What are you tired of seeing in RPG Maker games?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ain, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. cmgamesofficial

    cmgamesofficial Learner Veteran

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    I'm tired of the same "story-style", I want to see something different, something that would make me *wow*.
     
  2. Little Adventurer

    Little Adventurer Veteran Veteran

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    *raises eyebrows* Care to elaborate?
     
  3. Azurecyan

    Azurecyan Veteran Veteran

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    that's a very broad statement. Define what would "wow" you since anything can wow an audience if it's played correctly.
     
  4. Lars Ulrika

    Lars Ulrika I punch Therefore I am Harvest the land Taking the Veteran

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    Hell yes! That's what I'm trying to do with my main game among other things, you get to visit civilizations inspired from many different real countries etc.
    Among other things there will be places inspired from Mali/Ethiopia's golden ages, Majapahit/Sriwijaya (Indonesian empires) etc... :) (I tend to always mix two civilizations in each new country in the game. For exemple, the equivalent of Japan I'm making now also has german elements, especially linguistically).

    And yeah that's a point I forgot : would like to see less the same old european-inspired or japanese-inspired setting....except when it's Mother.
     
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  5. Wyrdist

    Wyrdist LSDemon Member

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    Didn't read every post so I may have something that's already on here

    • God is real and every religion is true all at the same time
    • A prophecy
    • Feeling the need to explain EVERYTHING. I know people like this, but it's actually dumb. People in real life don't know everything about everything on Earth and how it works, so why does it matter how RPG Crystals form?
    • Darkness is evil. Sure
    • Hero has a dark side
    • Hero has a dark side that triggers when overusing some combat mechanic (Transform too many times win a chance to become Dark Evil Majin Hero )
    • Hero's parents aren't his real parents
    • Oh there's just living skeletons in that cave. It's all good lol
    • "You fool!"
    • Villain that talks like Shakespeare
    • Villain with the "perfect world" BS
    • Villain kills his henchman... lol why not? ;)
    • Abandoned place that's not so abandoned because Orcs/Bandits/Robots found it
    • Any boss that copies all of your moves
    • I guess everybody uses the same Firaga. Uncreatives
    • "Deathgagaga" spell that doesn't work when it matters
    • A love interest in general. Why can't people just hang out?
    • A love interest that's blatantly being referenced by everybody else, but the anime levels are too high, causing the male and his love interest to deny it in an anime fashion
    • Use of a world map in general
     
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  6. Azurecyan

    Azurecyan Veteran Veteran

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    lol this, or it's all one sided; everyone knows the main character or the other person loves the other but they don't do squat to put them together and would rather watch.


    Another one I'm tired of are sidequests that require you to find the old geezer who's wandered away(either in the town or around the world). You find people who's seen him to find he went back home! Please...if I wasn't already on a wildgoose chase with the main quest already...


    Sidequests that have you travel to one city and back multiple times with no fast travel function. 
     
  7. Victor Sant

    Victor Sant Veteran Veteran

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    I can sum all i'm tired of seeing or RPG Maker games with one word: Default.

    • Default fonts. (i really tired of the RM default font)
    • Default windowskins. (don't even change the window color available on the database)
    • Default battle animations (not only the graphic is default, but the animtion setup also is)
    • Default music. (not even a pitch change to mix things a bit)
    • Default sounds. (again, not even a ptich to give some variation)
    • Default battle system. (not a single twist, just the default batte system, with maybe an ATB plugin also "defaulted" as possible)
    • Default plugins. (use plugins as it is, without using the customization options when avaiable)
    • Default use of YF plugins (a separated one for this, YF plugins are so poorly used that they are becoming more default and boring than not using them, i belive that most people don't use even 5% of what the plugins are capable of)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2016
  8. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Victor_saint: I think the reason some people use the default font and windowskin is they are easy on the eyes. I've tried to tweak mine, and every time I come up with something that causes headaches. And keep in mind for fonts, we cannot legally distribute fonts (usually) and the default font is guaranteed to work, so that is probably why we see it so much.


    I can agree with  you on the rest of that, but just remember there is probably a reason the defaults are used, and that is because they work and work pretty well. Why change something that isn't broken just to change it?
     
  9. Balako

    Balako PattyCake assosiation Veteran

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    the only reason im keeping defaults is because i dont know how to change them yet.


    RM tiles and sprites included >.> *slowly learning how the mechanics work so i can place my own styles but would take more than 1 week of reading tutorials X, X*


    but i assume too many people just want to release games for sake of quick profit and they do nothing but add a plot?? i guess thats how defaults become frowned upon ....
     
  10. Victor Sant

    Victor Sant Veteran Veteran

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    There are a lot of legal free fonts on the internet. It's not that hard to find.


    And in the case of older makers that were Windows only, Windows itself have some nice fonts, even Times New Roman is better than the default RM Font (and would be better for some fantasy scenaros, rather than the 'modern looking' fonts from VX Ace and MV).


    One thing that can instantly turn me off is to see the default windowskin + default font. A game using both will have a hard time convincing me that the rest of the game didn't receive the same poor treatment as something that you will be looking all the time during the game and wasn't even changed/improved.

    None of them are good enough to not warrant improvement.


    Specially considering that they do offer the options for improvemet, they are there, people simply don't use them, and in most cases, they aren't used because people think they are 'good enough', but simply because they don't want to do extra work.


    Also this really don't matter if people have a reason for that. They are overused and this makes me tired of them.
     
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  11. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Victor_Saint: I think we (and many others on the internet) are going to disagree some here then. I know there are occasions when the default music is EXACTLY what I need, and any editing kills what I'm trying to convey. Now, it is rare, and I think it's happened 3x in my 11 hour project so far, but it still happens. Same with other defaults.


    As for fonts, maybe they are supposedly easy to find on the internet, but I am very leery of using a font just found on the internet that is supposedly free. That is how you often get into legal trouble. I think you were absent from the forums when we had the big legal debate about fonts, but maybe look that one up and see? Due to that one many of us are leery of changing the font now.
     
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  12. The Mighty Palm

    The Mighty Palm Resident Palm Tree Restaff

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    I am 110% on board with @Victor Sant on this one. The default stuff to me should be used only as placeholders until you get the real assets.
    The font doesn't bother me as much, but a nice custom font is still good. 
    Coincidentally, I believe Victor has a script for just that. Marketing strats are op. 

    //I'm only talking about commercial projects here. Non-commercial I don't see any point into sinking money into it unless you just want to.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2016
  13. Victor Sant

    Victor Sant Veteran Veteran

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    It doesn't matter if people disagree or not.


    I'm just stating what I'm tired of. Not saying what is right or wrong. (although some are clearly wrong anyway)

    The problem is that when 'sometimes' become 'all the time'.


    Yes, there are times that the default is what people need, but never someone will need the default all the time.


    I myself would use some music assets from MV just becuase they are pretty good.

    I bet that this "many" is less than you belive. Most people just don't change because they don't care to change.

    Not coincidence, i did the plugin exactly because of how much I dislike the default fonts.
     
  14. cmgamesofficial

    cmgamesofficial Learner Veteran

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    I'll add more, these are my own observations from playing RM games.


    (1) The game story that starts from the very beginning.


    Most of RM games I've played having a hero started as a weakling. Started from not so skilled to a skilled wielding swordsman. This is okay but too overused concept.


    solution ex: Why not put the first scene to the last chapter of the game where the hero already killed the evil boss but then a scenario came and the place turns into ashes. The hero realized that he was the one who got killed by the boss then fades-out..chapter 1.


    This is just an example, you can put your own imagination there.


    (2) Skills elements everywhere and for everyone.


    When I first played an RM game (VX), I was excited seeing this hero and his party buds having this sets of skills namely Fireball, Water splash, Earth Crash, etc etc.


    The next game..still the same with just different name. Same damage type/elements.


    Okay I get it already..A fire type skill can burn an enemy, but why not make it more inventive?


    solution ex: Instead of just putting damage to a Fire type skill obviously burning, put an effect to the hero too. Everytime the hero cast that fireball, he also get 10% damage of burning. Aside from the cooldown plugin of Yanfly, putting a negative effect to the player's hero can give more thought and depth. Everytime you cast that skill, the burning effect to the player will increase. To avoid this, you need to wear a special kind of metal gloves or protection suit. But wearing a metal gloves will decrease the hero's agility.


    Make the player THINK of what he is going to do in that particular situation and not just casting this skill and this skill. Admit it it's too boring and tedious already.


    One more thing about skills..


    Hero X can cast fire skills, water skills, earth skills, thunder skills..Ang is that you?


    What the h...I can completely undertand if the hero is some Godlike creature or someone who is the version of Ang from Avatar..but if he is just a sword wielding swordsman/woman, why on Earth can he cast all those powerful skills??
    Why....?


    This is one of an example of games that the game devs did not thought very attentively or not spending some time while making those skills for those given characters. Humans casting thunder skills? Zeus?..Even Hercules who is the son of a God can't cast a thunder bolt.


    I'm not saying you make it more realistic, but at least your game world must have some sense.


    (3) Lack of visual design diversity.


    With hundreds of plugins and still coming, I have no doubt that we can make our games more unique in some way. Visuals can give that to us. Changing colors and background can give it more appeal than the usual defaults. Yet visual is not enough. Let's just say you have a very out of this world game story idea and you want people to love it and putting some effort to your game's visual design can improve your game more.


    Look at the few games that I once started but didn't come to reality (for some reasons).


    [​IMG]


    In Raven Noah (VXA) a game that I started last year 2015, I used one of my favorite scripts of my fave scripter Mog Hunter. The Monogatari Menu.


    What I love about this menu script of MH is the ability to change placements of the window's menu. You can also put your own made background and graphics. I'm still looking for that kind of script in RMMV but the only plugin that emulates the Monogatari is Mr. Trivel's Book Menu which I am using and working right now.


    [​IMG]


    An early version Menu of Raven Noah script by Mog Hunter.



    But still the Book Menu can only change the Main Menu and not the Items menu, skills menu etc.


    I hope there are plugins that are versatile enough to let us customize everything from Title screens, Main Menu, Item Menu, Class Menu, Status Menu, etc. where we can place everything as we like and change those windows to our own made graphics like Mog Hunter's Monogatari.


    If you know the kind of plugin exist that has those features, please let me know.


    (4) Stereotypes


    A handsome swordsman, a beautiful blonde princess, an evil lord full of evilness, an NPC merchant old man that always says "Welcome to this town!".


    I have a game concept called The Book of Amek with the main protagonist being a young black skinned boy. I also have a dog protagonist, and monsters in my other game concepts.


    If you can't avoid stereotype characters at least give them something that would make them stand-out or different from the rest.


    Ex. A handsome swordsman but he is gay. A beautiful blonde princess who joined battle arenas. An evil lord that is not so evil after all but later he/she is actually fighting for justice. An NPC merchant old man that says "I'm a bit busy right now so maybe you return by 4pm?" etc.


    Add some thing than the usual.


    (5) Be Different.


    To sum it all, it's not really about having this "new" concepts or ideas but rather it is about being different from the rest of the thousands of games and Rpg Maker games out there.


    [​IMG]


    A sample screenshot from my game DUST (c) CM Games 2015.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2016
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  15. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Victor_Saint: Fair enough, I'll give you that. It just sounded like you were against the defaults being used period, not even once every 3 hours or so.


    Though back to the OP:


    Things I'm tired of seeing:


    -Custom font just to have a custom font. Make sure it is not unreadable please! And make sure it doesn't smash letters together into an unreadable mess at least.


    -Wide open 90 x 90 houses. I'll admit I made that mistake in my IGMC project years ago, but just stop and think about how huge that is if it is 90 x 90 tiles inside. If we assume the bed is 6 x 3 feet (average bed) and since it is 2 x 1 tiles, that means the average indoor tile should represent 3 feet of space. So 90 x 90 = 270 x 270 foot house. I don't know many houses that have 72,900 square feet of space.


    -Insistence on custom battlers. This is more a flaw in early projects, but unless you can draw yourself, this usually this results in either a mismatched art style, or, the project being too expensive to make. Especially right now when sales of commercial games on all fronts are really low (look up the article on how poorly Aveyond 4 did, and that's from a well known developer).


    -Unrealistic kickstarters for RPGMaker projects. Aveyond 4 sold ~$30000 (per the article posted by the developer). If you think you need more than that game did to make your game, rethink your game.
     
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  16. stupid enough to like FF13

    stupid enough to like FF13 Veteran Veteran

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    Obnoxious sunbeam effects. It's the lens glare of the RPG Maker world.
     
  17. Myst88

    Myst88 Veteran Veteran

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    I'm quite easygoing so nothing really bothers me too much. I guess if I'm tired of seeing anything it would be -

    • Default anything for commercial games. I have no problem with default resources in free games. In fact I think MV has some amazing music compared to past RPG makers. But if you expect me to pay you money to play your game at least put some effort in. Pretty much all commercial games that use mainly base resources are very lazily done. It really does feel like it was quickly thrown together to make some quick cash.
     
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  18. esby

    esby eejit Veteran

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    I actually agree with you in theory but I have a couple issues when you contrast what you said with what you presented.


    2. 'Realism'. RPGs for the most part aren't realistic, so why force mandatory "who can cast what rules" on them. Why can't some random swordsman can cast both fire and ice, the important thing is to have consistency throughout your game world. Whether that's fire and ice combo or sticking to one elemental affinity is up to the dev, neither option is any more 'realistic' than the other.


    3. I hate to be the one to say this but that screenshot does not have a single ounce of visual diversity; and for me, personally, it screams RPGMaker at this point more than the RTP does, it could really come from any number of projects that use the same resources with the same mapping style. The same ben ben trees, with the same dirt autotile, with the same dusky blue tint, with the same lighting effects, with the same kaduki sprites. Off the top of my head one visually identical game I can think of is Linus, a game that started development in 2012, if you told me that these screens were from the same game I'd believe you. I don't see the point in putting in so much effort into visual design if it's just to create something which is honestly cookie cutter.


    [​IMG]


    You could always look into Luna Engine if you want more control over customising the windows.


    5. "Be different" Is posting a screenshot with a graphical style lifted from Limbo being different? Limbo was different when it was released, now it's not because there's a myriad of games that have appropriated the graphical style and the minimal story presentation. It might just be me but if I see someone telling others to be different then I expect to see something completely new and unique from them.

    I know this isn't the point you're making but bear in mind that the average game on steam only sells 32,000 units and that's when you factor in AAA behemoths like GTA, Skyrim and CS:GO. (I imagine average sales for indie games would be shockingly low) I think shifting $30,000 is pretty decent going when you realise how saturated the market has become and that you're selling to a fairly niche audience. I'd be interested in seeing the piracy rates for commercial RPG Maker games considering the lack of any protection against it. It's worth noting that a recently released game, Punch Club, sold 300,000 copies but was pirated over 1.6 million times, so it does remain a fairly large issue for smaller developers.
     
  19. PsychicToaster

    PsychicToaster Best Clairvoyant Appliance 2018 Veteran

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    Still better than being a self-published author. Some people only sell about 50 books, even if they're amazing reads. Of course, many of those people failed to properly market their work, but I'd love to sell 32,000 copies when my book is done. 


    I have no idea what this had to do with anything. See page 2 or 3 for a lengthy list that I wrote of around 32 things I hate or people should be doing differently. Lol.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2016
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  20. cmgamesofficial

    cmgamesofficial Learner Veteran

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    Excuse me sir/ma'am, you have to realize that this is MY own view regarding the question " What are YOU tired of seeing in RPG Maker games? " so I don't see anything wrong with what I've said. We were all asked and I just gave my own views/answers.


    A mere swordsman that can cast fire and ice spells that obviously has no knowledge in magic simply because he is not a mage or a sword mage is UNBELIEVABLE for me. It just doesn't make any sense for me. If you want me to immerse while playing your game, at least make it believable. 



    It hurts me personally that people bashing DUST and comparing it to Limbo, yes of course Limbo is a great game I believe but judging my game without even knowing the difference between Limbo and DUST is insulting. Is Limbo the only game that can have a "black and white" theme of a game? And we are talking about RPG Maker games here according to the question above, so I don't know why Limbo has something to do with RPG Maker? Yes the visual is not different compared to the game Limbo but the rest has a huge difference (I apologize for my English).


    Lastly, I don't want to sound all-knowing and "mr. Expert" here because I'm still a newbie in game dev. but attacking someone's personal opinion is a bit disrespecting for me.
     
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