety of sources he borrowed from, and you'd really have to clear every single artist to get the proper permissions.

As for rips, I can recognize at least one flower that comes from Secret of Mana game. There's probably more, but I don't have time to hunt down all the references. I can tell you with a certainty that the flower is from Secret of Mana because I was just looking it up as a reference for a tileset I'm working on, and it's an identical in terms of pixels (though it's been recolored).

If you are going commercial, you do not want any copyright issues or controversy to crop up. It can irreversibly damage your reputation as a developer, not to mention cost you in court fees.

 

[BCj]

Hmm alright. That's a shame because I really liked some of his tiles (the town walls, the purple roofs and the water most notably)

 

[amerk]

A bit off topic, but maybe Hanzo's tileset could be inspiration for the next store pack. Not only would it hopefully put to rest the controversy and the questions surrounding proper use, but it would offer consistency as well. It could even be tailored to fit the RTP, DS, or a new style all together.

As for issues around Hanzo, agreeing with the mods. It's one thing if he edited his work based on existing (and legal) RTP's, but even then you'd have to purchase the editor where the RTP originated from in order to use his edited work. But things get cloudy very quickly (if not all together illegal) when edits come from multiple sources. Edits of rips pretty much cements this as a definite "no" for commercial use unless you can get ahold of him and guarantee you're using only the non-ripped resources. Even then, if he's uses work from other artists who are generally okay with edits but have their own terms, you need to know what each term is, since some don't allow edits to be made or shared, or will still require to be compensated even though you're using edited material.

 

[BCj]

That'd actually be a very nice idea Amerk.

 

[nelze]

I wanted to ask if there were updates or clarifications for this. We just recently planned to purchase hanzo's license prior to seeing this thread, so we sent him an email and he said

"None of them is Ripped from a commercial game, Some of them especially the trees were made from a spriter named ben who game me permission to do what i want with it. the others are from RPG Maker VX and XP RTP and is heavily edited and modified to fit the other tilesets made. It is safe to use as long as you're using it in RPG Maker Products."

He also told us "Just include the list of people (COAD, Benben, Mack, akuzino-ihcikie, Venetia, Inq, Hypersnake22) in the credits for Graphics. There's no issue with them. and yes for about 4-6 clients also purchased the same license. haven't heard any problems with them. I don't know what flower you are talking about specifically [when I asked him about the Secret of Mana flower mentioned here]."

Just wanted to know what's the real deal. Thanks a lot!

 

[Lunarea]

The problem is that there has been some controversy regarding Benben's resources - there's been some suggestion and evidence that some of it might have been ripped. It doesn't matter that Hanzo himself didn't personally rip anything, if one of his other sources did, your project could be the one getting shut down.

Secondly, although he may have cleared re-distribution of edited material from all of those sources, that's not the same as him having permission to actually sell said tiles. Is he able to provide you with direct contact with all of the people he credits? Does he have a written and legally-binding document that specifically allows selling a license? Can he produce this document and get us personally in touch with each artist so we can clear it up and know for sure that not only is commercial use allowed, but that Hanzo is allowed to profit from edited material? His materials also contain RTP from RMXP or Ace. He is not legally allowed to sell them, as per the EULA. He would need a special permission from Enterbrain, which - to my knowledge - was only something they granted to Celianna and I for our Steampunk tiles.

He could say that he was charging for the part of the tiles that are his original work, but in that case he would need to remove all material from the RTP - including pieces that only used it as a base. And the fact that he hasn't done this and admits to having sold licenses to several people already does not look good.

I would be happy to discuss this with him at length directly, should he need it.

But the official stance is going to be that no, the resources are not cleared for commercial use and you are putting your project at risk by using the material in question.

 

[GrandmaDeb]

Well, maybe one more voice isn't helpful, but this is my take:

Some folks are just plain better organized than others. Artists and dewey-eyed dreamers building castles in the sky (or in an RPG Maker game)may be very organized and careful, or they may not be.

And keeping track of hundreds and hundreds of sprites and tiles and battlers and resource packs and artists - well it gets to be overwhelming. Frankly, some people stink at it. They can't even keep their own posts straight. You know what? We all contribute, and we all screw up sometimes.

Now Hanzo was a very widely admired map maker who changed his mind so much about posting his materials that you wanted to throttle him after awhile, and he mixed materials from VX and XP, and various artists, and really wasn't able later to fully credit all of the parts of his tilesets.

If you check ALL his posts (a very confusing effort!) Hanzo says they are not for commercial use.
And that is the best choice all around. Compilations are dangerous business if you want to respect copyrights and artists' terms. (plus Lunarea's helpful, more legal discussion, above.)

I am sorry, KajoCat, that the terms are hard to read. I don't like to edit posts if I don't have to. But perhaps I will add text from other posts Hanzo has made to clarify his non-commercial tileset terms.

 

[Scinaya]

Thanks Lunarea, for opening up the copyright issue more widely there. Remembered a lot of issues and couldn't imagine the commercial use, because of the complex set from several people and discussion about originality.

In additon, even with only lended pieces from both VX and XP and yet with the EB!'s permission to sell the set, it would require the user to own both engines (RPG Makers XP and VX) to use the set legally.