What are the #1 mistakes that RPG Maker games make?

Dalph

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Since when long cutscenes are a mistake in Rpg games? I hope your joking here guys...this doesn't make sense.

And don't touch Xenogears or Xenosaga (and any other game that starts with the word "Xeno") or I'm gonna get angry. XD

You can't create memorable cutscenes in just 2 pathetic minutes. 
 

Mr. Detective

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You can't create memorable cutscenes in just 2 pathetic minutes. 
Um, actually you can. Just throw in something like "All your base are belong to us!" or "You were almost a Jill-sandwich!". :D
 

Diretooth

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Here's a small list of stuff I don't like, and for some of the things, I offer some insight on how to improve from these, making them less irksome and more enjoyable.

1. As someone else mentioned before, battles that you win, but the scene afterward it shows you actually lost. If I want a 'But thou must' scenario where you lose in some way, then I will at least have the characters (and the player) have a moment of victory, maybe even gain something useful, even if they didn't get the plot coupon.

2. Unlooped loopable music. Not music that could not be looped due to the structure of the music, but music that could be looped well enough by messing around with Audacity. I draw the line of tolerance just after looped music with a slight skip. That is justifiable due to inexperience or the music sample not having a corroborating note or beat. If your final boss has, for example, 'Roar of the Departed' from Lost Odyssey and it's not looped, the exciting music will suddenly be interrupted by a few minutes of operatic singing that ruins the mood. (That is an extreme example, but there are people who would be inexperienced enough to do it.)

3. Wrong use... of ellipses... is important...

As I just demonstrated right there, awkward timing in pauses can cause a form of irritation that is as caustic to the mind as it is to the enjoyment of the game. To those who use ellipses, remember to read the line out so that it sounds natural. This will segue into 4. Bad Writing, and I will speak of both at the same time.

When writing, dialogue is very important. The characters must sound realistic, unless you are not really trying and/or are writing the base plot for later revision. Reading out loud the dialogue, or acting it out, helps immensely to prevent dull writing. Punctuation is also a must, as it can convey feeling. A simple comma for a short pause, such as the pause before 'such', prevents the player from thinking everything is one long fast-spoken sentence. Ellipses... They can be used to trail off or to indicate careful consideration of words spoken. I will provide an example:

"Maria... I... I don't like this..." This is overuse of ellipses.

"Maria, I... I don't like this." This is proper, the comma gives the right amount of pause, the pause after 'I' suggests hesitation, and the period at the end is proper, giving the sentence finality that the previous did not give.

But, I must digress, else I will turn this into a long lecture on proper sentence structure.

5. Badly used cliches. Cliches are not inherently bad. You can make an entire game with just cliches and have it be enjoyable, if it is done right. However, using cliches just so you can make a story and say, "I made a story, so I am automatically an awesome writer/game designer/et cetera!" does not work well.

6. Gratuitous tropes and obvious/surprise twists. There are tropes that are prevalent in many works, and knowing them can be beneficial. But when you're trying to incorporate every trope under the sun, and the game is not the more enjoyable for it, then you've failed, unless it was your intention to fail. Tropes are tools and are not bad, but being trope overdosed is.

The same goes for twists. Twists in a story are _____ hard. You have to lay out a lot of subtle foreshadowing and make sure that the player can notice them, but without anything blatant. Say you have a character named George. George is the designated hero and is trying to stop Emperor Evil. If you are skilled enough, you can write the story so that some similarities between the character is noted, so that when the twist comes, George learns that he is the son of Emperor Evil.

Now, this example has a spoiler for Bioshock 1. If you have not played it, then I strongly advise you to skip to the next paragraph.

In Bioshock, you are able to gather some audio diaries that, initially, don't seem to do much except build the world of the game. However, the diaries, in conjunction with dialogue with a character named Atlas, hint toward the game's twist, which is a double whammy. That you are the son of Andrew Ryan, the game's big bad, and the mind-controlled puppet of Atlas, who turns out to be Frank Fontaine, and was ultimately meant to kill Andrew Ryan.

This is an excellent example of a twist.

But, when you're able to see a twist in-game from a mile away, or there is no foreshadowing whatsoever, then it doesn't work.

7. Blatant padding. Such as, multiple fetch quests that expand the play time of the game to long hours, luck based missions that require save-scumming and have no alternative way to beat the mission. Things such as these are abhorrent and are better left elsewhere. However, if you can make these enjoyable and fun, then you are closer to being awesome than most people.

8. Escort missions. These are the absolute worst, but can be done properly. You are given a character and are expected to keep them alive, no matter the cost. If they die, you have to start over from the last save. Two RPG examples of escort missions that are tolerable, if not downright fun, are the Banon EM, and the Liem EM from Final Fantasy 6 and Terranigma, respectively.

In FF6, Banon is given a skill that heals the entire party, but if he dies, it's game over. This is tolerable, even during the Ultros battle, because the skill is free to use, and if you didn't run from every encounter, the battle shouldn't be too difficult.

In Terranigma, you must rescue a lion cub named Liem from a deadly trial. The little cub views it all as a race between him and you, he runs ahead, but you often catch up to him and help him through some simple and short mazes and protect him from weak monsters. During this, you have 'Willful Lion' playing in the background, with is just awesome. At the end, you face a boss you eventually cannot beat and are trapped on a ledge far below the boss. Liem, in turn, fights the boss by himself and saves you.

If you want an EM in your game, make sure it's not frustrating, strive for fun and awesome.

That's about it, for now.
 

amerk

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8. Escort missions. These are the absolute worst, but can be done properly. You are given a character and are expected to keep them alive, no matter the cost. If they die, you have to start over from the last save. Two RPG examples of escort missions that are tolerable, if not downright fun, are the Banon EM, and the Liem EM from Final Fantasy 6 and Terranigma, respectively.

In FF6, Banon is given a skill that heals the entire party, but if he dies, it's game over. This is tolerable, even during the Ultros battle, because the skill is free to use, and if you didn't run from every encounter, the battle shouldn't be too difficult.

In Terranigma, you must rescue a lion cub named Liem from a deadly trial. The little cub views it all as a race between him and you, he runs ahead, but you often catch up to him and help him through some simple and short mazes and protect him from weak monsters. During this, you have 'Willful Lion' playing in the background, with is just awesome. At the end, you face a boss you eventually cannot beat and are trapped on a ledge far below the boss. Liem, in turn, fights the boss by himself and saves you.

If you want an EM in your game, make sure it's not frustrating, strive for fun and awesome.

That's about it, for now.
I hated Crimson Sea for this, where you had to escort the President through the area of mutons. Not only do you have to keep him alive, he's such a wuss and will barely move unless you go behind him and push him.
 

GammaVector

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My biggest pet peeve is the default battle system.  Ugh, I hate to see it!  It's boring and repetitive and I just want the battle to end as soon as it starts.

Another thing is huge maps.  Especially on world maps.  This isn't Skyrim.  We can't turn our heads and look around to see where we're heading.  Huge maps are just disorienting, because I'm always fearful that I'm going the wrong way, or that I'll get lost if I explore. 

The only way it works is if you have interesting, varied terrain with easily identifiable landmarks, and give me very clear directions to the next town.  Telling me to head south is useless.  Telling me to follow the south road until I come to the lake, then go around, southwest through the forest, and if I hit the river I've gone too far and need to follow it back east...That works.

And for the love of Ralph, if you're going to make a huge world map, put your towns near easy to find landmarks!  Put it by a river, by the coast, on a lakeshore, basically anywhere but in the middle of a field or forest.  And use roadsigns!  I hate getting lost in RPG Maker games.  Again, I can't move the camera to orient myself.  Remember that!
 

Mr. Detective

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Hm... I might be alone in this, but what about amateur games with voice acting? I don't mean borrowed voice clips from other professional games, but the creators' own voice acting. They get credits for efforts, but many of them sound really awkward and unsuitable for the characters. :unsure:

My biggest pet peeve is the default battle system.
I heard this many times already. Does this means you want a side-view battle system?

Unlooped loopable music. Not music that could not be looped due to the structure of the music, but music that could be looped well enough by messing around with Audacity. I draw the line of tolerance just after looped music with a slight skip. That is justifiable due to inexperience or the music sample not having a corroborating note or beat. If your final boss has, for example, 'Roar of the Departed' from Lost Odyssey and it's not looped, the exciting music will suddenly be interrupted by a few minutes of operatic singing that ruins the mood. (That is an extreme example, but there are people who would be inexperienced enough to do it.)
I can't figure out how to loop the music properly. Bummer.

- Grammar mistakes (as a second language English user, I made a lot awkward usage myself)
You're not the only one. In the U.S., there many native speakers out there who still spell "you're" as "your", "must have" as "must of", "won't" as "want", or "where" as "were", ect. I blame the ******ed tenured teachers and the crappy American school system for this.
 
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Diretooth

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@Detective: I'm fairly decent at looping music, though the YT video that taught me how to do it seems to elude me for now. If I find it, I could share it.
 

Demiqas

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Since when long cutscenes are a mistake in Rpg games? I hope your joking here guys...this doesn't make sense.
Because when I download an RPG I expect to be playing it, not watching cut scenes 2/3rd part of the game.
 

Clord

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Portraits which were not originally made for the said characters. I mean cases like when someone uses Corpse Party game's portraits and pretend that those are not the same characters.


Barren maps with barren hallways and stuff like that after my standards went up even for my own mapping. Have some variation even if it means changing some floor tiles.


Party filled with RTP looking characters, come on.


Excessively hard combat in the beginning, some of the better games are even guilty for that at times. Game should become progressively harder and not easier expect in cases where it makes sense.


Rock pushing puzzles that are not even hard but many authors like to include them anyway. If you insist to have them, make them rather something like side thing for bonus loot and make them a bit harder.


Games that try to take themselves too seriously but then fails to present that well. If your game is comedic, just accept it and don't pretend it to be something else.


Games that are considered good because the author of said game is popular. A lot of these games are genuinely good but there has been some fan games for Youtube personalities that are only popular because said Youtuber makes video of it.
 
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Dalph

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Because when I download an RPG I expect to be playing it, not watching cut scenes 2/3rd part of the game.
What do you pretend? A JRPG without cutscenes? Play FPS or Racing games if you don't like cutscenes. 

Remember also that if you dislike them then you dislike good storylines too (yes, because you can't make good storylines without a lot of cutscenes).
 
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TheRiotInside

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Remember also that if you dislike them then you dislike good storylines too (yes, because you can't make good storylines without a lot of cutscenes).
You can't create memorable cutscenes in just 2 pathetic minutes. 
I am not against games with long cutscenes (I played through and thoroughly enjoyed the Xenosaga series) but I have to say that these two statements are very broad generalizations, and not really fair. I'm not going to get into a big hot mess diving into all of the details and reasons behind what I'm saying, just that you're painting this topic with a very broad brush.
 

Dalph

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I am not against games with long cutscenes (I played through and thoroughly enjoyed the Xenosaga series) but I have to say that these two statements are very broad generalizations, and not really fair. I'm not going to get into a big hot mess diving into all of the details and reasons behind what I'm saying, just that you're painting this topic with a very broad brush.
You're certainly entitled to your own opinion, but personally I have to disagree.

No I'm not generalizing...this is just what I think, cutscenes are a must in Rpg games.

Now please, give me some good examples of Rpg games without cutscenes (or with only a few of them) and truly memorable storylines, and maybe I will understand your point.
 
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TheRiotInside

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You specifically said that if you don't like long/"a lot of" cutscenes than you don't like good storylines, which I really hope I don't have to explain why that's incorrect.
 
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Arkecia

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I'm a dialogue person, one of the few "Tell and Show" type of person who loves exposition and characters just being themselves without forwarding the main plot. To me the plot can be about obtaining crystals, but I place about 80% of my love of a story based on the characters themselves. Characters make a story for me, and even though you can have charming characters without much dialogue, like I said, I'm a dialogue person.

As for the things I actually have been seeing while playing RM Games that I personally don't like so much:

- Text that takes too long to move across the screen; there are certain games where I could press enter once a second for about 5-7 times before it'd actually show the remaining text in the message box. Multiple times in one event. That's uncool.

- Running stamina: unless the run speed has been upgraded dramatically to make the character actually feel like they are running + a faster normal walk speed on par with XP, it will be hard for me to continue it. I won't just quit a game because of that, but I probably won't enjoy myself much.

- Paralyze/Stun at the beginning of the game, especially if the player is alone during that time. In my own game, none of my major status effects prohibit the character from acting; it's for a good reason.
 

Makio-Kuta

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I think when it comes down to long or short cutscenes it is hard to quantify what is 'too long.' I don't mind games with long cutscenes so long as the cutscene is still bringing something new to the plate. A cutscene should be as long as it needs to be, whether that is 2 minutes or 10, as long as it is remaining fresh through the whole thing it's fine to me. Things start to drag when the cutscene is repetitively harping on the same subject. If it takes the game 10minutes to tell me one thing and one thing only, that's when it becomes a problem. If it takes it ten minutes to tell me several things related to the plot and characters then that is cool in my books.

I've played games that stop to pop up dialogue several times in a row to tell be the same thing. That is too much. That is tedious and frustrating and becomes something I would classify as a mistake.
 

Cozzer

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Well, the point is, there are a lot of ways to pace a story and not everybody likes the same kinds of pacing.

 

For example, a lot of Japanese visual novels have a terribly slow pacing and I can't stand them. I know people who love them and wouldn't love them as much if they skipped more details.

On the other hand, I know a person who doesn't like series I like because she says they're "too slow" while I find they have a very good pacing.

 

So, nobody will ever find the "perfect" pacing. A cutscene can be ruined both by being too slow (so you get tired of it) or too fast (so there's no tension when things actually happen).

You have to set a pace you like, and follow basic rules (create tension at the beginning and discharge it during climaxes, give more time and space to more important events or informations, repeat several times the most important bits of information that are needed to understand the story...).

 

If I really had to find a problem that a lot of RM cutsenes have, rather than length I'd say cutscenes in which characters just stand still and talk.

Even a short cutscene can become boring that way, expecially if you don't use faces with different expressions.

If you have a cutscene in which nothing really happens, you should at least make characters move around, do minor things while they're talking, take a step backwards when they're surprised, anything. It's not easy to express "body language" with sprites (expecially if you don't have the time or the skill to edit them in various positions), but it's important to try.
 

Diretooth

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Cozzer raised an interesting point. Having cutscenes with little to no movement, or indication of emotion, unless with justification, can severely impact the cutscene. I usually remedy this by using the generator for Ace to create expressions for the characters, and generally putting some action in the scenes. (Using a battle animation and having a character jump out of the way is a decent way to create action)
 

Seacliff

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You know, after reading this... I'm afraid to release my game. Seriously though:

I try to keep my opening cutscenes roughly five minutes at most, but I agree that it's hard to have a deep story without at least one fairly long cutscene.

Biggest problem for me? Junk load of scripts that can be easily done with eventing, now I not as senior as those 2000/2003 users, but XP is still somewhat senior if you ask me, only use scripts for things that are hard.impossible with eventing (ex. Special Title, Menu changes, different battle system, lighting, and maybe for some complex mini games.)

Rips with stray pixels.

The default window is starting to bug me, you can at least change the color of it.

But, hey, you can't please everybody with one game  ;)
 

Caustic

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Preferably, I'd rather have the player explore the world than sit through a ten-minute-plus cutscene. Especially when nothing is happening.

Perhaps not so much long cutscenes, but ones with either little to nothing happening, or ones that have no reason to exist ( character enters room, blabs, END SCENE ). And I will beat on the Xeno's as much as I damn well please, because they display perfect examples of this ire. Though I can't fault the team behind Saga too much for the all-infamous Disk 2 ( so I'll blame FF8 instead =D ), they could have done more. Especially if they hadn't spent so much time on the friggin' Kislev levels... ugh, the very definition of a boring town...

And in all honestly, I still like both those games (and series). And the more recent Xenoblade as well.

Doesn't mean I can't still beat it with the critic stick, though :p

What really gets on my tits - which so happens to be especially prevalent in JRPGs -  is when the game treats its audience like they're too stupid to figure stuff out for themselves. Aka - the "regurgitate what we just learned about a dozen times, and then a few more for good measure" tactic. It's pointless, time-wasting, and the very definition of "we had more money than we knew what to do with, so we blew it on cocaine and LSD these scenes". Honestly, if one were to cut out the number of scenes where the main party redescribes what they literally learned five minutes ago in Persona 4, the game would shave off 10 hours of time, easily. And I like that game for the most part; it wouldn't take up space on my shelf if I didn't.

Now imagine how much I'll rant on a game that I don't like BD
 
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