What are you tired of seeing in RPG Maker games?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ain, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    Chrispy brought up something though that I wish games in general would stop doing (and not just RM games)


    -Shoehorning in a boss fight just because. A game does not HAVE to have an epic 3 round boss fight at specific points in the game. If it doesn't fit your story, don't put it in! Some of the best games I ever played only had a single round final boss fight just because they knew there was no reason to make the final fight a 2 (or more) round fight, so they didn't force it in.
     
  2. Phonantiphon

    Phonantiphon Veteran Veteran

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    This.


    There's no reason why there should be an "Obligatory Boss Fight" in a game if it is not appropriate for that game, anymore than there should be the need for the sudden appearance of a deity of some fashion for no other reason than to pontificate about X and\or Y. The idea of the Deus-ex-Machina worked in Greek Theater, but it doesn't necessarily work anywhere else!!


    Also, as mentioned previously: Grammar and Spelling. There's nothing worse than having to wade through terribly composed dialogue\descriptions. Not having whatever the game is being written in as your primary language is no excuse either - you should check for the native grammar\spelling of the language you are writing the game in, whether it's in French, or Urdu, or English, or Mongolian-Throat-Singing...! ;)


    If possible get someone else to proof-read it, or go through it with someone else, as with the best will in the world it's really easy to miss stuff yourself - especially if it's not in your primary language.


    If you're gonna release it you should at least have checked it and played it first - this I'm sure is one of the reasons that RPG Maker games often have a less than stellar reputation. If all of your hard work is going to waste because the immediate impression being given is that you never bothered checking through something as simple as whether its grammatically correct, that ultimately doesn't reflect fairly on you, quite apart from anything else.


    Shoddily-produced and -released games don't reflect fairly on the RPG Maker community as a whole, I think it's important to remember that when you put out one of these to the wider world, you are to an extent representing all of us, the community that creates these games, whether you like it or not.
     
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  3. JAD94

    JAD94 The lunar knight Veteran

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    I like to see unique and customization in RM projects, so I typically dont like seeing:

    • The use of the default font
    • Similar use of cliche rpg items ( potions, revives, ethers)
    • (Though I am guilty of this) Same use for TP/MP/HP
    • Cardboard characters
    • Extremely frequent random encounters
    • Overuse of the RTP ( I dont mind seeing some RTP but the whole game shouldnt be RTP)

    That's about it ^_^
     
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  4. Johnstir

    Johnstir Dark Imaginer Member

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    I've only messed around a bit in VX Ace and played FNaFB 2, so I guess I'll post what I hate in general in games.

    Bad Design, Poorly written characters, Game breaking Glitches...Basically Sonic 06 but worse.

    And also the crappy projects that people have to buy to play. I haven't encountered those, but I bet it's annoying.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2016
  5. ave36

    ave36 Veteran Veteran

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    Someone above mentioned Sephiroth rip-offs. I have to admit that during the initial stages of conceptualizing my game (Legend of Terra Firma), its big bad Reaves Gerrard was a Sephiroth rip-off. However, I realized it is bad and Reaves gradually developed his own schticks.

    First, I decided to introduce him as a hero and mentor figure and make him stay this way until the end of part 1. None of this broody menacing crap, he'll act as a charismatic leader and promise to save the world for everyone.

    Second, I wrote an in-world mythology and tied Reaves' goals and motivations with it so he's no longer a vaguely explained man in black who wants to do a vaguely explained apocalyptic calamity.

    Third, I changed his appearance so he no longer looks the part. I gave him a hair dye job and took away his coat. He still has the katana, however, it is required by the plot.

    Fourth, even in his true villain colors, Reaves should act in capacities Sephiroth never did. Commanding a huge army? Why the hell not?

    Thus, gradually, Legend of Terra Firma's big bad found his own personality and identity.
     
  6. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    Well, here's my list I suppose.
    • Crafting of pretty much any kind
    • Scores of missable content
    • Points of no return
    • Front view battles
    • Default battle system (as in, useless message spam in the upper-left corner)
    • Side view with slow, uninteresting animations
    • Terrible writing/grammar/spelling (hire a writer or translator please)
    • Characters chained to a single weapon type
    • Characters chained to a single element
    • Scrolling intro/etc text that can't be slowed because it goes too fast, or sped up because it goes to slow
    • Open world, because everyone sucks at making it work
    • The "choices matter" trope, because usually it's just missing a valuable item because I didn't choose the intended option
    • Amnesiac protagonists, because it's just lazy writing
    • Overly-elaborate custom menus/huds that fail in terms of functionality and intuitiveness just to be "unique"
    • Protagonists who try too hard to act like Cloud or Squall, but manage to be even more dislikeable
    • "Guys kick ass, girls heal and support" or something along those lines
    Whew, I think that's it. :D

    In terms of other things, I'm actually pretty forgiving of RTP and other straight-out-of-the-box things. They may not make a game any better, but the things listed above (in my opinion) can actually make a game worse, and they seem to be pretty common in RM games.
     
  7. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    Wow, talk about an old thread. Necro much? :)

    Here's some new ones:
    -ATB systems. Sorry but I find they are just wait wait wait...oh, it's finally my turn.
    -ATB systems with no option to set it to pause when it is my turn. Who really wants to race through your 30 skills to find the right one while the enemy is wailing on you?
    -Boss fights that take longer to attempt 1x than it takes to watch the entire movie Titanic due to HP bloat.
    -Level scaling. Enough said.
    -Side view being put in your game just because you think it is the holy grail of battle systems. Too many misuse side view and turn it into watch your character SLOWLY walk up and attack, then SLOWLY walk back again. Gets old very quickly.
    -Ridiculous high resolutions but same size text as usual. No point in showing me all that space if I gotta squint to read your text.
    -Long animations. Don't make them so long I can read a book while playing your game.
    -Porn.
    -Pokeman clones. I've never understood the appeal of Pokeman in the first place, and every time I see a clone of it I just cringe. Come up with your own world at least please?
    -Clone of system from popular game x. I have a feeling in about 2 - 3 years or so I'll be tired of the Octopath Traveler battle system in RPGMaker.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
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  8. Benny Jackdaw

    Benny Jackdaw Ratty! Veteran

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    There are two things I really do not want in games.

    One thing, the evil dragon God Trope has been done to death. Hack, every game these days seems to have dragons in them, and they are usually generic entities of evil. Sometimes games will try and subvert this by making certain dragons good, but I rarely see Games where I'm not worried they will go against the subversion and make all their good dragons evil or Kill Them All.

    Elves, dwarves, nekomimi characters and any kind of human with insert random animal body part here type species are the most unimaginative kinds of races you could add to your game. I want to learn of species that are truly out-of-this-world. Some say that species are made to resemble humans to make them more relatable, but it just me some more bland and uninteresting. Even though I personally like anthro characters, even they seem kind of easy.

    Also, the pure and Noble hunter character. It always feels like hunters in media are Mary sues. It also feels like they are there just to push an agenda. I'm sure that's not how other people feel, but as someone who is constantly having hunting shoved down his throat, that's how I feel.


    That is earthquake Warriors RPG in a nutshell.
     
  9. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    A nice thread I never knew the existence. I'm pretty much able to suck everything because I accepted it's RM game. I play RM game because it's RM game. But one thing that always bothers me is default animation.
     
  10. Hermoni

    Hermoni Villager Member

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    I'm tired to all the time see unchanged UI that came from any popular script/plugging that we can customize.
    That and the 36 000 "activities" like fishing, forge, farming, reputation, "true life bar"(sims_like), lock picking (hello skyrim), etc... that are there only cause "HEY ! That's so cool script/plugin ! I need to put it in my project just cause that's so coool".

    That's the worst things for me (even a full RTP game is ok for me, even if I'm tired to see MV characters)
     
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  11. Aesica

    Aesica undefined Veteran

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    As a big fan of ATB systems when done correctly I feel like I need to chime in on this. ATB systems are pretty much like any other battle system--they can be great or they can be terrible depending on how much thought and effort the developer puts into them. And honestly, I always kind of disliked how most FF games handled it, where time would keep ticking until you quickly swapped into the item or spell menu to think out your next action. If there was no "wait" mode at all, then I just hated it. The quick-action selection mechanic just isn't suitable for the classic-style RPG, however the progression of time (the real selling point of ATB ) is. It gives the agility/speed stat more value than just "maybe I get to act first every turn" because instead, it becomes "I can act more often overall." It gives value to the speed of a skill, too. If Cure is a weak heal, but instant while Curaja takes a long time to cast, there are situations when I might want to use Cure over Curaja that would almost never come up during a standard turn-based battle.

    Generally, slow-ticking ATB systems are made that way to compensate for the scramble to select the right skill or spell, and I agree, it's lame to have to wait an eternity for things to happen. My approach to ATB has been to pause the timer when the actor takes an action, as well as during attacks/animations, and to quickly zip through the dead time so the player isn't falling asleep while they watch gauges slowly fill up. The result is something where the player, in between attack animations (which I also like to keep short), is almost always engaged in decision-making until the battle is over.

    Even though I'm a huge proponent of side view over front view, I agree. People using side view need to learn how to action sequence properly or otherwise get things moving faster. When making skills for my game, I've found that:
    1. Not every physical attack skill really needs the player to walk up to the enemy, swing, then walk back. A few FFT-style "lightning stab" style abilities are just fine (as in, take normal step forward, swing sword, do animation on target(s), done)
    2. The yanfly movement speed defaults are pretty bad and should be avoided. I think it's something like 60 for movement, which is horrible. I stick to 10-15 to make everything feel a lot snappier, so something like: move user: target, front base, 15
    3. If using yanfly's selection control (or is it target core?) to allow single target spells to strike 1 target or all targets, just...remove the "wait for animation" action sequence. This will result in rapid strikes on each enemy as the player steps back and the next thing happens, rather than zap...wait...zap...wait...zap...wait, etc. Same goes for the multiple hit type abilities. (4 random targets, etc)
     
  12. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Aesica : Personally I prefer CTB over ATB. CTB still gives you the value of your speed but without the wait until someone's bar is full. Seems like a happy compromise to me.

    But yes, just like anything it can be used for good or for bad. That's what I was getting at more in my post is there is no perfect system or method, it all comes down to implementation. In fact, I've seen wonderful remakes of popular games done with ASCII graphics. And I've seen terrible remakes of popular games too.
     
  13. somenick

    somenick Veteran Veteran

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    One thing I dislike are the 'black, bottomless pits' on maps. For some reason I think they clash with the rest of the graphics. I have even seen large black bottomless areas in outside areas in broad daylight in some games / screenshots which make even less sense and clash even more with the rest of the images. It is probably just me but these sort of creep me out.

    On an unrelated note, early Zelda games annoyed me because of these. Its probably just me, but yeah...
     
  14. jonthefox

    jonthefox Veteran Veteran

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    I've got two big things that turn me off which I find to be common in rpg maker games.

    1. Battle systems where the characters and enemies don't have a clear, clean motion or visual indicator to show that it's their action, or even worse, when you can't even see the party characters (frontview systems are the biggest offender of this). My favorite battle systems are always ones where the characters and battlers actually walk up and wack their target - just feels 100x better for me than anything else.

    2. Lazy battler choices. I don't mind the RTP at all, but just a few simple edits and recolors can go a LONG way to making the enemy feel unique and/or appropriate for the scenario. Or when game devs mix and match battlers of different styles and things feel so jarring. The biggest offender of this is when people use both the MV RTP and Aekashic's battlers - they don't go together.
     
  15. Frogboy

    Frogboy I'm not weak to fire Veteran

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    Here's one that bugs me as it's common with most 2D RPGs. Overly-balanced random encounters. This also applies to on-screen trash mobs as well. In most cases, if I fight a battle or two in an area and don't have any problems, I pretty much know that I can safely walk around as much as I want without worry. It takes the feeling of danger out of adventuring once I realize that a tough monster isn't ever going to come out of nowhere and rough me up a bit.

    One of the things I loved about the original Final Fantasy and the NES Dragon Warriors was the unpredictable nature of random encounters. You're sitting there crushing Imps and Grimps when all of a sudden, four Mad Ponies pops up and start hammering on you. I never felt safe unless I was in an area that I had already conquered.
     
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  16. SolonWise

    SolonWise The Lonely Maker Veteran

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    Well, I really don't care about default assets, default battle system, default musics and sounds... I even don't care about a simple or cliche plot. What I'm really tired of seen is unfinished projects, I mean, without ANY polishment. Even small demos have this issue. Sometimes I wonder if the author was in a hurry to release the game.
     
  17. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Frogboy : A lot of earlier games have the opposite problem where the enemy doesn't just rough you up, it eats you for dinner and guess what...you haven't saved in 40 minutes but due to bad RNG you got that fight and could not run away so now you must do those last 40 minutes over and over again.

    If a game did that to me now I'd uninstall and/or refund it honestly.

    More items for my list:
    -Bad RNG that results in you praying to the RNGGoddess to progress in the game. This is usually common when a bad random battle messes you over and you must run away now or else it is go back to the beginning, and is even worse if you...
    -Restricting when I can save. Save game restrictions were originally in games due to disc space issues and/or because the medium used for storage didn't allow us to write on it so we had to use passwords.
    -Releasing a game with poor playtesting. The AAA industry is not a good influence here honestly due to the patch culture and I've played some AAA games I'm sure had no QA team as I found more bugs in 5 minutes of playtime than I do at our local lake on a hot and muggy summer day. But please don't imitate them and test your game.
    -Not knowing your audience for your game. I hate to say it but some of the 'advice' I've seen in this thread would result in your game flopping if you made a game on Steam and released it that way (I base this on my observations on Steam + a few conversations with commercial devs on there).

    Edit: Got one more after watching a few let's plays videos:
    -Making it so that without light it is utter darkness. I grew up outside the city with no streetlights and you can see a LOT more at night without lights than most devs want to let you see. Unless your game is deep in the heart of a cave where no light gets to it, there is always some natural light (and yes, even in a forest or house, though it is less than say in the street) and you can see well enough to still make your way around.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
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  18. Frogboy

    Frogboy I'm not weak to fire Veteran

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    @bgillisp
    See, I liked that for the most part. It created tension, put me in the game. Later 16-bit Final Fantasy games offered almost no challenge or resource drain outside of boss fights. They would have been quite boring if it weren't for the massive scope and lots of story to break up the monotony. The RPGs I played before Dragon Warrior and the original Final Fantasy could be quite rediculous in difficulty, though. I never did beat Curse of the Azure Bonds.
     
  19. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Frogboy : Depends. It *can* work, but you will need to either be able to save anywhere, or escape as needed (or at least have an item or skill to let you escape). Lack of all of those it is just what tvtropes calls pray to the RNGGoodess as it is now up to the holy RNG if you even get through the area or not. No player skill is going to save you.

    BTW, I know what you mean on the Gold Box games, but those you could save anywhere which helped. And yes they can be difficult, though some if it was bad communication with players who didn't know the D and D rules in the Pool of Radiance Manual. For instance, I chose to have a Halfling fighter in my party, unaware it capped at level 4. Or when I put the difficulty on the hardest by accident and wondered why all those Dragons were eating my party for dinner, unaware as to what the default setting was supposed to be. Or when I had to make do with a 12 INT mage as the earlier manuals didn't tell you that you HAD to have a certain level of INT to get high level spells. So some of the difficulty is also poor communication with the player on things too (it wasn't until Curse of Azure Bonds I was aware of the level caps as they weren't listed in my Pool of Radiance Manual, and Secret of the Silver Blades was the first to list INT and WIS requirements).
     
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  20. Cythera

    Cythera Villager Member

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    I'd like to toss in my two cents here :) Pardons if they've been mentioned already.
    - Stat-crazy enemies. No, they are not difficult. It is false difficulty if the enemy has X10 my stats. It is frustrating and does not equate "hard". I adore difficult games, but when battles are long due to massive HP pools and nothing else, or I'm getting one-shot because of a crazy high enemy attack value, I'm out. My personal solution: make them smart enemies, not stat-crazy.
    - Villains with vague motives and no personality. Please, please, flesh out the antagonist! Even if it's a cliché backstory, that's better to me than a villain who wants to kill the king/take over the world/etc etc "just 'cause".
    - Healer/White Mage/Priest class limitations. Great, my party can heal. Ooh, maybe they can even get some buffs! Important: very. Perhaps this class even has a debuff or two. But why stick to the healer trope? I want a healer that can do more - be it damage or crowd control or something creative! I suppose, in a roundabout way, I'm saying I'm tired of the healer class trope - and how insignificant they typically are when I'm NOT dying.
    Whoops, I guess that makes three cents. Ah, well, figure of speech!
     
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