Weapons and Classes

Discussion in 'Game Mechanics Design' started by AMGLime, Oct 22, 2016.

  1. AMGLime

    AMGLime Veteran Veteran

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    Alright guys, I've been working on a Mini-Project. It's a Class based Dungeon Crawler. At the start of the game, you pick 4 Classes out of a pool of 7, and then go through a Dungeon for the entire game. Obviously there's a few planned mechanics so you aren't ALWAYS in the dungeon, but that's the general feel.


    So, I've been trying to figure out how to have these Classes and weapons designed, and I want to get your guys input and tell me what you think can work, or wont work or make them feel too similar to other characters.


    Starting with the Classes, we have:

    Guardian - High HP and Physical Strength. Uses Heavy Armor, Swords, Shields and Axes. Has a Cover System built in to defend weak allies. Naturally higher target rate.


    Templar - Relatively balanced Character. Uses Heavy Armor, Swords, Hammers and Shields. Can use weaker support magic. Naturally higher target rate.


    Rogue - Low strength and high speed. Uses Medium Armor, Swords and Daggers. Has high evasion, and can use tricks in combat (Like a Smoke Bomb to run away). Is also able to dual wield and can lockpick doors and chests early.


    Ranger - Like the Rogue, uses Medium Armor and a Bow. Is Immune to Blind and has 100% Hit Rate, prevents back attacks as well using special Arrows. (Poison Arrow for example)


    Cleric - The Healer, uses Light Armor, Hammers, Shields and Staffs. Uses Support Magic.


    Mage - The Mage lol, uses Light Armor, Staffs and Daggers. Uses Destructive Magic.


    Wanderer - The Red Mage, uses all Armor, and all weapons (excluding the best of the best), and some Support and Destructive Magic.



    The Weapons are:

    Daggers: Low damage, but a chance to have more then one action.


    Sword: Highest damage one-handed weapon, but that's all it offers usually.


    Axe: Two-handed Axes, have high damage but lower your speed and can cleave all enemies.


    Scepter/Hammer: One handed weapon that also offers you an increase to MP.


    Bow: Two-handed Weapon, has high Critical Rates.


    Staff: Two-handed weapon, Increases Magical damage instead of physical damage.



    The intended design is to customize your party with your Class Choices, who can further be changed with the type of weapons you give them. You can have a Guardian deal more damage while using an Axe, or be more based around tanking for your party with a Sword or Shield. Templars are by definition going to be tanking, but they can be more aggressive or supportive depending on the weapon. Rogues are where I'm more concerned about these choices, Daggers are weaker then Swords, but have a chance to give extra actions so you can go Double Dagger for Actions, Double Swords if you just want damage, or even a combination to find a middle ground. Mages can go Staff for more bang for their buck, or even grab a Dagger to try and get in multiple casts instead.


    Now, is there any way you guys could change this? Does it seem like a good design? Need more information? Me and my friends have been discussing this and while I think the idea of Daggers especially is a good idea, I have friends who rather weapons just be raw stats. What do you guys think?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2016
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  2. Wookiee420

    Wookiee420 Veteran Veteran

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    what you are describing sounds like a totally different battle system than what is with RPGmaker. What you can do is make your classes attributes better than the next but the programming and the planning required to write all the "if/else" for every character and every bad guy..I may be wrong, and i tend to be at times, but i think you should research the battle systems and then rethink this
     
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  3. Dr. Delibird

    Dr. Delibird Veteran Veteran

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    Actually this is most certainly achievable with the right plugins and the right use of said plugins + the right use of states, common events and I think a few other things that I am missing off of the top of my head.
     
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  4. AMGLime

    AMGLime Veteran Veteran

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    The increased chance of Actions is already part of RM MV, the rest of that I don't really see as even needing Plug Ins as the current file has no Plug Ins and they all work like I've put here. I've made the Party member making thing with 5 Page Event that does indeed have a lot of What If Functions, for choosing your class, choosing gender of said class, naming said class and then marking them as Party Member 1-4 then flipping a switch that makes it so you can't choose that class again.
     
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  5. jonthefox

    jonthefox Veteran Veteran

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    I disagree with Wookie, it's very achievable and looks like the groundwork for a good dungeon crawler.   The thing that gives me pause is the idea of hammers offering bonus MP--i don't see how that makes sense thematically.  I would instead go for something like bonus damage vs. undead.
     
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  6. AMGLime

    AMGLime Veteran Veteran

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    I classify them as Hammers, but really they're Scepters. The icon is just a Club/Hammer lol. Thanks for the feedback!
     
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  7. AcetheSuperVillain

    AcetheSuperVillain Veteran Veteran

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    I have drawn up plans to make games as you describe in the past, but I've never gotten very far with them.  Some of the mechanics I've come up with are:

    Swords are default.


    Alternatively, swords are a bit weaker than normal, but give you a chance to parry/evade.  


    Small weapons like Daggers and Knuckles increase Agility.  I usually use ATB combat system where more agility means more actions.  You could also use something like Yanfly's Weapon Unleash to make them more likely to double attack or whatever.  


    Heavy or unbalanced weapons like Axes and Hammers decrease Agility, but do extra damage.  Naturally, this should be balanced against faster weapons, a dagger attacking twice as much as an axe should do half as much damage as the axe if the two are supposed to be the same quality level.  


    Sharp weapons like Daggers and Axes have a higher chance of critical hits.  


    Blunt weapons like Hammers and Knuckles have a chance of stunning or doing "speed damage" in an ATB or CTB system.  


    Alternatively, a more realistic approach, blunt weapons ignore a certain amount of defense compared to sharp weapons, but sharp weapons have a higher base damage.  


    Long weapons like spears and whips are a bit weaker but increase your defense.  (Rationality, the enemy has to be more careful when attacking you)  


    Possibly, short weapons like daggers and knuckles decrease defense or evade because they can't be used to parry larger weapons.  


    Ranged weapons like bows and guns decrease your defense but have increased accuracy or work with row dynamics or whatever.  


    There can be multiple classes of magic weapons with similar abilities, maybe staffs increase magic attack, talismans increase MP, wands replace your attack with a particular magic spell, rune sabers steal MP, etc.  


    Exotic weapons can be a combination of these properties, like a Scythe might be a combination of an axe and a magic staff, a kanabo might be a cross between a sword and a hammer.  


    I've come to prefer that penalties come in the form of percentages instead of absolute values.  For example, if the heavy axe does -20 agl, the loss is more of a big deal to a Guardian with 50 agl, than to the Rogue rogue with 80 agl.  Suddenly, it makes more sense to give your Rogue all the axes and hammers and your guardian all the daggers and bows.  But if the heavy axe does -20% agl, that's not as big a deal for the Guardian as it is for the Rogue.  


    If you can figure it out, Disgaea has always had a system of stat proficiencies that I always liked.  For example, a warrior might have 120% ATK and 80% MAG while a Mage could have 60% ATK, 140% MAG.  So if you find an item that grants 200 ATK and 100 MAG, the warrior's actually going to get 240 ATK and 80 MAG from it, while the Mage would get 120 ATK and 140 MAG.  In Disgaea, these proficiencies get better over time, so a rank 1 Warrior might actually start with just 100% ATK while a rank 6 Warrior has 160% ATK.  Like the last suggestion, this is in place to discourage players from giving their mages battle axes and their warriors magic wands, especially with Disgaea's reincarnation system.  



    I would also extend this kind of system to the rest of your equipment.  Like let's say armor can be heavy armor (-agl, ++def), mythril armor (+def), runed armor (-mat, +mdf, +def).  So you have quite a bit of customization available.  
     
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  8. AMGLime

    AMGLime Veteran Veteran

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    I actually did extend the differences to Armor. Heavy Armor increases HP by a lot, and Physical Defense. Medium Armor is a moderate HP increase, and then a balance Defense and Magic Defense. Light Armor is a minimal HP increase, and then a bit of Physical Defense but a lot of Magical Defense.


    For example, Leather Armor is classified as Heavy Armor. It gives 50 HP, and 7 Defense.


    Then you have the Leather Plate for Medium Armor. It gives 25HP and 3 Defense and 3 Magic Defense.


    Then you have the Cotton Robe. It gives 10 HP, 1 Defense and 5 Magic Defense.


    When it comes to secondary increases, like Critical Chance, Evasion bonuses and the like. Heavy Armor later gives a drop to speed, but can also increase your Attack and Critical Chance. Medium Armor tends to give Evasion bonuses and Critical Chance, while Light Armor can also increase Magic and MP. Now that's just an overall example off the top of my head.


    I've also toyed with the idea of making Axes, cause they're two-handed, lower speed noticeably but also have the ability to hit all enemies when you swing it. Like I imagine wide swings that cleave enemies.
     
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  9. AcetheSuperVillain

    AcetheSuperVillain Veteran Veteran

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    I suppose that's the trope, but it's not very realistic.  If you think about it, axe heads are a lot smaller than swords, so they're less likely to do "area effect" kinds of damage.  


    I would suggest looking up some realistic weapon review videos.  I'm a big fan of Skallagrim, here's a few related to axes:


    Axes compared to swords:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN7s1Uh8rhc


    Dane axe review:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHRt4nDfknI  


    Hammers/Maces:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh1QDf_6Dmk  (stating many of the same things about them as about axes)


    Sword, Axes, Hammers vs Helmet:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4Umh-pa7FA


    Another Helmet Test:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l47Idc7anG4


    In depth look at different kinds of axes:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxrlR7xBXpE


    Best Weapon for Zombie Apocalypse:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB1Rrd7Ycs4
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2016
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