What are you tired of seeing in RPG Maker games?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ain, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. Black Pagan

    Black Pagan Veteran Veteran

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    A Battle System without Balanced Combat and Custom Skills. Most of the RPG Maker MV Games i have played were either Too Easy or Too Hard. Also I'm tired of seeing Default Skills being used.
     
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  2. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    Ooh! I have one I completely forgot, and it's a big one:
    • Fancy fonts used for commonly-read text, such as dialog, damage popups, etc. Please do not do this ever.
    It's important to note that, just because a company folds, that doesn't mean all of their IP is magically up for grabs/in limbo/whatever. It's entirely possible (and apparently fairly common) for those rights to be handed off to someone else, by sale or otherwise. I'd err on the side of caution and not use any of those tracks for anything other than placeholders, at least in commercial games.
     
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  3. Romanticist

    Romanticist Veteran Veteran

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    Yikes, after skimming through this thread, it seems I have a lot of changing to do... Can't please everyone though.
    Sadly, I might actually get rid of my battle system altogether, because I do not have confidence that I can make it interesting. My story has action in it though so it might be awkward to only have action cutscenes with no gameplay, but that's why I should learn to code in another engine I suppose :/

    Honestly, I want a game with ONLY human characters. I seriously hate anthropomorphic characters, whether they're cutesy or just plain uncanny.
    Well, I'm okay with other species when it comes to enemies (of course, because you need monsters... probably), or maybe if you implement it in a cool way, but the amount of fantasy stories with different animal "races" is offputting to me. I'd literally prefer having a dog sidekick that only barks and never talks to a walking talking creepy dog/cat/lizard/whatever guy. Sorry if I offend any furries :p
    ...Let me actually take back a little bit of what I said. Anthropomorphic characters or talking animals can be fine... in a game that isn't meant to be taken completely seriously. Ie. a comedy game, or a game that isn't "gritty" or "edgy". But if a game is meant to be serious, then I only want human characters (or human-variants, like elves and dwarves or whatnot -- though those are overused to death as many in this thread have mentioned).
    I might be hated for saying something like this, but FF games or Tales games would be so much better without talking animals and cute 'mascot' characters. Like FF7, I cannot take the story seriously with a talking wolf character and a cat... thing.

    Other things I'm sick of... Hmm...
    I'm tired of walking-simulator psychological/surreal horror games (with only gameplay element being some inane puzzle).
    I'm absolutely sick of default sound effects. This is one of the easiest things to change but hardly anyone ever does it.

    Welp, that's actually all I can think of off the top of my head. I have never actually gotten far into a non-horror or non-surreal RPG Maker game so I can't get into specifics about, well, role playing games made in RPG Maker :rswt They've never been able to hold my interest. So that probably says something. (And maybe that's why I'm sick of horror games lmao). Actually I have played Lisa and Space Funeral. And I'm sure I'm forgetting others. But, those are quite... unique.

    Perhaps it's because the majority of turn based RPGs I have played have been sideview battles systems, but I actually prefer front-view battles at this point too. I'm sure they are overused to death by amateur RPG Maker games but, hey, if a game has a great story and setting, then front view battles probably won't turn me off. Look at Lisa for a front-view system done well. (Though it had side-view elements as well, during attack animations).
    I'm starting to reconsider removing battles from my game... I'll see if I can make my front-view battles engaging :kaopride:
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
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  4. Juanita Star

    Juanita Star Witch of compilations. Veteran

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    -Human characters with the same white skin color.
    -Pretty female characters with no deep background except being the love interest.
    -Female characters always being the mage or wathever magical being is important for the plot.
     
  5. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    I can't possibly agree with these more. Add to that, "female characters who are specifically the designated healer/supporting character."
     
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  6. HexMozart88

    HexMozart88 The Master of Random Garbage Veteran

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    Heheh... well then. I don't like to do complete furries, but I do have an entire race with some form of animal attribute, which... gets pretty dark, especially since they
    try to be as close to humans as possible and do really horrible things to more animalistic beings.
    But I see what you mean. That's actually kind of the reason why I wanted to make it dark in the first place. I'm kind of sick of seeing nothing but "Nyaaaahhhhhh" everywhere.
     
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  7. Romanticist

    Romanticist Veteran Veteran

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    I didn't make it very clear (I'm not good at being concise) but yeah, anthropomorphism doesn't bother me when used in a horror-inducing way. The idea of an animal who walks and talks like a human is pretty scary on a base, instinctual level.
    Though it seems like the dark element in your story is more of a plot twist. I should also make it clear that anthropomorphic characters don't turn me off of a game right away; I love the Elder Scrolls series, for example, and they have Khajiits and Argonians (cat and lizard people, respectively). So yeah, if it is utilized right, I suppose it is fine.
    In all honesty though, I prefer no anthropomorphic animals in a fantasy setting but again, I can tolerate it haha. This might be slightly hypocritical considering I have animal-people in my game... but it is due to horrific mass human experimentation and splicing of genes, so I'm still falling into that "horror" exception of mine :p
     
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  8. BCj

    BCj Veteran Veteran

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    - RTP
    - Huuuuge houses with truckloads of empty spaces
    - Default menu stuff, or Moghunter non-editted
    - Basically anything default.. SFX/Music and so on.

    I can't help it, even if a game sounds amazing, I can't deal with it if it has RTP graphics..
     
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  9. Raizen

    Raizen Veteran Veteran

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    That thread that never dies haha, but its a good one :yhappy:

    Its a delicate question, because as someone that plays a small amount of actual time and being in the RPG Maker Community, I will always want to actually play RPG Maker games that do not look like are RPG Maker games.
    This would mean non-RTP Graphics/Sound, different systems, non-empty maps, innovating game play.

    I think its totally OK with the maker doing a game that has some or even all of that, but being extremely picky and having few spare time I will almost always only play the highly different rpg maker games.
    What I am very tired above everything of seeing is actually the frontal battle system, but its mostly because it already started as my least favorite system. (Never been a fan of Phantasy Star for example)
     
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  10. HexMozart88

    HexMozart88 The Master of Random Garbage Veteran

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    One thing I forgot about. Gigantic HUDs that obscure half the screen. More tolerable in front-view battles, but not when it's on the map all the time.
     
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  11. Benny Jackdaw

    Benny Jackdaw Ratty! Veteran

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    Not me this time. :3

    But yeah, I would love to see more games that don't have humans in them.

    You are my enemy for life.

    I am kind of joking and kind of not.

    I know I've probably made this clear, but I honestly believe that humans good/everything else bad type stories are everything wrong with media these days. I feel like we as a species have become incredibly self-absorbed to the point where all other life is seen as evil or objects. This is something I see way too often in Media. These days, if you have an RPG with a lot of characters, and not one of them isn't human (coughprojectxzonecough), that is a game-breaker for me.

    "Just because of character is human, that doesn't mean they cannot be likeable."

    I... disagree. when judging a fictional character, I look at the core character first before I worry about backstories and what not. If I do not like the core character, then I am not going to care about your backstory. A character with a cool appearance and a likeable personality will draw my attention more than a generic human with a bland personality, but they have a sappy backstory that doesn't matter to me because it's fictional.

    I believe that humans are inherently boring aesthetically. I feel that there is nothing you can really do to a human to make them interesting. I feel like we have done pretty much everything there is to do with humans, and the only way we can get creative is to not use them.

    "But characters have to be human, because as humans, we are the most relatable species."

    Once again, I... disagree. I don't know if you have noticed, but yes I am a little misanthropic. I have a hard enough time caring about real people that I don't know in real life, much less FICTIONAL people in a FICTIONAL universe.

    Plus, almost every single quote unquote relatable human assumes that everyone wants to be a badass animal killer. I know that is a dramatization, but more often than not, your character has no compassion for life outside the human race, and they are tasked to go out and Slaughter every creature under the sun that doesn't look like them. Not everyone finds this relatable, that is why I like games like Pokemon where the main character is actually have compassion for life outside their own species.

    Let's say, for argument's sake, that the main character needs to be relatable because the main character needs to feel like you. that doesn't mean that every single one of your allies needs to be human too! That doesn't mean that all friendly races need to look human! This is why I absolutely hate Star Ocean. There is no good reason that good guy aliens need to Simply Be humans from another planet, that bad guy aliens can look like other creatures. I also hate this about pretty much every single playable race in Final Fantasy XIV except for the hrothgar.

    Speaking of which, if there is anything I do agree with, I do tire of typical cat people. I feel like, if anything, it's a start to where I want storytelling in games to be, how we have moved on from humans with cat ears and Tails to anthropomorphic cats, but that being said, they are becoming increasingly common and mundane. I do often times get tired of the usual anthro cliches, and I would love to see more exotic animals turned into anthro characters like anteaters and porcupines.

    Honestly, though, playable anthropomorphic cats are better than nothing for me. I have to be brutally honest... When I see a game where the main hero is are humans, and the villains are anthropomorphic animals, I legitimately feel sick over it. This is something I seriously will not support. that is a reason I am writing up this post, because that comment legitimately sent a shiver down my spine. I hate seeing anthro animals as villains, especially if the main characters are human.

    And to be perfectly honest, you did offend me a little bit.
    v- it will not let me remove that.[/SPOILER]
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
  12. HexMozart88

    HexMozart88 The Master of Random Garbage Veteran

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    @Benny Jackdaw I kind of agree, kind of disagree here. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with human characters as long as they're not inherently good or bad. Plus, I tend to see the "Humans are all sadists who enjoy nothing but slaughtering animals" trope way more. That annoys me as well. I don't like to portray one race/species as good or evil, because that's like pointing at a polar bear and saying "you just ate a seal. Now your entire species is awful." I like to use humans if there's something relevant about it -- every race in my game has its own issues. Humans struggle with religious disagreement, the elves are overly nationalistic, and the Kemono have profound racism amongst themselves. It's also useful to use humans in comparison to Kemono because the king is human, and in trying to rule them, they bring out the worst in each other. But anyway, I think the reason behind making non-humanoids evil is for the sake of familiarity. Humans are afraid of things they don't understand. If they see a grotesque mutant, they're automatically afraid of it and once they become good, there's something unsettling about it and they're prone to be less likable anyway. Even take classic horror movies as an example. The mutilated monsters are always the ones that end up destroying the city or killing people, even if they were initially pure with good intentions So yes, humans are boring, but it's what we know the best, so we somehow feel the most comfortable with things that look like us. That's very likely also why gods in most religions are portrayed as humanoid.
     
  13. Benny Jackdaw

    Benny Jackdaw Ratty! Veteran

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    I just don't see familiarity as an excuse to write a shallow story. If you writing a space story, what is going to be more interesting? A universe that has all these expansive and interesting species of creatures, each with their different morals and standards and practices and whatnot, but a good chunk of them are capable of befriending other species, usually with work put into it oh, but it is very much possible...

    ... or something like Star Ocean, where good aliens are just humans from another planet?

    The thing is, not everyone wants familiar. I feel that something that is more familiar is less interesting and I am generally not going to want to learn more about something if they look too familiar . I'll admit, I do get your point a little bit, and I would generally prefer to learn about a monster that resembles an animal I like then something like a weird bio-organic monster Without a Face, but at the same time, I feel that familiarity isn't the only thing. In the end, it doesn't have a face, so that could make it harder to connect with it. I feel there is a slight balance to how familiar something should be in order for me to want to learn more, but I still stand by what I say about something being too familiar. I would much rather hear your story if you somewhat resemble, say, an anthropomorphic anteater or pinipred over something like an anthropomorphic wolf. I can still appreciate an anthropomorphic wolf in the right circumstances, but humans are where I lose interest entirely.

    Human gods are not true about all religions, though. This is a big reason I tend to be more interested in Egyptian or Indian gods over Greek, Roman or Norse gods. Many other religions also have their own non-human deities.

    Honestly, I just feel that the problem is narcissism. We as a species have become self-absorbed with our own image. There were times when we would protagonize things other than our own speeches, and I see no reason why we can't do that now, especially since I feel that protagonizing species other than humans might actually help raise awareness towards said species and show that we are not the only creatures of value on planet Earth. That is something that just seems to be lost in modern media.

    Humans can still be bad, but if they are the only species that can be good in your story, unless your story is solely about humans and nothing else, that just comes off as shallow. Even though animals might not have our intelligence, there have been instances where animals have helped humans. That might be why were seen so many cats lately, because our pets are a good example of that. Pet animals, however, are not the only examples. There have even been cases, rare but not unheard-of, where wild animals have helped humans. Because of this, I cannot accept a world that has all these different species, but only the ones that look just like humans can be Good.

    As for media that portrays humans as evil, I don't see that a lot outside of random Peta related content. Sure, a lot of media will portray us as heavily flawed, but there will usually be some hopeful message. Sadly, sometimes that message will basically be "yeah, humans are crap, but they are above the planet and should get no punishment or learn any lesson for their crimes," but we are still supposed to root for them. I don't see a lot of media where humans are portrayed strictly as villains.

    Edit: I'm sorry, I just have a lot to say about this subject. Another problem I have with most human protagonists is that there goal to save lives only extends to humans. Sometimes this is the character itself, but this is usually the fictional world's fault. As someone who has compassion for animals, most human protagonists are not relatable because of the fact that they do not show that trait. And when your cause only extends to humans, especially when there is no good reason for it, I see that as an embellishment of a real life problem and I cannot support that.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  14. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Benny Jackdaw and @HexMozart88 Your discussion is teetering on the brink of going off-topic. Please make sure that your discussion is in line with the OP's post, and does not wander off into RL politics (with a lower case p).
     
  15. Ragpuppy87

    Ragpuppy87 Veteran Veteran

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    Yeesh. After reading some of these I really have doubts about posting my finished project here. It seems to be full of everything people are tired of seeing. I'm still new to game design, but I have played video games most of my life. Here's my two cents.
    I don't think everything has to be revolutionary or brand new. These things people seem to be tired of, have appeared in so many games because they work on some level. They might not be the most creative but they get the job done. New things are always nice but I've found that when you stray too far from the familiar a lot of people will complain about that too. My goal isn't to create something completely unique. But rather use what has been done in the past as a foundation and put my own little twist on it. To me that's enough. If someone has the creativity to create something entirely unique and have it work well then more power to them. I admire people like that. But I don't think we should judge a game just because it has elements we have seen before in others. The more games come out the harder it is to find something that's never been seen before. I think it's about finding a happy medium. If a game has one new thing or element , even if all the rest is copy pasted from other games then I think it's good enough. The rest is about the actual gameplay. Sure it has all the classic items, the characters are cliché the story follows a predictable pattern, but put all together with that one new element I mentioned, is it still fun? If the answer is yes, than that's what matters to me. That's how I am approaching my first project. Maybe once I am far more experienced I can try something a bit more out there. But yeah. Final question for me is always, "Is it fun?" Nothing else really matters in the end.
     
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  16. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    Honestly I wouldn't take this thread too seriously, as it's full of conflicting points that are really just differing opinions. For example, I love ATB systems and don't mind RTP at all (as long as the rest of the game is good) but those are two things I've seen show up here multiple times. Likewise, there's people here who like front view, but when I browse Steam, I specifically look for screenshots of the battle system, and when I see front view, I generally pass unless the game otherwise looks absolutely revolutionary. You can't please everyone, so don't try to.

    Unless you're doing this as a business (in which case you want to make what's most likely to sell) just make the game you want to make. If you enjoy playing it, then you can be sure someone out there will enjoy it, too.

    - - -

    Edit: Oh I have one more!
    • Yanfly default visuals. Don't get me wrong, I love his plugins and use...probably too many of them in my game. However, it's pretty clear that he's no artist because the fat gauges and default animations used for spells, skills, and enemy attacks look horrible. Okay, in his defense on the animations, there aren't any default animations that make good "cast" animations, but it's pretty easy to make pretty decent ones of your own using the default animation assets. Bonus points if they're less than 10 frames. Finally, deflate those gauges or find some way to use custom ones, because they really don't need to be that huge.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
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  17. Soryuju

    Soryuju Combat Balance Enthusiast Veteran

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    @Ragpuppy87

    I agree that you can’t treat threads like these like bibles of good RPG design, although many of the issues raised are valid. Between this thread and other similar ones, there are hundreds of pages of complaints on these forums about RPG Maker games, and they cover just about every trope and mechanic you can think of. You simply can’t please everyone, and that’s okay. Often the most innovative and/or successful games out there also have the harshest critics.

    That said, traditional elements of games are more likely to draw criticism when they’re included just because the designer thinks players are expecting them, or because these elements are familiar and easy to design. Likewise, creative elements are more likely to fail when they’re only born out of pressure on designers to make games feel unique. In both cases, the designers are effectively trying to play it safe by what they think their players are expecting, rather than making decisions that actually reflect their core design goals.

    As such, I’m a little hesitant to agree with your point that it’s fine to copy/paste traditional mechanical/narrative elements in games so long as there’s something else new in the mix. If you really want to bring out the best aspects of that new thing, you’re probably going to have to change some of the traditional elements in your game to complement your innovations. And once you start making changes to traditional mechanical/narrative elements, new problems often arise and require further adjustments. It’s a process of constantly questioning how these elements could serve your goals better. Sometimes traditional elements will end up meshing well with the new ones, but other times you’ll realize you need further innovations to realize your original idea’s potential. Treating new and traditional elements like they’re static, separate things may be simpler, but I don’t believe it’s an approach which often produces great games.

    Also, I think “Is it fun?” is a decent question to help keep perspective on your game as a whole. Personally, however, I prefer asking “What about this game is fun?” I’ve played lots of games which I feel are fun despite some of their design choices, rather than because of those choices. Not all parts of a game contribute equally to the fun of the experience. With that in mind, if you can figure out which parts of your game are most responsible for the fun factor, and which parts make the player spend time on things that aren’t especially fun, then it can help you to make a better game overall.

    I guess all of this sums up what I’m tired of seeing - design decisions made on autopilot, or just to conform with what the designer thinks players are expecting. Great games aren’t built on compromise, so be bold! Think deep! Have confidence in yourself!
     
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  18. Benny Jackdaw

    Benny Jackdaw Ratty! Veteran

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    I was honestly kind of going to say the same thing, but a lot of people said it better than I do. If anything, what one person may absolutely hey it could be something another person actually happens to like quite a bit. I feel like there are many instances that have proven that.
     
  19. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Ragpuppy87 I say just ignore them. 99% of the critics have never made a game or finished one. Plus as I stated earlier if you follow most of the advice in this thread a commercial game on steam would tank and I say that due to discussions with devs who have sold games that are actually selling.

    Now there are some common thoughts you should pay attention to that are seen as universally bad but outside if that just ignore it and make the game
     
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  20. Kes

    Kes Global Moderators Global Mod

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    I think it also helps critics if you state that this is your first game. We were all beginners once, and no one can expect perfection from someone's first game. A couple of things, though, to avoid unnecessary criticism:

    First, bugs. Even a brilliant game will be deleted if there are loads of bugs. So playtest, playtest and playtest again. Get someone else to play it as well, because often bugs emerge because someone plays in a way you did not expect.

    Second, grammar and typos. Go over it carefully, and rest assured that you will miss something. As long as it is just one or two small things, no one (reasonable) will scream at you.
     
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