What are your red flags?

[woootbm]

When it comes to buying RPG Maker games on Steam (or where ever), or even downloading free ones sometimes, I have certain red flags. You know, things in the description or screenshots that immediately make me think, "Eep! Not for me!" or worse. 

We all know some of the obvious red flags like horrendously bad grammar/spelling, but what are some of the other ones people may not realize come across as off-putting? I thought it might be helpful to have a list of obscure items so that we can all learn to show off our work more effectively 

So, as the title asks: what are your red flags? Also, try to explain why it's a red flag to you if it's a little confusing.

Here are a couple of mine:

-I personally am very wary of any game that advertises comedy heavily. Like the Aveyond games have that slogan, "You will laugh OR ELSE!" In my experience this means puns, pop-culture references, and cutesy nonsense. And those things happen CONSTANTLY and get in your face (haven't played the Aveyond games so I wouldn't actually know).

-When a game says it's "inspired" by Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy <7, or whatever. Not an automatic deal breaker. More of an eyeroll since RPG Maker makes 16-bit(ish) RPG's by default, you know?

-Short descriptions. If the fancy webpage, store page, or Greenlight page you made for your game is only two sentences in its entirety I generally assume you put just as much effort into the game itself.

 

[Tai_MT]

My red flags?

1.  If the title screen is unreadable in one way or another.  If the title of the game is a made-up word or a super obscure word that is hard to pronounce or even understand (or has a made-up pronunciation).  Thin red text in weird jagged lines on black is difficult to read (I know one game that did this, so it's my example) is another of those "unreadable" things.  I always know I'm in for a pretty dull ride if the title and title screen are difficult to decipher.

2.  Graphics look overly stylized.  I'm all for fantastic graphics, but often I run into "okay, they spent all the time and money on graphics, so what did they skimp on?".  Usually, it's the story/characters that have suffered, though it can also be that everything looks pretty and it's just a stock fighting system.

3.  Vague descriptions.  A proper description sets up the game and what to expect to be playing.  Things like, "A funny adventure" don't tell me anything.  Especially since humor is subjective personal opinion.  Likewise, "action packed!" and other such phrases that are vague put red flags up.  Likewise, "deep levels of customization" send red flags as well.  Ideally, a game should be trying to sell itself on the experience and not its in-game features.  I get wary when it starts advertising its features as a good reason to play a game.  I don't play an RPG because it has "customization" and "crafting" and anything else.  I'm playing an RPG because I want a good story.  If the focus of the description is on anything except an interesting or unique story, red flags swing up all over the place.

4.  Generic Storylines.  "You are a hero, go kill the bad guy and rescue the princess to save the world!"  I don't mind if that's the storyline...  If it's presented well, or even in a new way.  I choose books, anime, and even TV series this way as well.  I want to see new things, or old things tackled in new ways.  I don't want to play the same game as everyone else, I want to play something few people have played.  I enjoy new experiences.  Towards this end, I like the concept and writing of "You Are Not The Hero" even though I'm not a fan of the gameplay.  I think it is altogether an interesting and fun concept with (in my opinion) some really good and solid writing.  I don't want to give examples of "bad games", because I think it would be unfair to those who made those games, but an example of a game that meets my "new experience" criteria should be okay here.

5.  Poor grammar and spelling.  I will, usually, forgive a bit of poor grammar and spelling.  I used to play fan translated games on emulators, and I do watch fan translated anime, so I am used to a fair measure of bad grammar and even spelling.  It's especially expected if it's from someone who doesn't have English as their first language.  However, I at least expect it to make some kind of semblance of sense.  If the grammar and spelling are so bad that I can't understand what is going on, it's going to drag the game to grinding halt for me.  Generally, it's a red flag for the game if we can't get through the first 10 sentences of dialogue without a mistake in every single one of those sentences.  I'm lenient, but only to a point.

6.  Greenlight.  I've been burned by Greenlight a few times.  I'm always skeptical when a game is greenlit.  Especially considering the quality of games (and not just RPG Maker games) that come out of Steam Greenlight.  There are exceptions to this rule, of course, but it is a pretty big red flag for me.

7.  Overly strange openings.  I know a lot of people like to start the player "in the middle of the story", but it's not something I enjoy mucking around with.  Presumably, a good opening starts with fairly normal events to establish what is "the norm" for the world we are interacting with, and then strange things happen.  Too many games open with "strange things happen" without establishing any kind of normalcy for the world we're in.  How do I know getting sucked into a random portal in the park isn't something that happens every day?  How do I know visions aren't just something people experience in this world?  A lot of more recent anime have this problem as well.  For me, it doesn't bode well.  It doesn't usually pay off as a "good experience".  You have to have some set-up, otherwise there's no context for the initial plot.

8.  "Artsy" games.  This ranges from games that beat you in the face with their metaphors or symbolism and try to be as "artsy" as possible.  I don't mean "look good" either.  I mean, being obtuse, abstract, and deliberately vague so as to appear as some sort of "artistic game".  Games like "Dear Esther" fall into this category for me, as an example (It isn't RPG Maker, and I'm not fond of using actual RPG Maker examples for bad things, because it feels sort of like character assassination when the criticism wasn't actually asked for by the creator.  However, games that actually made money that aren't RPG Maker...  I consider that fair game for examples.  Especially if they're on Steam.).  I do not mind a game that has artistic value and merit in it.  I mind when the entire point of the game is to be artistically valued and have artistic merit.  Usually, it leads to a lot of navel gazing, exposition, and forced symbolism.  What I mean is, it typically doesn't leave a player to come to their own conclusions and ideas and generally leads them around by the nose as if they were a dog and the creator were afraid the player may urinate on the carpet if they were left to think for themselves.  It's a red flag for me.

That's all I got for now.  I realize that's pretty long, but I hope I explained myself well.

 

[NPC]

-Screenshots of a vast space.

Even w/ AAA games, I wanna see the good stuff, not an endless open space! Or you could just be a bad mapper- either way, it's bad.

 

[Zevia]

The first thing I usually do is skip into the screenshots and video sections and look for what I think the gameplay will be like, especially when it comes to combat (if there is any). I feel like there are a lot of people who probably have good stories, or are fantastic with art, or can produce great music (or have good resources for any/all three) - but the battle system hasn't really been touched much. If I get the feeling it's going to be a lot of basic attack-spamming, or every skill is basically "this is fire damage, this is ice damage, this is thunder damage" without any very interesting ways to interact, then I'm always wary to really give it a go.

Basically, if it looks like the battles will end up being an annoyance, it's a red flag.

Anything that advertises a lot of playtime does the same - "50 hours of gameplay!" Unless I see it's someone who suggests they've had years to work on the project, or it's a big group effort, or something like that, then all it suggests to me is that the content will be very bare-bones and incredibly boring.

I agree with the comedy thing, too. It reminds me of this webcomic:

Spoiler

Breaking the 4th wall, especially, is a done-to-death bit that tends to turn me off games.

 

[stupid enough to like FF13]

There's one simple word (and it's not just RPG Maker games this applies to) that turns me off in a description: "difficult". There are games that try to hype up their "challenge" and "difficulty", and without fail I find that:

a.) the game is difficult solely because of poor/faulty gameplay mechanics (in particular, when mere luck is a major factor in gameplay) or poor/faulty controls;

b.) the game is difficult only because it adequately fails to let the player learn about the gameplay, and once the player is able to figure things out, the game becomes a complete and easily-cheesed cakewalk; or

c.) the game isn't difficult at all in the first place, just a tedious chore.

 

[Simon D. Aelsi]

Any game that has the words "Difficult" and "challenging" like Lily said.

Also, poorly drawn artwork.  I couldn't care less if it's RTP.  If I'm gonna spend my hard-earned money on your game, I'd best get my money's worth!

Sloppy or messy screenshots.  These people are supposed to be PROFESSIONALS.  The world of gamedev and games is SERIOUSLY aggressive, and I as a customer of RPG Maker games will be extremely picky, ruthless, and choosy when it comes to what I want.

JRPGs.   Overdone, overcooked. Tired and old. I need fresh and new ideas. If I wanna buy a JRPG, I'll do it from the big boys, thanks.

That's it from me, for now.

 

[Uzuki]

For me it's two things: Shadows and Descriptions. By shadows I mean the ones that are auto filled when you make a wall. I know it's rude to say it like this, but if your screenshot is of a room inside a building and there are shadows from the walls I become EXTREMELY cautious of the game. For me that says the dev didn't even double check to make sure everything looks ok and flows together. For the descriptions like everyone before me has said plus the words "Inspired" or "Based from". If I see a description with "Inspired By classic RPGs like Final Fantasy III (They mean VI), Chrono Trigger, and Earthbound" once again I become hostile. That's one of the first things you learn in marketing: NEVER mention a direct rival's product name when describing yours. It instantly turns self aware customers off from buying your game and makes others want to play the games your mentioning. So when they're playing your game they're constantly comparing your game to one that they probably have fonder memories of and it makes your game look like crap. 

 

[TheOriginalFive]

I'm wary about games that use fanservice as a crutch. By that, I mean making every single character dress only in underwear despite their character and situation deciding otherwise. Few games can use fanservice and not come off as if a cabaret just set up in town.

Also, pixel sprites that look like not much effort was put in them. The kinds that look like flat shapes and don't mesh well with the rest of the game style. Unless the entire game is meant to look flat.

 

[Valkyriet]

A few things :

1. Most of the time, I just look at a game's screenshots and overview, and if it doesn't interest me enough, I don't play it. I think personal like and dislikes have a significant role to play in helping a person choose a game. For example, as you stated, you haven't played Aveyond because it didn't seem appealing to you. I, on the other hand, am a sort of loyal fan of the series. I think the primary reason for this is that it was the first RPG I ever played, and loved.

[Also not sure where you read that slogan o.o I haven't come across it so far]

2. Too many reference-based dialogues are off-putting for me as well. To state the obvious, most of the time I don't understand the reference and it makes me feel like an ignorant bum. A few obvious references are okay, but quoting a character from a Paulo Coelho book or a TV Series not many people watch can be unsettling.

3. Maps. It's probably common to most people to like games which are visually appealing as well. Graphics don't necessarily need to be Rank A, but well-designed and hard-to-get-lost-in maps can automatically rake in favor points. Since I've also given mapping a try, I kind of know how difficult it is to create a likable map. Therefore, much respect for those who take the trouble of creating proper maps for their games.

4. Battles. Not much to say here except that it's extremely frustration to not have a difficulty setting and then be forced to encounter multiple and/or difficult enemies in a game. I tend to focus more on story progression/quests than battles. Additionally, the invisible enemies feature belongs in the pits of Tartarus, imo.

5. Character personality/development. Of course, you may not get to make a judgement based on this until you have played quite a bit into the game. However, shallow/cliche character personalities aren't very appealing to me. They need not necessarily make me drop the game, but it can turn brownie points stale. It's nice to see at least a few of the playable characters have a semblance of a well-developed personality, whether good or evil.

 

[Milennin]

I've never really given this much thought, so this will be interesting...

-Badly used RTP graphics. I don't mind RTP too much (but I'll admit I'm not a fan of the VX Ace RTP), but I know to avoid a game if screenshots show bad mapping. Things like using the wrong tiles in places, empty spaces, weird auto-shadows etc.

-On the other hand, screenshots that show images of your game loaded with stuff everywhere (parallax'd of course), gratuitous amounts of bloom or lighting effects all over the place are also a red flag for me. Gives a feeling the developer spent more time trying to make maps look pretty, or to make them stand out, than actual designing them well from a gameplay perspective.

-Any kind of trailer. Trailers simply do not work for RPG Maker games, with maybe a few rare exceptions. They're either way too try-hard to be professional looking, or they're just random shots of your game (usually with boring dialogue, too, lol).

-Long back stories in the description. These usually begin with a line such as "1000 years ago..." or "The world used to be ruled by --- until..." and I'm like "NOPE". These are the kind of games that often start out with an information dump right at the start, and it's usually the exact same text they used in their description.

-When the main characters are all teenagers and the story is about saving the world from total destruction.

-Fan games.

-50 hour long games. No, I don't want to grind for 30 hours, wander around aimlessly for another 10 hours, do boring fetch quests for 5 hours and spend the remaining 5 hours on the main story.

-Feature loaded games. When I see a game has a fishing mini-game, cooking skills, crafting, alchemy, shopkeeping, customisable home-base, 25+ playable characters and 4 difficulty settings for combat it's not hard to expect all those features are all half assed, and only there so you can fill up your list of features in the game's description.

-Agree with what has been said about games that claim to be funny. This usually means referencing popular stuff (or worse) using memes and plenty of 4th wall breaking. Or in other words, people want to make something funny, but can't come up with jokes of their own.

-Romance. This makes red flags appear because very few people have the writing skills to make this work without making people cringe.

-RTP combat. I'll admit right away, if your game doesn't show any signs of customised combat, I'll assume you didn't put any effort into it.

-Lack of information or very vague information. Red flags appear when the developer doesn't seem to care enough to want to convince me to play their game or (even worse) they couldn't think of any reasons.

 

[woootbm]

For example, as you stated, you haven't played Aveyond because it didn't seem appealing to you. I, on the other hand, am a sort of loyal fan of the series. I think the primary reason for this is that it was the first RPG I ever played, and loved.

[Also not sure where you read that slogan o.o I haven't come across it so far]

I found the quote:

"HUMOR. Lots of it. Humor is the core of Aveyond. You will laugh... or else!"

On their Steam page under Features: http://store.steampowered.com/app/272010/

Again, I haven't played the game so I absolutely cannot form an accurate opinion on the actual content. And I've seen this kind of boasting on other games, but the wording here just really stuck to me. Like, "Or else what? Or else I don't play the game at all?"

Some good stuff guys. I really agree with the overselling of difficulty-as-a-feature and gameplay hours points!   

 

[Euphony]

Inconsistent graphics. Admit it, you've all encountered that game that looks like the creator gathered every resource from every artist in the community and tried to cram them into a single game. Of course, this was way more common in the 2k3 and XP eras when pixeling was the norm and rips were rampant. Now that painterly is the dominant style, mixing and matching works a little better, but occasionally you still come across a game that looks like a virtual collage. Instantly off-putting to me.

I do agree to some extent about the comedy thing. If you want to make a comedic game, go for it, but personally I'd rather play a serious game with some comedic moments scattered throughout than a game that's trying to be funny all the time. It's kind of like a person who swears constantly versus one who only swears occasionally. When the one who rarely swears suddenly drops an f-bomb, it has more impact.

 

[Zevia]

-Feature loaded games. When I see a game has a fishing mini-game, cooking skills, crafting, alchemy, shopkeeping, customisable home-base, 25+ playable characters and 4 difficulty settings for combat it's not hard to expect all those features are all half assed, and only there so you can fill up your list of features in the game's description.

Just want to second this. This seems to be a big pitfall for the indie game community in general, not just for RM games. "Come play my roguelike tower defense FPS RPG farm sim!" What? Why don't you just focus on one type of game and make that really good?

 

[NPC]

When the one who rarely swears suddenly drops an f-bomb, it has more impact.

This can also drive away players if it's too out of character and out of place. I wouldn't want my cute cat character adventuring wih me to suddenly stop and drop an f-bomb because the creator thought the mood was right. 

 

[Niten Ichi Ryu]

Agreed on the feature clogging problem.

There are so  many games that look like the Dev filled his script basket at the market, and then threw all in a pot to make a soup.

that does not mean that features would be badly implemented, most often it's actually well made, but is it useful? does it have a justification in terms of gameplay, story or settings?

For instance, I pondered for a while if I needed a Crafting system, because let's face it, there are scripts, and I wanted one, but was it bringing a plus?

In the end it made me reconsider the availability of gear and rethink the way to handle shops and even characters as some crafting options would become available only after obtaining certain  party NPC.

Regarding NPCs, although I do love Suikoden to die, large numbers of playable character can be off putting, as often they might lack characterization or just be a gimmick.

 

[Ms Littlefish]

• Final Fantasy inspired!
• Zo muh Gawd, so many hilarious Easter Eggs
• You guys, it's so retro!

The "retro" thing is particularly for me. I feel like many games do that as a way to let someone else's work do all the work or excuse lack of creativity on "well, that's how old games did it." Not all games aged well. If you do "retro" inspiration make sure to actually update it.

 

[Schlangan]

This topic is kind of worrying me, especially on the graphics and playtime points.


Some games may have very wonderful graphics and be very well thought and enjoyable, but you would skip them because they seems too focused on the graphics ? A tad sad for the efforts that has been put into those games.


As for the length, I wonder. My game for example will be very long, but there is no need for grinding, you progress through a lengthy story, that cannot be told faster, or it would seem half-assed. In that case is it bad to create a long game ?

 

[Niten Ichi Ryu]

@Schlangan

I don't think the message here says: shun the long games or shun the beautiful games, it's about what is off putting when buying/considering a RM game.

If you have a full fledged expanded detailed story, make it a sell point, but if you have 5 hours of story and 25h of grindfest, don't boast of the length of your game as a plus. Really, it's about the story and experience, not the playtime.

Same way, a game would not be triggering red flags if it was looking good, but it would if it was nothing else than looking good (Eg beautiful screenshots and graphic, but out of the box mechanics only)

 

[Schlangan]

I just wanted to make sure, since sometimes the descriptions do not specify whether the playtime will be a detailed story or grinding. I feared that all lengthy games would be categorized as such because of those games. Your answer kind of reassure me already ^^

 

[cabfe]

I agree with a lot of the red flags here.

My part:

I flee any game that puts the accent on the combat in general, real time combat systems in particular. I find no fun in being under stress.

Bad mapping, especially a big, empty room. Learn your basics!

Not really a red flag, but I'm very wary when a game as too good graphics. Often, it's just a sign that the dev has spent all his time on graphics and neglected to make a proper game with them. Exceptions are welcome though.

Retro. I *can* play them but I'm not a fan, especially since it brings no nostalgia tears to me. But if used properly, it can work great. However, if you're making a retro game for the sake of it, I'll pass.