Rules Welcome to the 2017 INDIE GAME MAKER CONTEST!

bgillisp

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Depends on the skill level of the player. I can beat my own “demo game” in 1.5 hours but some of my buddies who never played rpg games took 12 hours, others took 3 hours. Lol.
Right. But how, in 168 hours, did you make a game that takes people 12 hours to beat? It takes about 100 hours to make 1 hour of content, and as of when you posted that the contest had only been running about 168 hours. So even if you didn't sleep, eat, or go to work, the MAXIMUM you should have is 1.5 hours of content. Unless your entire game is take one step and fight a 100,000 HP slime, repeat.

Remember, you had to START making this game as of when the contest was announced. Right now it sounds a lot like you are trying to enter a game you started before the contest, which isn't allowed.
 
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ACECORP

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Right. But how, in 168 hours, did you make a game that takes people 12 hours to beat? It takes about 100 hours to make 1 hour of content, and as of when you posted that the contest had only been running about 168 hours. So even if you didn't sleep, eat, or go to work, the MAXIMUM you should have is 1.5 hours of content. Unless your entire game is take one step and fight a 100,000 HP slime, repeat.

Remember, you had to START making this game as of when the contest was announced. Right now it sounds a lot like you are trying to enter a game you started before the contest, which isn't allowed.
I have a lot of pre-existing assets, plugins, and logic that I put into a demo type game over the past few days. I still have to finish it. This is what I do. There is no way it takes hundreds of hours to make 1, 2, or even 3 hours of content if you have pre-existing assets, plugins, and other pre-existing logic components.

In fact, this new game project will actually replace my previous demo since I cleaned a lot of things up by creating an entirely new RPGMaker project and brought over only those pre-existing assets, plugins, and other pre-existing asset components that are relevant to this new project and left out all the stuff I don’t plan on using as I move forward.

As for playtime, it takes some people 1.5 hours and others it takes much longer.

Now if RPGMaker changes their rules to exclude pre-existing assets, plugins, and other pre-existing logic components then yea, I would be excluded, but that’s not what their current rules state.

I also read they can change their rules any time for any reason.

Bottom line is what I am doing is revolutionary, especially with the date based content and geo based content. Venture capital has also taken notice with a formal commitment that will only execute once $100K of grass roots revenue or sponsorship arrives.

It would be perfect if I could win this as it would put what I am doing through the stratosphere.

However, if RPGMaker changes the contest rules because they want to eliminate professional developers and game entraprenaurs like myself in favor of hobbyist type developers that’s their perogative.

I will still enter the game and if they want to disqualify it for whatever reason that’s up to them.

However, it would behoove them to consider it because it will significantly raise the profile of RPGMaker if that’s something they want to take advantage of.

If they want to review it, disqualify it due to a rule change on pre-existing assets or some other rule change, but decide to promote and support it as a totally separately endeavor outside the contest because they see how crazy awesome it raises the degica/RPGMaker profile, that’s still the same as winning based on the way I define “victory”

As it is often said, “take the leap, give it 110% - your all - and let the cards fall where they may”.
 
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bgillisp

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Ok, 1.5 hours being the average I can see. It was the 12 hours that got me wondering how myself. Just understand though that usually it is 100 hours to make a GOOD 1 hour of content. After all, back in the 2014 IGMC I put together an hour of content in about a week myself. It wasn't good though. And since then I did manage to make 2 hours of content in about one week (I think it was 9 days to be precise) when I had the time off of work for all but 2 of those days (and those 2 days were only 4 hour work days), but that was a case of I knew exactly what I wanted to do and how to get there.

So I'll concede that 2 hours is possible...if you have 40 - 80 hours to make it, know exactly where you are going with it, and everything goes well for you on the first try. Rare, but it can happen. Good luck.
 

Gin

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@ACECORP ..You say there are people who will beat it in 12 hours? So you had already tested it?!
So you come to an indi competition, state you are a professional, and you are so certain of the coolness and professionalism of your game, above everyone else(because everyone in IGMC are working hard and are having difficulties here ot there, because in game making there is something always that doesn´t go as planed, but not you!:distrust:), a game made in one week and tested even though you also state it isn´t finished?!... That´s not cool dude!:headshake:
So what I´m going to do is this:...
I´m gonna give you the stare! :stare::stare::stare:
 

NectherLouieSouribio

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@ACECORP : I don't see anything wrong with submitting a Demo of your full game to the contest. I would want to play it and it's a good exposure for your game.

Although I would like to point out the very first rule of the competition:
  1. Development on contest entries MUST be started AFTER the beginning of the contest (October 4th, 2017). Commissions for the contest must also be started after the beginning of the contest. Pre-existing assets NOT created specifically for the contest are allowed.
I don't know about you but as I understand it "Development" means starting anew from planning to polishing. Im not saying you can't use pre-existing plugins or assets or anything because the rules allow it. You might as well make a 15-30 minutes new game with pre-existing assets ang plugins and mechanics you can find in your game.

At the end of the day its still up to the organizers. I will try the demo of your game though if you decide to add it as an entry.

Happy Developing! :)
 
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@Gin @bgillisp @NectherLouieSouribio
I don't really mind his speed but rather his way of pushing past the rules in a clever way. Because like it or not he actually hasn't broken any rules. I made sure to check them properly.

The problem is that development after oct. 4 can mean 2 things. Either what Necther said [which is actually how I interpreted it] or simply starting from scratch again after oct 4, doesn't matter if it's already an pre existing idea because all it says here is development on entries must be started after oct. 4 not idea's. So technically he clears this rule. No where else in the rules does it prohibit the ability to use a similar idea already made it just says you have to have started working on the game after october 4.

What I think we are all concerned about is the fact that he basically just restarted a already pre-existing idea and demo, but this IGMC submission is an updated version of his demo. He did start again from scratch but it really just seems like he started a fresh file and just put in the same thing he had already done before, but took certain things out and fixed some bugs from before, which again mean's he's in a way just updating his previous demo.

He even states himself that this new demo that will be used for the IGMC will replace his previous demo.
In fact, this new game project will actually replace my previous demo since I cleaned a lot of things up by creating an entirely new RPGMaker project and brought over only those pre-existing assets, plugins, and other pre-existing asset components that are relevant to this new project and left out all the stuff I don’t plan on using as I move forward.
See this is not just me randomly saying things you even said it yourself.

However, if RPGMaker changes the contest rules because they want to eliminate professional developers and game entraprenaurs like myself in favor of hobbyist type developers that’s their perogative.
If somehow they clear up some misunderstandings in their rules this doesn't mean that Rpg Maker is wanting to eliminate professional's. @JacobM seems like a very amazing pro and someone who gained a lot of respect from me. I think if anything the only thing people are upset with your situation is not the speed but rather; while everyone else is working hard to put out something new you seem to be updating an already made demo with pre-existing everything. While you didn't break any rules you really seem to be pushing it in terms of development and pre-existing assets.
 

OnslaughtSupply

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And there's this https://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?threads/eternal-conquest-the-great-war.85245/
Started on October 5th. It seems like you are just going to submit a copy paste version of your game as a new game started after the contest.

Personally I don't believe it is in the spirit of the contest, starting something new and original made in a month. But I am not a judge, and will see you in competition and good luck in your endeavor.
 
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Gin

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@Gin @bgillisp @NectherLouieSouribio
I don't really mind his speed but rather his way of pushing past the rules in a clever way.... he actually hasn't broken any rules.
He made copy paste of the game he was making, and is polishing it. Either IGMC had happened or not, what changes is that now he has a more polished game he had already been working on, and will continue after IGMC(cause this polished version will replace the unpolished). So which part of polishing(yes, copying and pasting what one wants or not, in order to be fit for IGMC, a game that he hadn´t had intention of being 1 hour game play, is polishing an already made game), isn´t rule breacking?!:popcorn:
Having ideas before the IGMC that´s a thing...to just trow a project already being made , and just polishing it...that´s another!>_>
So excuse me, but I will continue to...
...give "the stare">_>
I will talk nothing more about this(it´s boring, and it´s not my place..I´m not a judge...). To each his own...Good luck to everyone and have fun!:kiss::kiss::kiss:
 
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This will also be the last from me as I feel only the judges will have the final say.

@Gin I understand 100% where you're coming from with this as I too disapprove, however, he still restarted his game from "scratch" again technically and rebuilt what he had already built. The rules did not mention anything about pre-existing idea's being redone. Only that pre-existing assets are A-ok and the game should begin development on October 4th. The rule's have to be listened to. In this case there is no rule that says he can't do this.

Think about it like this.
You can build a house with pre-existing blueprints and resources. But the house has to be started on October 4th.

ACECORP already built a house and made his blueprints long ago. He plans on building the same house again but this time a little more polished, using the same blueprints and resources he already made. You see technically he is "building" the house again and is starting after October 4th. The problem is the rules that allows him to compete with the same house idea since it never states he can't do that.

Again. I agree. I really do not like what transpired however, he really is just following the rules, but in a very loosely way. Unless they clear up the rules then loop holes like this can happen.

Also I second what you said. Everyone good luck on your own games and have fun. Sure the money's great but remember to also use this chance to put your name out there and make a dent in the community. Now's your time to shine.
 

bgillisp

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I've looked more at the evidence, and all I gotta say is if their game counts, mine does too. And I really don't think the judges want to go down that can of worms. So I think a judge needs to rule about this soon.
 
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I've looked more at the evidence, and all I gotta say is if their game counts, mine does too. And I really don't think the judges want to go down that can of worms. So I think a judge needs to rule about this soon.
@bgillisp I agree.
Also on a side note...
I LOVE YOU BGILLISP KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!!!!!!!:kaojoy:
 

bgillisp

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You know though, this discussion makes me wonder why no one has thought of doing a IGMC revival contest. You take your old project and use the next month to polish it or add more to it, then enter it again. Sure, those who have been working on it non-stop since will have a slight edge, but I've seen some one month projects play better than an 11 year project. I mean, most would agree that most IGMC 2014 entries were better than say Duke Nukem Forever or Daikatana.
 

ACECORP

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@ACECORP ..You say there are people who will beat it in 12 hours? So you had already tested it?!
So you come to an indi competition, state you are a professional, and you are so certain of the coolness and professionalism of your game, above everyone else(because everyone in IGMC are working hard and are having difficulties here ot there, because in game making there is something always that doesn´t go as planed, but not you!:distrust:), a game made in one week and tested even though you also state it isn´t finished?!... That´s not cool dude!:headshake:
So what I´m going to do is this:...
I´m gonna give you the stare! :stare::stare::stare:
@Gin Well you are more than welcome to give me the stare. :) I am not certain of anything but I definitely want folks to play the rough demo I am putting together and proffer some recommendations on how to make it better. My focus is on the story line, geo-based content, and time/date content. Graphics and that type of stuff will be addressed later on, hopefully after some investment I can completely overhaul the graphics.

That is why I initially asked the questions I asked in my first post on this forum. Based on my reading of the rules, it looked like I was following them 100% as written, but I wanted to make sure.

I also wanted to be honest and state all facts, so the judges and contest folks have that info. That is why I posted as much info about the details as I did. I want to make sure full honesty and information is declared and everything is in the light.

As for what it will turn into? Yes it’s not even 4% finished. It won’t be until Q4 2019 but I almost have enough done so that I have a submittable demo for the purposes of this contest that shows the geo-content and time/date content. I’m super excited. And I want feedback because I want to make something people love and want to play.

All in all I wish everyone the best of luck! Lets All put out awesome stuff for everyone to play and test and checkout and let the chips roll out on the table where they may. Regardless of anything, we are all “innovating” and “creating” and letting folks play and test out what we are submitting- and that is the most important!

@Gin @bgillisp @NectherLouieSouribio
I don't really mind his speed but rather his way of pushing past the rules in a clever way. Because like it or not he actually hasn't broken any rules. I made sure to check them properly.

The problem is that development after oct. 4 can mean 2 things. Either what Necther said [which is actually how I interpreted it] or simply starting from scratch again after oct 4, doesn't matter if it's already an pre existing idea because all it says here is development on entries must be started after oct. 4 not idea's. So technically he clears this rule. No where else in the rules does it prohibit the ability to use a similar idea already made it just says you have to have started working on the game after october 4.

What I think we are all concerned about is the fact that he basically just restarted a already pre-existing idea and demo, but this IGMC submission is an updated version of his demo. He did start again from scratch but it really just seems like he started a fresh file and just put in the same thing he had already done before, but took certain things out and fixed some bugs from before, which again mean's he's in a way just updating his previous demo.

He even states himself that this new demo that will be used for the IGMC will replace his previous demo.


See this is not just me randomly saying things you even said it yourself.



If somehow they clear up some misunderstandings in their rules this doesn't mean that Rpg Maker is wanting to eliminate professional's. @JacobM seems like a very amazing pro and someone who gained a lot of respect from me. I think if anything the only thing people are upset with your situation is not the speed but rather; while everyone else is working hard to put out something new you seem to be updating an already made demo with pre-existing everything. While you didn't break any rules you really seem to be pushing it in terms of development and pre-existing assets.
@Enigma_Productions I think it would be great for judges to weigh in too. That is why I wanted to be very honest, clear, and hold nothing back from anyone.

I am also looking forward to seeing and playing everyone's projects that are put out there too. I think there are a lot of great folks here who love gaming and who have awesome mad skills at rpgmaker. I hope we all have a chance to showcase our stuff and I hope we all can benefit in some way putting our "all" into this contest!

[dpost]ACECORP[/dpost]
@Sharm -- Sorry.. were did I double post here? If I did, it was an accident... I may have clicked something on my phone by accident that resulted in a second post but I don't see it. Please PM me with the details so I know.
 
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I didn't even know that there is a contest going on, just found out now by accident.
Won't even plan to enter, no time for it (luckily).

Well, I hope too see some great (and fair to the rules of the contest) games, even if I kinda began to get bored of turn based RPGs.
I want to see some great menus, so don't just settle for the default crappy window menus, pretty please! :D
Good luck to everyone!

Okay, time to actually read the rules... :D

Btw, if I were to make a puzzle game with randomly generated puzzles (so, each one is slightly different), in which the only purpose is to solve the puzzles without any story-line elements, how would the judges count the required 1 hour game-play for that game? I mean, it is "'just" a puzzle solving game afterall where all the player does is to solve similar puzzles one after the other.
Kinda like many puzzle mobile games I saw. My nephews always play these kind of games and I was just curious about this.
Not that I would make this puzzle game (well, not for this contest anyway), just wanted to know how can the effective game-play time be counted in this scenario.
 

bgillisp

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@Gin
All in all I wish everyone the best of luck! Lets All put out awesome stuff for everyone to play and test and checkout and let the chips roll out on the table where they may. Regardless of anything, we are all “innovating” and “creating” and letting folks play and test out what we are submitting- and that is the most important!
That is, honestly, the best approach to have. For example, I'm using this contest to finish up a game that doesn't count per the rules. But, I'm not letting that stop me. Sure, I can't win, but I can still finish the game, and see where that goes.
 

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This is clearly against the spirit of the rules.

We shouldn't be required to write lawyer legalese to prevent people from doing things that are blatantly not what the rules intend.

It is obvious that, even if I manually redo every bit of eventing manually, that if I'm straight copying from an existing project (with some polish), I am not making something new.

I'll wait for the judges and @Stoic before we make an official ruling, as we haven't had time to discuss it yet really, but I personally find this very unfair to other competitors.
 

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That might be doing devil's advocate... Not to be pushy here... but humor me there, as I am on the spriting most of the time on anything. But, prepaid DLC assets, are pre-made assets? As in bought and made pre-contest entries? Wouldn't it mean that everyone has to build up from scratch all assets? As in sound, system, fonts, sprites, tilesets, BGs, battle backgrounds, battlers and animation? Just that it seems more than a month to me. But true I end up doing $Big_Monsters all the time!

(In fact, in retrospect I wonder if I made the very same comment on Steam or Discord before... hope it wasn't here. But it seems I still officially didn't understand if buying assets from Degica/humble bundle/Steam was more safe than asset commission/bank/reserve.)
 

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Pre-made assets are not the problem. Reworking a game that has already been made and calling it new is the problem. But, I am going to ask that we all drop the discussion until someone even more official than Touchfuzzy weighs in.
 

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