Warning to all artists: users that don´t pay for art - how to avoid

[wolfnoom]

Warning to all artists: How to avoid users that don´t pay for art.


This can happen if you don´t have careful, this time I was stupid and made a mistake, learn from me.


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User Ocedic <snip> don´t pay for art.


http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/user/2792-ocedic/


Hi im new here but I want to give a warn to all those who are searching for an art job as a freelance in this web or in any other,


I came here a few weeks ago to search for an art job and i though I found one. Im a 2d artist.


here is the offer:


http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/topic/15901-seeking-artist-busts-facesets/#entry156773 


Ocedic started saying he had a bad experience with the last artist he worked with, the whole thing


ended up with ocedic having problems with 2 concecutive artists, this time me.


The job was 6 busts, I did two sketches, he paid, I sent him the other 2, he said he like it and that there were difference


in zooms of the sketches but he like them and never asked for changes, 


he disapeared a weak and then after a last email I sent him he retunerd to tell he no longer had interest in going on with


the project, I asked him if he was going to pay for the sketches,


 he told me sketches are free and he dont need to pay for them.


Let me repeat: for ocedic Sketches ARE FREE so he can put all artists making sketches for him, artists dont need to eat after all.


failure here was mine, I should had ask some money before but


I though it was ok becase he just had a bad experience with artists before... epic failure.


Now please considere the following having in count I/we artists DO have to eat and life is not cheap. In fact is very hard


when you are starting wich is my case.


sketches take me 4 hours to finish because of design they are never ever easy. 2 sketches = 8 hours = minimum 60 dollars in a


normal work here in Spain, I was just asking 30 in the beggining that was the deal, i received 0 because Ocedic 


thinks sketches are free and if he dont like then he dont need to pay the artist (still sounds unreal for me),


thats never the case, when you hire an artist you are making him work, you have his portfolio to see his level, its an investiment.


Ah but he said he liked the sketches, he just lost interest in going on because he was very busy with his life.


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RESUMING: I just want to try to warn artists any way i can. This things happen and we artists must be prepared


ALWAYS ASK FOR HALF OF THE MONEY BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING, this way you are making sure the person have interest in 


seeing the work finsihed.


And warn that there are people like Ocedic <snip> out there, http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/user/2792-ocedic/


if you are an artist reading this, please be carful, dont be stupid like me, work safe. 


this was one of the unpaid sketches, it is alot of work, beleive me and its horrible to dont get paid, it´s frustrating as hell.

 

[Ocedic]

Okay, allow me to retort to this slander.


Before we began, I clearly stated the stipulations in which I would pay for half of a commission of one bust, then pay the other half upon completion of a bust. This is pretty standard across the forum, as it protects both users. He sent me two sketches, and I sent him half of each bust as per our agreement. He then refused to finish those sketches into busts, saying I needed to send him the rest of the characters to make sketches of them. First, this was not something we initially agreed upon.


He then drew the other sketches and I wasn't satisfied, and he didn't send any revision sketches so I dropped him. His contention is that I should pay for the two sketches that he drew which I rejected, which is A) Not what we agreed to and Makes no sense in the context of business. Note that in this entire transaction, not a single actual piece of finished art was ever sent to me or completed.


If you commissioned me for writing, and I sent you a rough draft scribbled on a napkin, it'd be unreasonable for you to pay for it if you weren't satisfied with the results. The entire point of the sketching process was to evaluate whether the final piece would reflect what I wanted, and they didn't. He also neglects to mention the fact that I paid him money to finish art which he never delivered upon. Here is that transaction:


<snip>


Long story short, I'm not going to pay for work that is substandard and I won't be utilizing, especially when that violates our original agreement. Note that the sketches he provided weren't even the correct size or the same size relative to each other. I'm out 30 dollars with no usable art or art that I would ever consider using. I can provide all email logs to moderators who wish to see them.

 

[Tsukihime]

If someone spends 8 hours on a piece of art but the buyer doesn't like it, should the buyer still pay the artist for the 8 hours that was put into it?


But what if someone spends 8 hours on a piece of art, and then the buyer doesn't accept it because he lost interest.

 

[Lorenze]

As much as I'm all for artists getting paid for their work, directly calling someone out in public isn't cool man.

Personally, it makes me less likely to hire you for anything. That's just me, though.

 

[Shaz]

Before we began, I clearly stated the stipulations in which I would pay for half of a commission of one bust, then pay the other half upon completion of a bust.


He then drew the other sketches and I wasn't satisfied

Did you pay him half the commission on the other two sketches before he began, as per your stipulations? Or did you stipulate that the first half-payment would be AFTER satisfactory sketches?


I see here he has started four busts (starting a bust begins with the sketch, not the colouring), so as per your agreement you should have paid half the commission on four busts. It sounds like you have only paid half the commission on two.

If you commissioned me for writing, and I sent you a rough draft scribbled on a napkin, it'd be unreasonable for you to pay for it if you weren't satisfied with the results.

It wouldn't be unreasonable if you had agreed to pay half right at the start. One assumes you had already checked out the quality of writing (or in this case art) before even contacting the person to ask about a commission, so you should already have known. And if I did commission you to write, I would expect you would be professional enough to not "scribble it on a napkin".


It seems there's quite a bit of work that's gone into that piece.

 

[Ocedic]

Did you pay him half the commission on the other two sketches before he began, as per your stipulations?

I see here he has started four busts (starting a bust begins with the sketch, not the colouring), so as per your agreement you should have paid half the commission on four busts. It sounds like you have only paid half the commission on two.

The payment was half before he began on the final work, not before the sketches.

The sketches did not meet my expectations, so I didn't want to commission the drawings. It's unreasonable to expect payment for a sketch that fails to satisfy the customer simply because the artist made it. If you side with him on this one, then you're basically saying artists can make whatever they want and still be expected to be paid 50% of a commission.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

I'm not going to weigh in at the moment on the whole situation, but I do think that was is a pretty nice sketch that looks pretty far from "scribbled on a napkin"...

 

[Ocedic]

It seems there's quite a bit of work that's gone into that piece.

Yes, he put a lot of effort into the sketch, but that's his prerogative to spend that much time on a sketch. The entire point of a sketch is to evaluate the pose and other aspects of the final drawing and so that it can be easily edited before any digitization is done to it. And yes, I did check out his work beforehand, of which I wanted final pieces. I'm buying digitization, not sketches. I don't ask artists to spend four hours on a sketch; there's a reason for that which is exactly this. If the customer doesn't like the art then the loss for both sides is minimal.

 

[Archeia]

I just talked to Ocedic for some stuff confirmation. Apparently, their agreement goes as:


1. Artist does a sketch,.


2. If he approves it, half-payment to start the final piece and then half upon completion.


3. The Artist made 2 Sketches that was approved. They were paid and Ocedic asked for the final bust quality.


4. The artist for some reason made 2 other sketches instead thus not following what the Client needs, wants and what possibly he can afford for right now.


I think in this one's case, it's unfair to say that Ocedic is a bad client. He made it clear that he wants some finalized work for the early sketches and not new sketches.

 

[Shaz]

I'm locking this in that case. Nothing will be gained by leaving it open.