What are the advantages of RM2k3?

[Archeia]

The only reason I would recommend Rm2k3 is because I think it fosters creativity and practicing logic to implement things in anything remotely related to RPG Maker.

 

[Sieginder Niederlage]

Wait a second. If you can create things that are practically scripts just by eventing in RM2k3, does that mean you could do the same in the new RMs?
 

 

[Iavra]

Not really. RM2k3's variable system allows for pointers (referencing a variable by the value of another variable). VX Ace can't do that.

 

[Erika Fuzzbottom]

Personally, I think the modern PC RPGMs actually are capable of creating some amazing stuff with just the point-and-click options. Unfortunately, I can't put my money where my mouth is, 'cause the only thing I created on them was an unfinished joke game on XP.  Maybe they don't have pointers, but how many people would even know how to properly use those, anyway?  (I sure wouldn't.)

 

[Galenmereth]

Having fiddled a bit with the eventing system in 2k3 over the weekend for fun, I can verify that it is indeed possible to do a lot more with just events -- and with good performance too! -- in 2k3 over, say, Ace. I'm going to play around with this in the future, as I find it a refreshing challenge. The best part is that there's pros and cons to the differences between the newer RM's and 2k3, making it entirely viable to use both.

 

[MikePjr]

I animated monsters. Just took a bit of creative thinking and eventing. ^.^ I used battle animations~

When you're dealing with 8-bit games, you don't really need more colors. ;p

That said, it's still a great little engine.

16-bit not 8-bit.

And i just find it easier when making tilesets(chipsets) to have access to more colors as i tend to use a lot of shading and more.

 

[BloodletterQ]

The only reason I'm sticking with it is because I want the retro feel. Heck, I can't find any SNES-like tilesets for RMVXA. No matter how you try to retro-fy these engines, there's just something off. The font can be changed but I just can't remove the smoothness in certain things like the fading windows. Until I can be convinced that I can completely give off a SNES feel in Ace including the little things and good tilesets, I'm going to have to stick with RM2K3.

 

[Sharm]

Really?  Not even Pixel Myth looks SNES enough?  Drat.  I know what you mean though, Ace just doesn't have that feel.

 

[Scythuz]

I think the main advantage to it is having access to the included resources.  From what I've used of it so far and what I've seen of the RTP tilesets, the look isn't really all that SNES like.  In my opinion, it's more like Gameboy Advance or even slightly better Gameboy Colour graphics?  .

Really?  Not even Pixel Myth looks SNES enough?  Drat.  I know what you mean though, Ace just doesn't have that feel.

It's closer to SNES than most but it's still slightly more modern-looking I'd say.  Personally I prefer it the way it is though, I prefer Sharm-style over Snes-style

 

[BloodletterQ]

Thanks for telling me about Pixel Myth but even so, it looks pretty vibrant as much as there's the pixel art aspect. I found a really awesome tileset for 2003 anyway on some Japanese site and I just doubt I'll get a retro feel with RMVXA no matter how hard I try. The pixel look in RMVXA actually makes it look off imo.

 

[amerk]

Wait a second. If you can create things that are practically scripts just by eventing in RM2k3, does that mean you could do the same in the new RMs?

I'd say it depends. There are some things you can do out of the gate with 2K3 that were removed by default with the newer makers, and a lot of those may require scripts to add back in. However, the experience you gain from using the event system in the older (non-script) makers can carry over to newer makers. You may not be able to replicate some events exactly the same way in the newer makers, but you will at least gain confidence in relying more on events and thinking creatively than automatically resorting to a script, and you may even find some better work arounds using events in the newer makers as a result.

 

[Tuomo L]

There's really no advantages at all, it's 12 year old tool so of course Ace is better. The only true advantage you may find out for fun is the RTP which you can then make use in your RPG maker Ace game and going in through strange, old worlds. 

 

[eigwayne]

The biggest advantage to RM2K3 is already stated: the built-in sideview battle system. The difference in the eventing system is also a big thing (I remember feeling limited when I switched to newer makers, and I was a novice at best). And it is far easier to learn how to pixel art when you only need to fill a small area. RM2K3 is going to be best for people who are making NES and SNES style games, or how are learning to create pixel art, unless they want to test themselves by pushing the limits of the maker. 2003's value to someone will depend on those factors.

There's also a huge nostalgia factor for many people. You can't put a value on that since it's so personal.

 

[Galenmereth]

There's really no advantages at all, it's 12 year old tool so of course Ace is better. The only true advantage you may find out for fun is the RTP which you can then make use in your RPG maker Ace game and going in through strange, old worlds. 

If you enjoy eventing over scripting, 2k3 really does have an advantage over Ace. Both in performance and features.

 

[sabao]

I liked RM2k-2k3. This may be tinged a bit by nostalgia and foggy memory, but I've always found the older generation had a unique charm that the newer, technically superior versions don't. Contrary to what some may believe, I feel 2k3 brought ingenuity out of a lot more in the community than the current generation RM has. There were relatively less tools at people's disposal, sure, but that just meant people had to get crafty and get the most out of what they did have.

No RGSS meant having to get inventive with events to create a CMS, CBS or some cool mini game or another. Props to our very talented community of scripters out there of course, but I'm seeing more and more people sitting on their butts these days asking for features to be made for them. Likewise, the lower resolutions made spriting a little more approachable for beginners. Production was simpler and faster, and while it's generally frowned upon now, a vast library of ripped/edited graphics made for more different-looking games.

That said, those were good times. Not really sure how well 2k3 would hold up for me now, but I'll probably pick it up at some point if only because I feel I owe Enterbrain money for all the years I've had and used the fan translated builds of 2k and 2k3.

 

[orochii]

I sincerely think that the two reasons people had been giving are the main advantages. The integrated sideview battle system, which not only is a feature, but a set of features, including the hero battle animations tab, the battle layouts... all these things combined inside the database are a commodity. VXAce has great sideview battle engines, but I feel that being integrated with the editor itself is a plus.

RM2k3 has no scripting, which is both a con and a plus. It's a plus, because compiled code is always faster. It's a con because... well you know, scripts help a lot when customizing your game. I know from first hand how messy it is to make inventory screens by eventing on RM2k3 (using the so called "pointers").

I know too that "bad eventing" can cause LOTS of LAG on RM2k3 too. I still remember a few tricks to prevent that though...

By the way, using the script call boxes, like the one on conditional branches or the Script call command, has a huge amount of uses. Like pointers:

$game_variables[$game_variables[2]] == 0

 

[amerk]

RM2k3 has no scripting, which is both a con and a plus. It's a plus, because compiled code is always faster. It's a con because... well you know, scripts help a lot when customizing your game. I know from first hand how messy it is to make inventory screens by eventing on RM2k3 (using the so called "pointers").

I know too that "bad eventing" can cause LOTS of LAG on RM2k3 too. I still remember a few tricks to prevent that though...

Yes, but I think the "con" side of it can also be considered a plus to some degree. Sure, it's con that you may be limited to changing a lot of the way the program runs (some things can only be done with scripts) but even with messy eventing, it's a learning experience that can help people find alternatives and learn from their own mistakes, which is seldom the case from plug and play scripts. Plus, there's the added satisfaction when you create an event with your own hard work and it pays off.

 

[vergilkilla]

There is no question RPGMaker 2003 is a great deal less powerful than VX Ace, for example, but it does have some strengths.

My favorite are:

1. Default battle system is the preferred type for like... 90% of people trying to make/play JRPG games. The amount of time you have/need to spend creating your own from scratch or fiddling about with other's scripts to create this functionality is reduced heavily if RPG Maker 2003 already has pretty much what you want.This was the case with me. I have VX Ace and it is an amazing, robust, extensible tool. But no need to do all that battle engine work if what you want is in the box - so I have opted to use RPGMaker 2003 for my current project.

2. More obvious/better manipulation of tiling layers. 

3. The palette constraints are in some ways a weakness.... but in other ways, it sort of "forces" you into a SNES style, which is not always a bad thing.

4. Battle events are, to me, more directly intuitive to use.

5. If you are not a programmer and do not intend to become one, I figure the forum help/correspondence with people about VX Ace is probably pretty annoying in that the first and last suggestion is always to script.

I daylight as a programmer, so I don't have much of a problem with it, but after years of 2k3 development, it makes me shake my head to see people copy-pasting a bunch of scripts they don't understand to do things that are honestly very achievable/easy with Switches, Events, and Variables. Then their scripts that they don't understand break and after a couple of forum posts to no avail they give up on their game. 

 

[Andar]

..figure the forum help/correspondence with people about VX Ace is probably pretty annoying in that the first and last suggestion is always to script.

Not exactly - if you check where that suggestion comes from, you'll see that mostly people with medium knowledge level suggest scripts first.


The people who really know the engine always suggest trying events first, unless the idea is something where they know that it can't be made without scripts.


And the people who break up game development would probably have done the same no matter whether it was eventing or scripting. Not because what they want is too complex, but because they thought that they could reach their goals without any effort on their part...

 

[Erika Fuzzbottom]

So, I'm not entirely sure if this is a feature in the newer RPG Makers, but from what I've heard, it isn't:

Randomly generated dungeons.  And no, I don't mean a dungeon generator.  I mean a feature that makes a room randomly arrange itself every time you enter it.  It doesn't allow much for scenery, but if you have events on the map, the generator makes sure that no matter how it arranges itself, the player can get to every event.