Warrior Skill Suggestion

Discussion in 'Game Mechanics Design' started by Blizzero, Nov 13, 2018.

  1. Blizzero

    Blizzero Villager Member

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    First off, Hi everyone! I'm new here and I've just gotten RPG Maker MV a few months ago.

    Back on topic, the game I'm making in RPG Maker MV Will have a job class system. I've already got
    the classes themselves done. but I'm deciding on what skills the classes should have. Specifically,
    the warrior class.

    If anyone is willing to type their suggestions, please do so. That would be great!

    P.S. The Warrior is a physical class with offensive abilities that varies depending on what weapon they
    have equip. It can equip Swords, Axes, Spears, Great swords, and Hammers. It can also equip shields and
    Heavy Armor.

    I've found out some skill ideas,
    -Provoke - Taunt the enemies, making their physical attacks only hit you.
    -War Cry - Increase your Attack for three turns
    -Whirlwind slash - requires Great sword equipped, Deal damage to an enemy at 1.5 times normal damage, the target is random.
    -Earth Breaker - requires Hammer equipped, create a shock wave that deals 1.3 damage to all enemies with a high chance to stun them, at the cost of defense
    -Armor-break - requires Ax equipped, leap and slash your enemy right through their defense
    -Flurry slash - requires sword equipped, perform 3 slashes at an enemy with the damage of a conventional attack.
    -Brave Blitz - The warriors ultimate attack, perform 2 slashes at all enemies at 3 times the damage of a conventional attack.

    I'll also be removing their ability to equip spears, along with making them unable to equip shields
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
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  2. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    I think this is better in 'Game Mechanics Design', as this is not a straightforward implementation ("How do I...?) question.

    Please note that Game Mechanics Design is meant to look at these aspects of game play in a broad manner, so replies will not necessarily be directly applicable to your specific, individual project.

    Moving this to Game Mechanics Design.

     
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  3. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    Honestly, unless you're using the each-character-can-only-equip-one-weapon-type model, I'd suggest giving your warrior generic abilities usable with all weapons types. Makes things less complex to deal with for both you and your player. Some good sample warrior skills might be something like:

    - Expensive-but-powerful single target attack
    - Cleave attack that hits all enemies
    - Berserker-style attack that hits X random enemies
    - Slightly-weaker-than-basic attack that stuns the target
    - "Spellblade" attacks that deal specific elemental damage, or HP/MP drain
    - Combo-style attacks, where using "Charge" might deal some damage to the enemy and unlock "Devastating Strike" for use on the next round
    - Skill to increase attack power while decreasing defense

    Etc. Just gotta be creative. :)
     
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  4. Finnuval

    Finnuval World (his)story builder and barrel of ideas Veteran

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    I agree with Aesica with this addition : Maybe one special (very powerful but expensive skill) per weapon type that makes a tactical difference. I would also suggest having warriors not restricted to heavy armor alone but that's just me :)
     
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  5. Eschaton

    Eschaton Hack Fraud Veteran

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    The warrior should be designed around the attack command. Everything the warrior learns should modify the attack command, such as adjusting the critical hit rate, how many times the warrior attacks, what states the attack command can add, what elements the attack command exploits. The warrior should have as little in-battle menu-grinding as possible.

    If I am to be asked.
     
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  6. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

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    I'm particularly partial to @Eschaton's approach because with the Warrior's (traditional) high ATK stat and low MP pool, the Warrior is going to be using the Attack command a lot anyway - so why not go all-in on it, giving the Warrior a unique Attack-focused style while allowing his skills to be useful no matter how often he's using the Attack command.

    Alternatively, if you don't have a dedicated Tank/Vanguard type of character in the party, the Warrior can be a good tank. Give him skills to reduce incoming damage and draw enemy aggro (Target Rate) to himself. Give him very little "utility" beyond those defensive skills, so that you can keep his Offensive capability high without overpowering him. High ATK, and a few attack skills that deal even higher damage.
     
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  7. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    I know everyone's approach is different, but I really have to disagree here.

    I'm of a mind that the Attack command should be de-emphasized and characters should have a variety of skill options overall, even for warriors/melee-type characters. Some of the better MV games I've played give the warriors as diverse a skillset as the mages. Sometimes the warriors use different resources (TP instead of MP) or had more melee-themed skills and ability animations to set their playstyle apart, but the main thing is that they were made to be just as tactically interesting.

    I guess my point is that it's just more fun overall when every character type has several different tactical options instead of being stuck as the designated Attack bot who kills all the mooks so no one else has to use any MP. Personally, I want players using skills and spells in my game, so while I've kept Attack, it exists as the weakest move available (1x modifier, but with somewhat higher limit break gauge generation).
     
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  8. Eschaton

    Eschaton Hack Fraud Veteran

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    @Aesica, my design goals would be to try and make each class play different from one another. The warrior would have a very straightforward play style: they kill things with the weapon in their hand.

    If all classes have the same trick of making the player sift through their menu to select different skills, then how are they really that different from one another?

    But we have different design philosophies.
     
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  9. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

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    @Aesica Downplaying the Attack command (or really anything that's spammable) is a noble goal, but @Eschaton is speaking to creatively designing the Warrior's kit around skills that buff the Attack command in different ways (perhaps one improves the damage, one adds a bleed effect, one provides lifesteal, one briefly stuns the target, etc., and they can all stack). That gives the Warrior a lot of interesting, creative things he can do, but its thematic tie to Attacks makes it a lot different than other classes, which is cool. It also would be utilized a lot differently in regular encounters (where you wouldn't want to spend 3 turns improving the Attack command before using it) than in boss encounters (where the improvements will be really useful).

    Generally, when a designer wants to design combat encounters around slinging spells and skills somewhat freely, they will either offer a large/full MP restore after every battle, or they'll allow most skills to be cast from a secondary resource that naturally fills up over the course of battle (like RPG Maker's TP). Then the player doesn't need to conserve it (and rely on the Attack command) in most normal battles.
     
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  10. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    There's lots of ways to do this:
    1. Scale abilities with atk rather than mat and use the equipped weapon's element, if any.
    2. Use different resources than MP, or none at all. Maybe the warrior character uses cooldown-based attacks or TP generation during combat with no MP bar at all.
    3. Use different animations to convey the feeling of executing a physical attack instead of magic. Yanfly's action sequence packs are a godsend for this.
    4. Offer different utility. You probably wouldn't have counter-rate-increase or draw-attacks type abilities on a spellcaster.
    I fully intend for my "warrior" type characters to feel different from one another, but I'd like for it to be in such a way that they have different options rather than little or none at all.
     
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  11. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    Edit: Sorry for the double-post. The following came in after I made my initial post and I spaced out. I probably should've just edited it in, but oh well.

    Oh, perhaps I misunderstood? The way you describe it sounds a lot more like the FF5 Spellblade, where you'd use, say, Drain Blade or whatever, then every Attack after that had a draining effect.

    That's how I'm doing it, however the approach is slightly different. For example, the main character gets an ability that costs nothing, fully restores MP, and deals damage that scales with the percentage of missing MP. In theory, you could spam it endlessly, but the damage is only going to be worthwhile if she already has a lot of missing MP. Some characters can restore hefty chunks of their own MP (30% or so) but this ability itself has an MP cost greater than 0 or 1, so letting it run too low means they'll need to chug an ether. Others can restore X amount of MP, scaling with the healing stat, SPR (repurposed LUK) every round to everyone in the party. Even others recover X% per turn, making their gameplay about managing lower-cost budget skills vs higher-cost heavy hitting skills--or pairing them with a partywide MP refresh character. That said, there are still a few that use the alternate resource method--TP serves as a limit break mechanic in my game, so during longer, drawn-out fights, some can fully restore their own MP via their limit breaks.

    Overall, the main "cost" for refilling MP in battle is meant to be either a turn (you must take a turn to use the 30% MP restore ability, Limit Break, etc) or a character slot (maybe the partywide MP refresher isn't the "best" person to have in this particular dungeon in terms of raw offense, but their utility lets the other characters go on offense a bit harder.

    At the moment, I don't have MP restoring after battle though because I like the idea of the player budgeting and managing it in between battles through longer dungeons. This may change, though.
     
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  12. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

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    Yep, I think this is what he meant when he said that everything the Warrior learns will modify his basic Attack somehow. And honestly I think it's a very cool design concept to all-in on for a class.

    I very much like most of what you're doing here, but you'll need to be extremely careful about allowing the player to 'trade' turns for MP if you are also trying to add the chronic challenge dynamic of MP management through entire dungeons. This opens an obvious and very un-fun abuse case where the player eliminates all but one enemy in a mob, weakens or disables it, then sits there doing nothing but restoring their MP for a few turns until their MP is full, and finally finishes off the helpless enemy. Not only does this remove the chronic challenge, it also creates a minute or so of very unengaging downtime at the end of each battle - and from experience, I can tell you that players will do this!

    There are several ways around this abuse case, including:
    • Rewarding players for finishing battles quickly
    • Having enemies escape (or even self-destruct for big damage) if they are clearly screwed and the player seems to be intentionally delaying the battle
    • Granting "Radiance" instead of true MP for the MP-restoring skills (it's a long post - find the discussion of MP abuse around 70% down the page, or just Ctrl + F for Radiance)
    • Doing something unique and brilliant with troop design so that the player will never have the incentive to sit there and spam MP restores
    The easiest and least complex way, of course, is to just avoid this contradiction between mechanics. If you want MP management across a dungeon to be a prime concern, don't offer easy ways to refill it. If you want the player to be able to sling spells without long-term worries, don't carry over the resource they use to cast them from battle to battle (refill it to 100%, or start it at a fixed non-full amount each battle). If you want a balance between the two, have spells be cast from either MP or TP, where MP can't be refilled easily but TP refills quickly and naturally. (You can even allow MP and TP to cast the same skills! TP becomes a resource that players can freely use without long-term implications, whereas MP is a trump card to be used in dire situations.)
     
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  13. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    Yeah, locking down a lone mook while spamming MP refill abilities is something I don't want the player to feel like they have to do. Unfortunately, I can't really come up with a solid solution that I'm happy with, aside from the main character's MP refill. (Freely usable, mediocre damage if full MP, but heavy damage if low. Full MP restore regardless.)

    The enemy behaviors will definitely work for some enemies, but it'd be a bit weird if every enemy blew up or ran away when left alone, so it may only be a partial solution. Ultimately I feel like that'd just lead to players learning which enemies do those things and which don't, abusing the ones that don't accordingly. I suppose the FF4 approach could work, where many of the normally-mediocre enemies use alternate (and often dangerous) attack patterns if they end up as the last mook standing.

    As for the other options, I'm not too keen on quick battle completion rewards, or really, battle rating mechanics in general. While Radiance is definitely an interesting approach, it's not quite what I'm going for.

    I'm still at the mapping, story flow, etc phase, so the details of battles is still up in the air. It's entirely possible I'll just go with full HP/MP restores after battle, or at least via save points waypoints before important fights. I think it'll depend largely on how obligated playtesters or I feel to "stop and refresh" periodically during dungeon crawls.
     
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