What are the game mechanics have been tested successfully or failure?

Discussion in 'Game Mechanics Design' started by Kupotepo, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. Kupotepo

    Kupotepo Fantasy realist Veteran

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    Hello everyone here. I think it is easy to just ask people here of things you have been tested. We might the same idea and I just a directed question it is worked or not. I wanted to have my ideas become true in my game. However, it has limitations. I just won't hear from you. Some of us here is experienced users which found tip and tricks.
    Successful, I mean it works as you want it.

    I ask a general question, so people here have a room for a creative answer. It is very subjective is not the right or wrong answer.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
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  2. cabfe

    cabfe Cool Cat Veteran

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    Successful or failure, it is not always objective.
    For me, Quick Time Events and Save Points are failures, for example.
     
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  3. Archeia

    Archeia Level 99 Demi-fiend Staff Member Developer

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    Depends on what you are aiming for.
    Save points are great for conveying sense of dread and panic in horror games. So I consider that a complete success. Even if you have save everywhere, putting a save point is a good reminder for the player to save. Don't underestimate tunnel vision. A save point can also act as a healing spot if you put resource management to the bin.

    Quick time events can be a good problem solving mechanic but not the way a lot of modern games do it. The best example is Riviera: The Promised Land.
     
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  4. Kupotepo

    Kupotepo Fantasy realist Veteran

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    @cabfe, I mean you tell me about game mechanics, so I do not repeat the mistakes.
    @Archeia, I just ask your overall satisfaction of some of your game mechanics.

    Thank both of you for try to be helpful.
     
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  5. Archeia

    Archeia Level 99 Demi-fiend Staff Member Developer

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    I actually did tell you some of the game mechanics I implemented haha. However your question is vague. What's important is the INTENT of your game. The atmosphere and game feel you want to get across to the player. Otherwise, what we deem a success or failure is no help towards you.
     
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  6. Kupotepo

    Kupotepo Fantasy realist Veteran

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    @Archeia, sorry for trying extracting more information from you.
    My intention of my game is make it both educational and fun at the same times.
    Testing made me nervous.
     
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  7. BK-tdm

    BK-tdm Manga Maker Veteran

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    The thing is that this is a very subjective topic, some hate QTEs, some hate manual leveling stat distribution, some hate automatic leveling stat distribution, not everyone likes the same things.

    You can start with the classics hated by all: lootboxes, stamina system (max number of quests/missions/game sessions per time limit), fake difficulty, SNK bosses, not telling the player what your complex well-thought system is all about letting them to fend off for themselves...

    Mechanics saturation can be a problem too, one thing can be good if fleshed out but if you just pile up stuff because they're cool it will feel forced and half arsed (crafting+ stealth+ moral choices+ romance sidequests+ QTE+... you know? add it all! what can go wrong!?)

    The most important thing is what type of game you're aiming for, there are some things that dont match with some game types, if you make an horror game and suddendly the player is doing romance sidequests it will feel off, in the end it all depends on implementation, story, and overall gameplay if a certain mechanic fits in or not.

    All mechanics can be good if you implemment them right and the right ones for the gameplay you want to achieve, what im guessing you're actually after is "what mechanics in which games sucked, so i dont fall on their mistakes."

    There's a lot of youtube videos on "why games flopped" just look for things like "10 games that failed" or the like.
     
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  8. Archeia

    Archeia Level 99 Demi-fiend Staff Member Developer

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    Yeah, it's a good thing you told me that then. Cuz otherwise, my motto with my partner is to test an enemy and if it's beatable on normal playthrough, add +10 to stats to add maximum suffering to the player.

    I'm assuming educational game means you plan it to be casual ez mode.

    You might want to consider looking into autosaves with check points. This way, you can prevent the player from rolling back from bad decisions.

    Idk any of your game mechanics so I can't even give any advice on that.
     
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  9. Kupotepo

    Kupotepo Fantasy realist Veteran

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    @Archeia, I think you misunderstood. The testing means I have a test today in the college. Thank you for sticking by. I like testing in the game because it is dictated if I make a good enemy or not for a player.
     
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  10. Archeia

    Archeia Level 99 Demi-fiend Staff Member Developer

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    What test? It's better if you actually read some Game Design books instead rather than us making your homework for you if that's what you are saying. Otherwise, if you mean from a play testing standpoint then it has to be about the intent of the game rather than its individual core pieces.

    Gamasutra has a lot of good game design articles and the other is read The Art of Game Design: A Book of Lenses by Jesse Schell. Alternatively you could try watching Extra Credits (even tho I don't like most of their videos) just to get started on your game design flexing muscles.
     
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  11. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    I think what they want is to hear what we have tried and didn't get to work, as well as why. Others might find it works, but the information can help others still.

    Here's mine:
    I tried a side project for the 2015 IGMC (I ended up not entering it as I only had 3 days to work on it) where every stat was from 1 - 99, everyone started with 3's in everything, and at level up you got 1 point to spend on a stat. That's it. Damage for physical attacks was your attack stat * 10 * (1 - 0.01 * the enemy defense). Magical attacks were going to use the same idea with a different number than 10 used, depending on the cost of the spell.

    The pros: Made designing enemies easy. I could figure out the level of the enemy, and then from there figure out how many stat points they should have. Since everyone started with 3's I had 18 points at level 1, then + 1 per level above level 1. So if I wanted to make a level 12 enemy, I had 18 + (12 - 1) points to distribute between the 6 stats.

    The cons: Hard to implement the assigning the stat point without scripting. DEF and MDF was way too OP, and it turned into a player should just level those up fast and then no one would be able to hurt them. Was not able to figure out a good way to balance weapons and armor so they actually did something in this system. Giving players a reason to level up LUK was stumping me.

    If I tried it again: I would probably use a hard cap of 50 on where you can take stats to with a level up. I'd probably start weapons and armor at around 10 points, and increases from there would vary. In fact, I'd suggest anyone who wishes to use this system to go study Betrayal at Krondor and how it did armor, armor there was from 15 - 70 in the rating, and the rating was how much damage it blocked. You could probably base yours around that. And finally, to make LUK worthwhile you'd have to consider either coding a way to have it increase Critical Hit rate significantly with each point (1% boost is meaningless until you dump a lot of points), and/or have it increase status ailment application rates more than the default does.
     
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  12. Andar

    Andar Veteran Veteran

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    My answer to that (as I've written in my starting point tutorial) is:
    "A titanic list of features is the surest way to go Titanic (to the bottom of the ocean) with your project"

    As a lot of people already said you can't say that any game mechanic is successfull or not. You can't even say if it is working or not in a general way, because it always depends on the implementation on one side and the player expectations on the other.

    We can tell you a lot of things that will almost never work - like combining features that cannot combined (which is one of the main reasons all those titanic-feature-games fail).
    We cannot tell you of any single mechanic that will always be successfull - because there is no such mechanic at all.

    Let's just analyze the already mentioned quick-time-events.
    There are a lot of players (especially young players) who like them because they like to test their reactions.
    And there are even more players (especially older and more casual players) who absolutely hate them and consider them a way to ruin a game, because once they're in and the game is balanced to use them then someone who is slower for whatever reason (like age or simply that he wants to have fun after an exhaustic day on the job) is now unable to continue the game.
    And even those two cases assume that the QTE was correctly implemented with good balancing, if the game developer screwed up and made the QTE too difficult the game will be impossible to everyone, and if the mechanic isn't challenging the game will be boring to those who like QTE and still be hated by those who hate QTE.

    @Kupotepo here is some personal advice:
    A lot of the question you've asked in the last weeks or few months sound as if you are a new developer trying to get answers how to create a perfect game before putting in the work to create that game.
    That is not possible for a lot of reasons. There is no perfect answer, and the only thing that can help you find a good answer is experience in game development.

    Your first game project WILL BE idiotic scrap - everyones first project gets scrapped, and everyone will have put months of work into that idiotic result before it gets scrapped in disgust.
    But that time is not wasted because it gives you experience in doing things wrong, and that is the only way to learn how to decide what you really want.

    We all know this because we all have been there - and that is the biggest reason why we always suggest to take a month or two on a tutorial project to just learn the engine without any plans to finish that tutorial project. You will scrap that first tutorial project as idiotic after those two months - but if you use it as a learning project then you get the most out of that time, and without damaging your idea for your "dream game" by the disgust for your idiotic errors on the first try.
     
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  13. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    To piggyback a little off of @Andar 's post: When I started out I decided to just dive into my game that I wanted to make. Here is the timeline of how well that worked:

    June 6th, 2014: Started project.
    June 10th, 2014: Scrapped project, started over. Entered that version in the IGMC, got feedback from contestants.
    Sometime in July 2014: Scrapped project, started over
    Sometime in August 2014: Scrapped project, started over. Overhauled the skill system. Posted this version on here in October 2014 as a demo for feedback.
    November 2014: Scrapped project, started over.
    February 2015: Scrapped project, started over.
    January 2016: Finished the midboss of the game.
    August 2016: Game could be played from start to finish, as long as you didn't wander off my path too much.
    July 2018: Game entered Beta Testing. Working on fixing little bugs, UI improvement and minor graphical fixes.
    February or March 2019: Planned release month.

    The February 2015 version is the version I finished, though I did have to go back and add some scenes here and there as I skipped scenes I didn't know how to do at that point in time.

    Now, see how many times I scrapped that project. I count 1...2...3...4....5 times total. 5 times in 8 months Let that sink in for a moment. And in each case I used what I learned to improve the game.

    My suggestion is to do one of two things. Either make a game, with the understanding you will start it over a few times. I went in expecting to start it over at least 4 times due to my choice of doing it this way instead of via the tutorials (though I did use them to see how to do things in the game). The second choice is to make a tiny game, post it for feedback, and prepare for a lot of suggestions for how to improve as few people do well with their first game. And don't be hurt if you get a lot of negative criticism. I actually learned the most from the negative feedback my demo got in the end. Sure, if one or two say it, you may have to chalk it up to opinions. But if many say it, it might be worth investigating if that is indeed something you did wrong.

    But...by doing this you will learn some things in mechanics and what works too.

    Back to thread topic though...I think there is still a place for us to mention what we've tried and why it worked and didn't work in our game. Or a system used in another game that we liked. So I think it might be worthwhile to stick to that instead of just saying it varies or go read a design book. Instead, if we can focus on why it varies or why it worked (or didn't) it can help us all out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
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  14. Countyoungblood

    Countyoungblood Sleeping Dragon Veteran

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    rofl how frustrating. sorry to see how your thread went kupo.

    assuming you understand that the opinions you get here are indeed subjective and not in anyway absolute (which i would of thought would of been common sense..) and looking at your entire line..

    Id interpret this to mean you'd like your game to have everything but realize it cant and want to discuss popular mechanics you might include. I wont give you advice since you didnt ask for it but on the actual topic of mechanics i found to be successful myself (objectively dur)

    I really enjoy games with a lot of equipment synergy.. for example the diablo games. you could mix a and match different pieces and get very different results depending on your goals.. I once made a mage with such low cooldown and resource generating it literally exploded multiple times per second dealing damage to everything around it in a signifigant area.. it was a very delicate build that was only survivable because of a high def buff you'd have to maintain or be instantly killed when it fell off.

    of course turn based combat is not the same as how diablo plays but creating equipment that builds on other equipment to create cumulative affects into interesting extremes to customize the experience is very cool.
     
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  15. Kupotepo

    Kupotepo Fantasy realist Veteran

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    @Archeia, sorry for my wording. It is unrelated this discussion. In today, I have html, can, and javascript test, so I feel nervous about it. I am currently do not have a game design class, so I do not ask you to do my homework ha ha ha. However, thank you for your kindness.
     
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  16. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    Personally I have a lot of failures on designing most of things. I tried to design perk system, I tried to design atb, I tried to design skill level system, I tried armor scaling, I tried grid battle system, I tried to make something that were outside of RPG (Like shooter or Turn Based Strategy), and many things. Sometimes it just doesn't work or fit with the whole concept of my game. Sometimes a feature could be looks so cool but u didn't expect that balancing it will be troublesome later on. Sometimes I wonder why it exist in the first place if it serves no purpose. An recently, if you followed my status update, I tried to try what's so good about 16:9 resolution. Turned out when I asked why, I realized I didn't really need a wide screen to design my game. It only left me a burden to design a new battle screen bcz it was ugly, and I don't have the necessary skill to design battle menu.

    The only success story I have is the complete game I have (on my signature). It doesn't particularly great, neither my design choice is applicable for many design principles. In fact, I once brought up my project into a discussion, there was a quite controversial talk like "what if the players think of this and that, etc, etc". But my players was never mention those stuff, and still enjoyed the game regardless. As the dev, I could only guess why my players enjoyed them. You could have an awesome and many features as possible, but at the end of the day, if it doesn't satisfy your target players, you couldn't call it success.

    But here's the tip:
    Whenever you have an idea of a mechanic, battle system, or whatever. It's okay to create a GDD, notes, and such. But don't make it so writing notes take your time away. Keep notes as... notes. Go kick your ass and work on the game, use notes as reference, not a final note. You have design, now create a prototype. At least, make one stage to execute your idea. Feel it. Sometimes it looks cool on paper, but can actually feels different on implementation. An early awareness of this is important.

    For example, you want a crafting system, sure it looks cool. Then don't procrastinate further. Go to actually implement it. Create a stage where the crafting was important part. Then evaluate it yourself. Is it what you really want for the rest of the game? Can the game survive without it?
     
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  17. Kupotepo

    Kupotepo Fantasy realist Veteran

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    @BK-tdm, thank you for mechanics ideas. I will try your ideas and learn more. That is a held objective of this thread to learn from other. Of course, my wording is weird because I write on the phone which can be misinterpreted by some here sorry for that.
    @bgillisp, thank you thank you thank you for finally understanding and explain my question for others here. I do not ask to make a perfect game.
    However, I strive to make it better. Some people here interpret as I ask the idiotic or moronic question. However, that people forget that they know something; It does not mean everyone here knows that piece of knowledge. Every responds if it does not benefit me, it will somehow benefit others who read this thread.
    @Andar, thank you for helping with the RPG maker mv button earlier. I want everything to be in my game, it does not mean it will fit in my game. However, it might be helpful to my future project. I am fully aware of that. Successful, I mean it works as you want it. I am aware that you have to make a bad game before it becomes a good game. However, in RPG maker it is a million thing I can do, I am aware. I hope this thread will be sorted what is a bad idea which has a high chance of not end up well. It is a subjective experience which it is useful than an empty page on this thread for sure.

    Thank you for being my teacher; I always learn new information for you.
    @Countyoungblood, I try my best to communicate with others. It is good that they as me questions, so I can retry to make a clear communication between me and other people.
    I just try to ask what your mechanics you did that you would like to share here so I can try to learn and generate game machine at the same. I need to do it to see the result, right?
    Thank you for contributing.
    @TheoAllen, it is great that you are a javascript coder. I aware that finished your game is a success. However, I need to continue to experiment with new ideas. It is not about the game, I believe it is about learning more so I can make a better game. I don't think me or anyone here is procrastinating because many people here who said they can do the game right now because they have outside responsibilities. Don't you think all of here love to make a game?

    Thank you for informing me and other by the way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
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  18. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    You mean, RGSS coder. And you were sounding like I'm done learning, no, that game might be success, but will I make a game like that again? well no, so I continue to learn as well.

    Not all people here. Some people only use RM for plugin devs and actually never interested in make game. But developing a plugin is already satisfying for them. I know, I used to be one of those people. I used to enjoy creating features / script, but my view of everything changed after I finished a game. That my feature I came up with might not usable, and might feels awkward in actual game implementation. So whenever I heard "This can do a lot of things like abcd ..." I asked back "How it will benefit to game dev? what kind of game design that requires such feature?"
     
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  19. Kupotepo

    Kupotepo Fantasy realist Veteran

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    @TheoAllen, you are right. I forget that other RPG maker used RGSS coding. Good, we agree that learn it will always continue.
    That is an interesting perspective which you are pointing out; I thought people here make plugins for the RPG game for themselves, but I do not know some didn't use it for themselves. You see I learn new things from you. Thank you for keeping me educated.
     
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