Weighing Decisions Different System vs Job System.

Discussion in 'Game Mechanics Design' started by Zurea, Nov 12, 2014.

  1. Zurea

    Zurea Alchemist in Training Veteran

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    Alright, this is what I really want feedback on. I'm using Galv's Magic Shards script http://galvs-scripts.com/2013/03/24/magic-shards/ as the basis of the 'skills' in my game, sure each class has its own unique skills and abilities, but the shard system offers new twist to FF7's Materia system. Allowing a character to have dual elemental skills (thanks to the Element Set script by Victor Sant) when they normally wouldn't have them as well as allow combinations of different abilities to grant skills and spells they normally wouldn't have, like a fire shard giving the Flame slash skill to the Templar.

    Some upsides to this system are

    -Shards can be items, weapons or armor which can be used as normal or as shards.

    -Weapon and Armor shards can limit use and make only certain classes use that type of shard

    -Weapon and armor still give features of the shard, but still consume that slot space (if I've read the script right http://galvs-scripts.com/galvs-magic-shards/)

    My friend however thinks I should go with a more familiar system like a job system. Which I admit people probably understand better then Galv's shard system. The problem comes here. Should for my first game use a more familiar system that more players will know, or use a more original system that can give players not only permanent use of skills/spells equipped but also allow them to sacrifice the shard to take and get a one time use of that shard's double attack (such as using a fire shard in battle would do the Fire+Fire shard combo skill) I'm mainly looking for feedback on the two systems and what people think about one over the other right now.

    Reason I haven't used a Job system yet

    -Conflicts with one class that is a plot point of the story

    I'd have used both but I didn't want to bog down players with too many different features for my first game and keep it relatively simple. So if anyone could share their input on what they think of both systems could you please share, I'm a bit still on the fence about which though leaning toward the Shard system. Sorry if this is in the wrong place.
     
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  2. Susan

    Susan Veteran Veteran

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    Using the Job system may be easier for creating your first game. It is fairly easy to configure and people understand it better, due to many games having this feature.

    Using the Shards system would be unique and allow a different style of customization. It may be a bit difficult to set and balance. The system may be more unique than a job class system. The plans you have for this system sounds interesting.

    It all depends on how you set it up.
     
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  3. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    For a first game I personally went with neither, and just did a traditional fixed class system where the player can swap in and out different party members if they want a different class. Reason I did that is I didn't want to overcomplicate things, and even balancing this is proving tough, I'd hate to try to balance something more complicated.
     
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  4. Zurea

    Zurea Alchemist in Training Veteran

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    Balancing hasn't honestly proven too be difficult on the skill side more so the stat side, so I'll have the same balancing issues either way I go. I'm more curious about people's view on the two systems rather which I should use as I'm swaying either way. I already know the issues I have with one system will arise in the other as the issues are stat based and not skill based (I fixed my skill balancing in another topic already).
     
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  5. whitesphere

    whitesphere Veteran Veteran

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    If you say the straight class/job system conflicts with a plot need, then you should use the shard system, because the most important thing in an RPG are the needs of the plot.
     
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  6. C-C-C-Cashmere (old)

    C-C-C-Cashmere (old) Resident Weirdo Veteran

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    I'd say it depends on the game actually. You'd have to make a personal judgement on which will be better for the game, based on probable player satisfaction, your Dev skills, your personal prefs and other factors. I think its hard to say objectively "this one is better than that one" because its just whatever is best fit for your game. You could get peeps to trial a version each, one with one system and one with the other, then ask for their opinions on which one rocks the hardest. Either way, I'd say it's real game-dependent.
     
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  7. Susan

    Susan Veteran Veteran

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    In that case, I'd go more for the shards system.

    It shows the potential for greater customization than the class system. Ability to combine magic/skills sounds interesting too- like in BOF4, fire + wind = firewind (does stronger damage to multiple enemies). The game mechanic involving the keeping or using a shard sounds promising too. There are lots of things that can be done with this system that can't be done with the job system.
     
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  8. Zurea

    Zurea Alchemist in Training Veteran

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    Well that helps actually. Also there's about a dozen job scripts so I think I will end up staying where I stand with the shard system. Just this little chat has given me better insight on my own project and view and gives me ideas to try with other systems and mechanics down the line.
     
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  9. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

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    I like the shard system better.

    If your only concern is "will the player understand it and be comfortable with it"... the key to that cell is in your own hands.  Add whatever is needed to the interface to make it intuitive and informative, and give an explanation of the system to the player in the most clear, concise, and accessible way possible.
     
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  10. Zurea

    Zurea Alchemist in Training Veteran

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    I did have a tutorial set up to give a brief but reusable explanation of the system and I plan to have one, my only issue is for some reason when ever I set the event of this as soon as it activates it locks the option to make the menu unselectable and would make the player able to collect shards, use them as items, but unable to actually equip them as meant to be. Kind of like playing Final Fantasy 7 and being unable to equip materia. But yeah you're right Wavelength, and I feel I may have done a good job explaining the system, but its that little error that messes it up, I've looked through the script and the event and can't figure out what I did to turn it off, the script has a command for the option, but I never used it in the event.
     
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  11. Wavelength

    Wavelength Pre-Merge Boot Moderator

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    Would probably be best to ask Galv (he's a very helpful guy) or to show us your entire event setup in one of the help subforums.
     
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  12. Zurea

    Zurea Alchemist in Training Veteran

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    Was going to ask him about something else, but like all scripts it was human error that was the problem (was using the item id I was using and not the shard script id), I've got a testing area made now separate from the actual game without having to go through all that. But I'll set up the tutorial again and test, if I have the same issue then I'll post it and the script. I need to do more testing on weapon/armor shard types to see how it works, I like doing things myself first and when that gets me nowhere then I ask, its how I usually do things, but yeah, weighing the two systems the job system would have conflicts with the story and the classes, not to mention there's like a dozen job systems out there and the amount of time I put into Galv's system already (been about a month work now.) with up to 90 combination skills. Yeah I think what I really needed was confirmation of what I already knew and that is that the shard system is unique and very flexible as giving either the option to forsake it or use it at the player's desecration.
     
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