What are the #1 mistakes that RPG Maker games make?

[kerbonklin]

@Kerbonklin: Ohhh, you're talking like how many tiles you can have on the sheet. whoops Well, I like the smaller sizes and having multiple tilesets WAAAAY better than the old way of one giant, endless, neverending image of tiles. That was a hassle; I like compact things. And just mixmatching the A2, A5 B, C whatever as I need to.

err wow this is a derailment of this topic. Sorry 'bout that

........What are you talking about? By "maps only having one set tileset" i'm referring to people who can't use two whole sets of A-tiles without having to make a major edit that could come out terrible due to autotile formattings.

 

[Zoltor]

Wait, can't you have like 999 different tilesets? How is that a limitation?

Not on a single map, 999 is how many can just be stored in the database.

You're only allowed one tileset for each of the Atypes, so that's extremely limiting.

 

[Makio-Kuta]

Okay, I don't really want to derail the topic further, but I guess I need to explain what the heck it is I am trying to say.


You have a tileset for a forest. You have it set as tileset 1, you name it FOREST. It uses A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, B, C, D, E Cool!


You're making your forest, setting each map to use tileset FOREST. Cool! You get to the last map and you want a big house on this map and you don't have room for your house left on your tilesheets. Well! Not cool. But wait! That map doesn't use anything from sheet E. Well, we're cool again.


You make a NEW sheet E. And then you make a new tileset, tileset #2. you name it FOREST-special or FOREST-house or some name. You set tileset #2's 'E' sheet to be this new E sheet you made. Now you set the final map of your forest to use tileset FOREST-house instead of just plain old FOREST. VOILA! You have surpassed the limitations you thought were there.


Better yet, you can put more things on this E to use for special maps such as this. In the end, it's less files and less bloat then going 'ah dang, guess I'd better parallax everything now.' EDIT I mean, you put the whole house on E. I know you can't use E to replicate the way you would normally make houses. Or heck, maybe you don't need some of the junk you have on A3 on this map and you can totally build the house from scratch if you want and have a special A3 to use on special maps. Whichever. Or like, you could not even make a new tilesheet and just set your town B as your special forest E and save even more time and space. Since, as this was a poor example, the chances of using up all the space on A3 is rather improbable. Especially in a forest.


This is what I am talking about when I say make a new tilset and swap out the A1 through E as need be.


Now I say nothing more on the matter because that's not the point of this thread. If I'm still not making sense, feel free to PM me. @.@ But I tried to be clear.


@Zoltor: Yes, that was a misunderstanding that was cleared up last page.

 

[Zoltor]

Okay, I don't really want to derail the topic further, but I guess I need to explain what the heck it is I am trying to say.

You have a tileset for a forest. You have it set as tileset 1, you name it FOREST. It uses A1, A2, A3, A4, A5, B, C, D, E Cool!

You're making your forest, setting each map to use tileset FOREST. Cool! You get to the last map and you want a big house on this map and you don't have room for your house left on your tilesheets. Well! Not cool. But wait! That map doesn't use anything from sheet E. Well, we're cool again.

You make a NEW sheet E. And then you make a new tileset, tileset #2. you name it FOREST-special or FOREST-house or some name. You set tileset #2's 'E' sheet to be this new E sheet you made. Now you set the final map of your forest to use tileset FOREST-house instead of just plain old FOREST. VOILA! You have surpassed the limitations you thought were there.

Better yet, you can put more things on this E to use for special maps such as this. In the end, it's less files and less bloat then going 'ah dang, guess I'd better parallax everything now.'

This is what I am talking about when I say make a new tilset and swap out the A1 through E as need be.

Now I say nothing more on the matter because that's not the point of this thread. If I'm still not making sense, feel free to PM me. @.@ But I tried to be clear.

@Zoltor: Yes, that was a misunderstanding that was cleared up last page.

All A slots have special functions, that B-E slots can't replicate(I need atleast 2 tilesets set to A5 for my town map, that I can't set to B-E, because I need B-E to layer over the tiles, not replace them for example)

edit: Oh ok.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

You're making your forest, setting each map to use tileset FOREST. Cool! You get to the last map and you want a big house on this map and you don't have room for your house left on your tilesheets. Well! Not cool. But wait! That map doesn't use anything from sheet E. Well, we're cool again.

Cool, unless you actually use most of the tiles making the new tiles unable to fit, especially that house... Or unless you hit 999 tilesets.


though I personally haven't yet experienced the need to use ALL tiles in the sheets

Technically that's true, but I don't think I recall anyone, ever using it that way(even though that should have been the natural outcome of going with Parallax mapping, after years, if not decades of xp with tile mapping)

I think it's pretty obvious that the problem is on how people use it, but ur still saying that the problem is Parallax mapping itself.

 

[aozgolo]

This article does have a lot of good advice, should be required reading I think for anyone wanting to release their own RPGM games.

My personal pet peeve, of which I'm sure some would disagree is making custom tilesets for the sake of making custom tilesets. Not everyone is a good pixel artist, and that's fine. I think if you can't make a nice looking map with the standard tilesets then that's a problem of your mapping skills not the tileset itself. I would rather see a really good story and interesting world built with standard tiles than an ugly flat looking map with no shading or depth to it or very basic MSPaint monsters. Of course this doesn't mean you have to necessarily use the RPGM Standard Tilesets, there's plenty of other free-to-use tilesets out there, but my main point is if you aren't an artist, you don't have to pretend to be just because someone says they don't like the default graphics. Focus on making a good game first, if it's good enough you can probably easily find someone willing to help you with the graphics.

 

[Ksi]

Parallax mapping has two reasons for existing: Prettier graphics and breaking the grid. If you're using a script (or hey, eventing can make 8-directional moving too, who knew?) that allows different moving in-game - say, 8 directions, pixel based or half-sized - then parallax mapping is your best friend. Especially for adventure games.

It can also be great for adding more details than the initial mapping allows. You want to break the three-layer restriction? This allows that. You can have over 100 layers if you desire. That is the benefit of parallaxing - and I say this as someone who much prefers to just edit my tiles and use events as a third layer. Personally I've only parallaxed once to create a dusting of snow over paths for a more realistic snow-bound city.

 

[Zoltor]

Parallax mapping has two reasons for existing: Prettier graphics and breaking the grid. If you're using a script (or hey, eventing can make 8-directional moving too, who knew?) that allows different moving in-game - say, 8 directions, pixel based or half-sized - then parallax mapping is your best friend. Especially for adventure games.

It can also be great for adding more details than the initial mapping allows. You want to break the three-layer restriction? This allows that. You can have over 100 layers if you desire. That is the benefit of parallaxing - and I say this as someone who much prefers to just edit my tiles and use events as a third layer. Personally I've only parallaxed once to create a dusting of snow over paths for a more realistic snow-bound city.

Yea, ok, thought do(not worth it imo, the loss is greater then the gain), however if you're making "pure" adventure games, yea It's a very viable option, as Adventure games aren't about complex mapping, and exploring on the scale that are in RPG(they'e about find a item to get pass obstacle)

Lol you do that too?  Yea I've been doing that as well, due to the joke that is the tileset limit(only 1 tileset for each A, and the B-Es don't layer, why doescn't C layer B, D layer C, ect).

 

[Kes]

@Zoltor

At the risk of continuing this derailment of the topic, I think that sometimes you are too quick to condemn something as an inherent fault of the engine when in fact it's because you haven't yet learnt how to do it.  For example, your complaint about the "joke" that is the tileset limit.  I do not claim to be an expert mapper, far from it, but see my post here: http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/topic/20006-game-map-screenshots-4/?p=221598  which was done entirely in the editor with one set of A tiles and no events.  I made autotiles for A3 for some of it, which greatly extends the possibilities and means that I was not reliant on A5 alone, and to help with the overlapping nature of a lot of what you see, I made B-E tiles with the overlapping already done.  Yes, it needs careful planning to work out exactly which tiles you are going to need, but far from impossible.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

yeah, I think so too, pretty obvious with his belief that parallax mapping is the problem in itself. when it's clear that the problems are on the side of those using it.

 

[Kes]

But back on topic.

A mega mistake (even if it isn't the #1 mistake) is failing to take constructive criticism.  There's a tricky balance to maintain.  Yes, you have your vision as the developer, and clearly you shouldn't be pushed off track by just any comment/critique; but at the same time if several people are saying to you that X doesn't work and you still ignore them (coz what do they know about anything?) it shouldn't be a big surprise if your game ends up being largely ignored.  I suppose the thing is on the one hand to have the humility to give constructive criticism serious thought and adapt as necessary, and on the other the belief in yourself which enables you to try and realize the game that you want to make.

 

[Bonkers]

But back on topic.

A mega mistake (even if it isn't the #1 mistake) is failing to take constructive criticism.  There's a tricky balance to maintain.  Yes, you have your vision as the developer, and clearly you shouldn't be pushed off track by just any comment/critique; but at the same time if several people are saying to you that X doesn't work and you still ignore them (coz what do they know about anything?) it shouldn't be a big surprise if your game ends up being largely ignored.  I suppose the thing is on the one hand to have the humility to give constructive criticism serious thought and adapt as necessary, and on the other the belief in yourself which enables you to try and realize the game that you want to make.

That's the difference between idea and execution.  If you were playing your own game, then it would work.  But it's a bunch of strangers playing the game.  People who can't see your mindset, have the same tools available you had at the time you played, or even realizing that they have different tastes.

Number 1 mistake I see in all the games I review and test?

Spoiler

Large file size (outside of RTP) content that isn't used.  I downloaded 400 megs once for a game that only used RTP elements.  Most of it was music that wasn't in a demo. People don't trim down file size and expect you to download the file each time they make a small update.  I stay away from those train wrecks.

Punishing Dialogue with pages of "...".  I am not criticizing ellipses or their use, but after 2 full pages of them per character, and counting 60+ all together in the course of 3 hours of play it's just sad not to see it in an animation bubble instead to cut down on windows.  

 

Another good idea is to turn the dark lord into a good guy (he wasn't really kidnapping the princess, they were lovers and they escaped together) and the hero was in truth the real villain all the time, although this detail is well hidden to the player until the end:

I sense bias in this one.  Like a certain villain is hoping for the girl >>

 

[Dalph]

And can we talk about the dumb endings and clichè storylines?

Personally I don't like forced happy endings, I mean come on WTF with these clichè fairy tales...this is ridiculous, you can do better than that. This doesn't mean that I prefer dramas over happy endings, it depends on the theme of the game, but it's the execution that matters the most. What I'm saying is that clichès are ok, but you have to use them well, and add also bit of imagination to create something original from them.

The classic clichè fairytale:

The hero saves the princess and the world from the dark lord and then they marry together at the end (I mean the hero and the princess, not the hero and the dark lord don't misunderstand me...XD).

Hey but at least with the unexpected gay-marriage ending "you will still avoid clichès" in someway and add an unexpected and stupid plot twist! Ok, that's a silly example but it's just for giving an idea on how to turn things in your favour.

Another good idea is to turn the dark lord into a good guy (he wasn't really kidnapping the princess, they were lovers and they escaped together) and the hero was in truth the real villain all the time, although this detail is well hidden to the player until the end:

Spoiler

Essentially something awesome like the game Braid.

See how epic and interesting the last one sounds?

It's just a matter of imagination at the end, I see the same things over and over in modern games...and I'm tired, too tired.

 

[RaZzi]

Nice list. I'll be sure my game doesn't make mistakes!


Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk

 

[Plainview]

In the end, Parallax Mapping is just personal preference on the creator's part and takes some planning before hand to create beautiful maps that retain their intended functionality. If a map made via Parallax Mapping was bad, it's the fault of the creator not planning ahead of time, not Parallax Mapping itself.

 

[Dalph]

I sense bias in this one.  Like a certain villain is hoping for the girl >>

It's just a twisted view of reality in truth, the message of that plot clearly wants to say: appearances are deceiving or nothing is what it seems.

 

[Plainview]

Also, (forgive me for derailing the original topping) my personal pet peeve are RPG Maker games based on existing franchises (Like "Final Fantasy: Insert Other Titl Here"). I might take some heat for this, but it always bugged me. While it might be the creator's way of paying an homage to a series that they loved and may have even got them into Maker, it comes off as riding off the coat tails of a popular franchise. It takes whatever originality your game may have had and sends it plummeting like a stone. Not that I wouldn't play the game for it's quality, but it makes me think twice about playing it. Again however, that's just me.

 

[kerbonklin]

I totally agree with you Plainview. Whenever I see an RM game titled "Insert Franchise Name - blahblah", the firs thing that comes to my mind is "This is probably going to be horrible"

It just gives me so many doubts.

 

[Cozzer]

I don't know, plot twists like "the villain was the hero all along" have to be done extremely well, or they can create something that is way, way worse than a standard story.

Braid has it somehow easy, since it's a platformer with a minimal plot. Doing the same thing in an RPG... how could you make the hero's and the villain's actions consistent with the plot twist without making it predictable?
Maybe it would work better for a sort-of-parody game where it's evident that the main character is a villain but the plot still treats him like an hero.

 

[Dalph]

I don't know, plot twists like "the villain was the hero all along" have to be done extremely well, or they can create something that is way, way worse than a standard story.

Braid has it somehow easy, since it's a platformer with a minimal plot. Doing the same thing in an RPG... how could you make the hero's and the villain's actions consistent with the plot twist without making it predictable?

Maybe it would work better for a sort-of-parody game where it's evident that the main character is a villain but the plot still treats him like an hero.

Braid's story is far more complex and intriguing than we can imagine, even if at the start you don't know basically nothing of the game, towards the end everything makes sense (if you can get the message that the game gives).

Although the ending is a bit ambiguous and open to interpretation, that's why I love that game.

The answer to your question is simple, and also hidden in the words: disguise and\or acting.

A villain can simply impersonate an hero during the story to trick everyone until he fulfils his purpose, or he can really be an hero all the time (but he secretly changed his mind without saying it), and turns out to be evil at the end of the game...in the right situation.

If you think about it, there is no good or evil at all, just different points of view.