What are you tired of seeing in RPG Maker games?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ain, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    For learning purposes, I'd actually be curious to know which advice in this thread is considered outright bad. If it could be done in such a way that wouldn't call anyone out, it'd probably be pretty useful information to share.
     
  2. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    Off the top of my head its about anything that says you have to be drastically different. Sadly different isn't selling right now and people are buying the familiar.

    I'd have to check more when im not on my phone though.

    As for the good advice the ones I've seen that you should take into mind:

    Bad grammar or spelling or bugs. Steam will eat you alive if you have too many of them.

    Long animations you can't turn off. The PC version of ff8 was ripped badly for that when it was new to pc in 2000. PC gamers had little tolerance for that then and still do today.

    Anything that wastes the players time. Avoid that at all costs.
     
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  3. Benny Jackdaw

    Benny Jackdaw Ratty! Veteran

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    I think that's pretty dumb to assume people want the exact same story and the exact same settings over and over. Being familiar doesn't mean you have to rewrite someone else's story for the 10 millionth time. You can still add your own unique and interesting elements.

    It is also pretty asinine to think people should do what is familiar if that is not what they enjoy doing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
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  4. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    And nowhere in my post did I say make and sell same story. You need to look at it as how much will someone who is deciding to buy your hand will know?
     
  5. Ateliae

    Ateliae Defying Gravity Veteran

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    • Generator faces.
    • Default battle system / sound effects
    • Horrible typefaces that are difficult to read.
    • Hook that's long, boring, and exposition dump. I played like 5 RPG Makers in the last days and they all had this story hook with similar stories. It was unbearable. I'm more of a story > gameplay type of person, too.
    • Unique settings that aren't just purely sci-fi, modern, or fantasy. I want to see some mix of them, like incorporating fantasy into modern, or fantasy into sci-fi.
    • Non-Parallaxed Maps that are purely RTP and boxy/empty. I've seen normal mapping done very-well, but most of the time it's done poorly.
    • Random encounters.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  6. Benny Jackdaw

    Benny Jackdaw Ratty! Veteran

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    @bgillisp

    I don't know. I can't help but feel that most people care more about gameplay than familiarity, and that a lot of game developer is, mostly Indie Developers, care more about making a game they enjoy making Over making a game that is merely familiar. I'll admit to being jaded when it comes to games, and I generally stay away from the familiar, and that it would also be wrong to assume that some people don't want familiar, but I feel like people that actually require it are not as big as you think. I mean, Delta Rune and A Night in the Woods aren't familiar, but they are still very popular.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  7. Lornsteyn

    Lornsteyn Sleepy Dragon Veteran

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    Really have too agree with bgillisp, especially in the case of RPG Maker games.
    People always want make there game to stand out and throw so many pointless stuff in there like crafting or minigames, just to be unique.
    Sometimes the simple things can be enough, too.
    A good story and a simple enjoyable battle system is actually everything what matters for me personally.
    Look at the steamcharts, most of the games arent that different or unique, people enjoy familiar things, thats just a fact and not only for games.
     
  8. Benny Jackdaw

    Benny Jackdaw Ratty! Veteran

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    For some reason, I thought he meant something different. That might be one of the reasons I stopped working on earthquake Warriors RPG. I realize I was adding a bunch of fancy features that really didn't work very well. The biggest offender was my Grande feature that turned characters into giant boss like monsters. One particular example of how flawed this feature was was a battle between the main villain and a giant Mammoth you free from an icy prison, and it just ended up being a hugely dragged out slog that was over all boring to play through.
     
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  9. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    What I was referring to was how you present the game to convince the player to buy it. If it looks too different in that initial 30 second impression (or so) you get with the player checking out the store page for your game and deciding whether to buy it or not, it often gets ignored unless the player really wants different. You can't use much in those first 30 seconds, so what you present has to be good and at least feel a little familiar to the player. For those who want story it needs to show the best of your story, and not feel too odd at first for example. Remember you can pull all the what in the world plot twists you want later in the game, but don't do that in the first 30 second impression from what I've seen.

    Also when it comes to the story making it too strange or different in the first couple of hours usually doesn't go over well *unless* that is what you present your game as. You need to start with the familiar so that as players learn the game they can fall back on what they already know and not have to worry about that too. In the past you might have gotten away with not doing that as you could count on the players to read your manual first but not today. Many want to play the game and get started now, and hang the manual (and many feel the same about long tutorials too). Whether that's a good thing or not is another debate though.

    The other thing I've noticed is you need to present your game accurately. Don't present it as something it is not. This not only hurts you on Steam when you use all the tags in the world as people will go to the game, decide it is not what you tagged it as and move on, which lowers the odds it will show up for others. But, it can also result in a negative review as you may have gotten a sale convincing someone your game was something it wasn't, and they will be ticked about it.

    So short version...make a good impression in the first few seconds the player is here, present the game accurately and don't make it seem too weird at first. It might not be possible to do all of those at once especially if you made a game that is meant to be very different in which case just present it honestly. Those who want that will buy it and you won't get ranked over the coals for it by those who didn't want it and felt mislead.
     
  10. XPKobold

    XPKobold Veteran Veteran

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    I am very surprised the gray area isn't explored more often in RPG's. though i can understand how difficult to portray a morally gray character or villain. I do wish to see more games explore the area between good and evil.
     
  11. HexMozart88

    HexMozart88 The Master of Random Garbage Veteran

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    @XPKobold I'm kind of mixed when it comes to morally grey characters, because a lot of times, it crosses the line into "literally everyone is evil" and then I'm just a jerk fighting another jerk, and I don't feel comfortable doing that. Sure, make the player question the character a bit, like, "should I really have killed that orc?" but a lot of people just turn it into "I'm forced to kill an entire village of completely innocent people and I'm somehow supposed to root for this guy?"
     
  12. kirbwarrior

    kirbwarrior Veteran Veteran

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    I think I'd like morally grey characters if they were actually morally grey instead of "I do evil but I also do good" or "I'm less evil than Hitler".

    As for OP, the one and only thing that will turn me away from a game (that is more apparent in RPG Maker) is when the battle system is set up for parties but I only get one character for a long time. It's one thing when it's a single battle at the start (it helps set up understanding what battling looks like in it's simplest form) but I dislike it when great games do this. Anything else and I'll often give the game a chance.
     
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  13. Milennin

    Milennin "With a bang and a boom!" Veteran

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    Can't believe I never posted in here before...

    For me, the #1 thing I'm most tired of seeing, and which happens to be quite common as well, is engaging my first encounter and getting either
    • no skills whatsoever
    • default skills only
    • skills with creative descriptions that read like "deal damage", "hit the enemy twice", "heal an ally" (although admittedly, this is still light-years beyond the former two, and can possibly redeem itself later on, depending on how much thought was put into the rest of the skill sets...)
    I'm perfectly OK with default assets for the graphics and sounds in a game, since those can be used cleverly and don't impact the quality of the gameplay, but seeing default database settings for skills, items etc being used is something I am tired of seeing.

    I'm also tired of games that disable dashing/running inside of buildings. I don't care about "realism" in my fantasy RPG's, I just wanna loot people's belongings and get on with my journey.

    I'm very tired of text scroll intros, or any intro that goes over the history of the world and drops a bunch of fantasy names of the numerous gods, kingdoms and rulers of that world, that have no meaning to me and that'll leave my memory 2 seconds after reading it.
     
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  14. kirbwarrior

    kirbwarrior Veteran Veteran

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    i always forget about this, it's definitely a red flag. I'm just lucky enough to not see it much.
     
  15. Treynor

    Treynor Veteran Veteran

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    1) Stock assets. I honestly hate the way the stock assets look in RPG Maker. I love the art in SNES RPGs, but RPG Maker art is too small, the sprites look squashed, and everything has very fine edges. Not only that, but that style of pixel art has now been stigmatized due to the low quality games associated with it.

    2) Too much open space. Why does everything need to be so huge? This applies not only to bedrooms, but also world maps. Your game is not more epic just because I need to walk a long time to get to the next town. That doesn't make it a 'journey', it makes it a slog.

    3) Trying to copy Japanese style. If you are not Japanese, please insert your own experiences and culture into the game. Not someone else's. Just to be clear, I'm ok with games influenced by, or containing aspects of, other cultures. Just not games that are WHOLLY influenced by another culture.

    4) AWFUL Dialog. I understand that some people think that they're making more realistic dialog when they insert "Hello", "Haha", "Thanks", and "Bye" into them, but all it does is make the player rapidly click through the boring stuff so they can get to the meat.

    5) Exposition. ARGH! I hate it. Find a clever way to explain something such as the environment or something.

    6) Typos.

    7) TOO MANY PLUGINS. Just because a plugin exists, doesn't mean you have to use it.

    8) The same cliche story lines with the same predictable everything that eventually culminates in your party of heroes finally collecting the final crystal and defeating the Demon God, Akal'Bos the Dark One. I call it 'The Devourer of Worlds' philosophy, based on a Mount and Blade mod I played where the player had a mace called The Devourer of Worlds, but when I went to the weapons shop to look at some new stuff, They had like 200 Devourer of Worlds maces and suddenly, it didn't feel so unique anymore.

    9) Sexual content. I'm not conservative or religious, but the fact that people are pumping these games out is cheapening RPG Maker.

    10) ZERO CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. The person who starts the journey, is the same one who ends it. Boring.
     
  16. CraneSoft

    CraneSoft Filthy Degenerate Veteran

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    I thought this was similar to an old thread where it's about game mechanics people don't like in games but also contained flavours of "What I don't like in games so I think it's bad for RPGMaker as a whole" (heh).

    Some of my 2 cents:

    - Games that are trying to be more than what they actually are. Looks can be deceiving.

    - Bad/boring/meh visuals, maps made completely from RTP tilesets in the laziest way imaginable, generator faces, those trigger my turd-detection alarm that it's going to be a amateurish game. Sure exceptions do exist, but if the dev are not making effort to try standing out from the crowd, they are unlikely to get much exposure.

    - Enemies/battlers (especially bosses) that use either default RTP or assets from very popular open-sources, it starts to get old. Adult-oriented games are (somehow) excusable since they are never the focus, but for the others focusing on the gameplay especially battles? You can bet I'm not going to look forward into fighting your generic black dragon boss ID #69.

    - Focusing on ONLY the selling point of the game and cheap out / make bad design choices on literally everything else.

    - The default movement behavior is walk instead of dash. Seems minor, until you realize the default walking speed is slow as snails and I certainly do not want to keep holding Shift just to run.

    - Bugs that are a result from bad / lack of playtesting. I'm talking about game-breaking ones in particular, like the ones that crashes the game when you try to exit the map from the wrong tile, getting stuck in limbo, or sometimes outright freezing movement. These are inexcusable.

    - Trying to make a side-scrolling platformer or an action game using RPGMaker, just no. Please use the right game engine for that.
     
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  17. Mystic_Enigma

    Mystic_Enigma Envoy of Silliness Veteran

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    Oh boy, where do I start...

    Post-apoctolyptic/Bleak Futuristic settings. - So this huge crisis(manmade or otherwise) went and wrecked the world, or those advances in technology ended up dooming us all. Or worse, BOTH! It seriously can't get any worse than that. Yes whatever Resistance unit/survivors fight on to make it stink a little less, but it ends up doing nothing, or making things EVEN worse! That's not the kind of world I would want to involve myself in. No way no how!

    Swearing - Yeah, i'm going to be "That Guy" and say that I am very against it. I MAY look the other way if it's meant to be some hardcore M rated game, but otherwise i'll usually avoid games that do that. Even the "Minor ones" (ESPECIALLY those) I won't forgive. Exceptions are possible, but generally, i'm hesitant to touch even E+10 titles because i'm afraid someone will get bold. Just once will trigger me and will cause me to drop it...

    Horror - Probably gonna trigger a whole lotta users with this one, but yeah, I don't like it. At all. I have enough trouble sleeping as it is, making it worse with those kind of games is just bad for the psyche!

    Evil Characters - ...who are evil, just because they can. These jokers make themselves known to make it a trend in hurting you or other innocent people, for literally no reason. (Okay, maybe there IS a reason, but it's usually petty as all crime...). The "I can't help myself" excuse is a lie, yes they CAN, they just choose not to...They're unforgivable and irredeemable, and all I want is to see them suffer! Part of the reason i'm trying to make a game that lacks Villains.

    "Take over/Destroy the world" scenarios. - I'm actually getting tired of this motive across the board. First off, do they even think it though what'll happen if they try? The resources/lives it'll cost? And if they DO manage to succeed(stars forbid...)...THEN WHAT? Will they put everyone to work? Will they lounge out in space and say "I told you so!"? It's just ludicrous that anyone would want to ruin the very planet they stand on...

    Generic humanoid races - I mean among the lines of Orcs, ogres, Goblins, Vampyres, Elves (I can't stand Elves, those pompous, pointy-eared plods...) and the like. I'm not nearly as triggered from other things from this list, but I wish there were races that didn't automatically look down on you and weren't just re-skinned people. I wouldn't mind if developers got creative and made something new. but if said creations are any animals that have human bodies, then i'm gonna be doing double-takes...

    Fanservice - Yep, another trigger-prone entry. But If you got characters that have nothing going on for them but their looks, then i'm just gonna sigh...

    Extensive grinding - Ugh, I for one would rather not fight through 20 of whatever just to fill that sliver of an experience bar. If it makes someone nod fall asleep, its too much!

    Cute but Evil - A seemingly cute person, creature, or other entity that looks good-intentioned, but is the complete opposite in person. If you can't trust that adorable little rabbit-thing not to steal your soul, what CAN you trust?!

    -

    There are probably more of these, but I just wanted to share some.
     
  18. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    Oh hey, I think I actually have some more after thinking about it
    • Default animation [The biggest peeves] - I mentioned in my previous post.
    • Dev who does not even bother to optimize the game - They include everything in the game and blew up the game size like 500mb++ or even use HD version of everything then they don't even use all the files. Then making an excuse "But you have no problem downloading AAA games with 10 GB+ why you can not treat my game the same and it just 500mb?". Frankly, if they don't even care about the game optimization (both game size and also performance) I probably won't expect much about their game.
    • Additionally, 500mb++, demo game, barely has content to explore.
    • Puzzle and Horror type of game - Although exceptional exist, like if it's a fan game of a franchise I like.
    • "This game has no leveling, so you don't have to grind"
    • Games that use ms.paint quality graphics because they want originality. I prefer games with RTP than some games that tried so hard to be original.
    • Default BGM.
    • Roadblocking puzzle.
    • Some games that the dev decided to insert rhythm game out of nowhere and has no relevance with the actual game.
    • Default unmodified turn battle system - At least try to be engaging. I appreciate trying even if it fails.
    • Default unmodified Moghunter's UI.
    • Intro or cutscene that takes too long.
    • Text scroll of course.
    • 1080p resolution.
    • Forcing me to use full screen.
    • Games that only focus on the graphics. Fails at everything else.
    • Uses the default VXA cursor confirmation sound effect.
    • Unreadable font choices.
    • Bland cutscenes with no sprite choreography.
    • ATB with no waiting. ATB is fine as long as it waits for me to input.
    I might have some more.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
  19. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @TheoAllen : I think you mean the MV default selection sound. Compared to that one, the ACE one is nirvana.
     
  20. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    @bgillisp no, I exactly mean the VXA one. Even I change mine to VX one. But I think MV is equally bad.
     

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