What are your red flags?

Tai_MT

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@kjsp

Well, most of the arguments and debates I've seen about "why game on a PC?" is like 90% "better graphics than consoles" and that other 10% being something like "computers can do more than games" and "games on PC can be modded".  This is, of course, personal experience, so others may have different numbers than me.  It's just what I've encountered the most.  I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with the sentiment, I'm merely pointing out that it's one of the reasons AAA titles these days are more focused on their games "looking good" than any other feature they have.  Of course, this doesn't apply to all AAA games, and it doesn't really apply to Indie games.  It's the Hi-Def argument, the 60 fps argument, then 1080p argument, etcetera.  Gamers demand those things, so that's primarily what they're getting, even in their advertising (E3, PAX, reveal trailers, etcetera).  A prime example of the latest batch of gamers complaining about "poor quality" is what people were saying about Fallout 4.  People who didn't care what it played like, what it might be like, whether it might even be fun or interesting...  Nope, they were concerned with the fact that it "didn't look as good as it could".  Which, I find odd, but it is what it is.

Graphics should be pretty.  They should not be your main selling point.  I red flag if your graphics are your main selling point.  I red flag on this for two reasons.  1.  If you're promoting your graphics above anything else, you typically don't have much else going on with your game, which essentially makes your game an interactive screen saver.  Pretty to look at, boring to mess with.  2.  I typically only notice really cool graphics stuff in the first 3 hours of gameplay.  After that, I'm already desensitized to the graphics and quit noticing how "high fidelity" they are or "realistic looking".  Heck, 3 hours into Windwaker and I stopped even noticing the game was cell-shaded.  Took me less than 30 minutes into the original Crackdown to quit noticing that was cell-shaded as well.  Got through the first rain storm in Watch_Dogs and and never even noticed the water effects again.  I mean, that just is what it is.  By the time I'm engrossed in the game, the graphics no longer matter so much and I'm not even noticing them at all (barring weird graphics breaks or inconsistencies).​  I mean, most people even forget that Halo 1 had PARTICLE EFFECTS, which was something relatively new at the time of its release...  And at the time, they were pretty good looking.  You forgot, because you quit noticing that at some point during gameplay.
 

I'm sure there are other reasons to game on a PC than "it has better graphics", it's just that your own opinion is something I don't encounter very often (if at all, which is weird).  Perhaps we just travel in different circles?

@AwesomeCool

I'm not even sure how you can tell if a game is running at 30 FPS or 60 FPS.  As long as it doesn't "hiccup" or "slow down", I can't really tell the difference.  It honestly looks exactly the same to me, and I couldn't tell you just by looking at footage, which is which.  Now, if I, an average gamer, can't tell the difference...  Do you think other average gamers could?  I guess if it's running 60 FPS, the devs can get away with more "missing pieces of animation" because it's running so much faster (which means you might see less hiccups or slowdown as the system could probably just dump frames eating too much processing power), but if your 30 FPS game can't have as many "missing pieces of animation" because it runs at half the speed, then a game developer might have to resort to other interesting tricks to keep the game from "slow down" or "hiccups".  Which means, you could probably run the game on more platforms, but if you aren't clever about how you program it, it might chug a bit when you get too crazy.  I'm pretty sure there are fantastic running games out there that do 30 FPS and I'm pretty sure there are terrible running games out there that run on 60 FPS (I'd be willing to bet the new Batman game on PC is meant to run at 60 fps), just as the opposite is true.  I just could not honestly tell you the difference, unless you labeled them somehow, or told me outright.​
 

Demiqas

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That's kind of where I fall on the subject.  It isn't always true, to be sure, but a lot of the more recent AAA games (we're talking in the last 10 years or so... since the last generation of consoles) has kind of had this driving force of "maximize graphics to the exclusion of all else".  It doesn't help when the marketing campaigns and the PC gamers have basically hammered this point home with superb efficiency either.  What's the reason to buy a game on PC instead of console?  Graphics.  And modding.  Maybe.  Possibly.  If you care enough about the game after beating it, to mod it and play it ...
The reason most triple AAA games have "good graphics" (from my obversations, may I mention) as advertising point is because nowadays they're about making as much money in the shortest time frame possible. Making a good story takes time. Giving the illusion of "good graphics" doesn't. Ofcourse there are triple AAA games that still do it right from time to time, but most of it just happens to have gone to crap. 

If you actually play those games you'll notice they're filled with graphical bug after bug, artifacts, no optimisation whatsoever and then you notice even the graphics don't live up to what they advertised. You'll especially notice all of it if your PC is capable of running it @ 60 fps. This is what made me regret spending money on a gaming pc big time.

this doesn't really count for rpg maker games though
 

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@AwesomeCool

I'm not even sure how you can tell if a game is running at 30 FPS or 60 FPS.  As long as it doesn't "hiccup" or "slow down", I can't really tell the difference.  It honestly looks exactly the same to me, and I couldn't tell you just by looking at footage, which is which.  Now, if I, an average gamer, can't tell the difference...  Do you think other average gamers could?  I guess if it's running 60 FPS, the devs can get away with more "missing pieces of animation" because it's running so much faster (which means you might see less hiccups or slowdown as the system could probably just dump frames eating too much processing power), but if your 30 FPS game can't have as many "missing pieces of animation" because it runs at half the speed, then a game developer might have to resort to other interesting tricks to keep the game from "slow down" or "hiccups".  Which means, you could probably run the game on more platforms, but if you aren't clever about how you program it, it might chug a bit when you get too crazy.  I'm pretty sure there are fantastic running games out there that do 30 FPS and I'm pretty sure there are terrible running games out there that run on 60 FPS (I'd be willing to bet the new Batman game on PC is meant to run at 60 fps), just as the opposite is true.  I just could not honestly tell you the difference, unless you labeled them somehow, or told me outright.​
You can tell a game is running at 30fps if it feels less responsive. I play a ton of fighting games, and the standard is 60 frames per second, playing Jojo's Bizarre Adventure All Star battle, which runs at 30fps makes things harder to do. Basically you have half as many chances to input something each second. I also play vanguard princess which runs at 100 frames per second and it feels quite different than playing guilty gear. Basically, the more reflex based a game is the more frame rate matters.
 

Kes

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@Tai_MT

Please respect the OP's wishes about not turning this into a PC vs console argument.  I think we are all clear about your reasons for your personal red flag, so we can leave it.  Otherwise this thread will be derailed.

I would also suggest that this is not the place to discuss the overall failings of the AAA industry and our speculation of why that is.  Can we stick with the topic, which is what are your personal red flags.
 

Tai_MT

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Who is arguing PC vs Console?  I don't think I even implied one was better than another in any of my posts.  Gaming is gaming, who cares what you do it on?

But, if you would like me to not discuss AAA failings, that's fine.  That is pretty off topic, even if initially it wasn't.
 

I do, however, have another red flag to add to my list.  Season Passes or "Promises to Continuously Update" a game before it ever reaches "Finished Product" or "Sold Product".  I'm not a fan of the "sell you future content before the game is released" model as well as "sell you on the fact that the game will get better over time" model.  I don't favor this because any dev thinking so far ahead like that isn't really thinking about their present project yet.  Or, they have no idea what constitutes a "finished product" and the game may never be what they initially advertised.  It just screams "shady business practice" to me, and I'm a little wary of such things after some of the games I've picked up on Steam.
 

Matseb2611

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@Matseb: I'm very interested in why you think there's something wrong with an RM developer if he/she's made a longish game alone or with a small team.
Haven't been on this thread for a while, so I apologise for getting back to you so late about this, Luiishu535.

Actually I don't think there's anything wrong with the developer if the game is long. Just that from my personal experience, most of the longer RM games ended up boring me due to excessive padding and overly frequent (or even imbalanced) battles. I'd say this happens even with non-RM games too. I can enjoy longer games, but from what I noticed, there seem to be more tedious and heavily padded 30+ hour games than engaging ones (to me personally at least).

Also, none of my red flags are an instant turn off by themselves. Just that if I see too many of them, I'm less likely to have the incentive to try the game.
 

Niten Ichi Ryu

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There are indeed no reason to talk about consoles or even AAA games.

The thread is once again losing the plot as let' remember that OP's question was :

what are your red flags in terms of buying or downloading RM GAMES. And only RM games, not games in general.  
 

Luiishu535

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@Matseb:

I see what you mean. I don't think I've played an 30+ hour RM game other than my own game(s) and FF: Blackmoon Prophecy. I think a lot of it has to do with genre, if it's an RPG or straight up Dungeon Crawler for example. I did remember FF:BP having a point where most things felt like filler, mainly because you went away from the main goal for too long. As a developer, I believe it's harder to make longer games because the game needs to 'perfect' for a longer period of time than say the average 20-60 min game.

About length being a red flag: I understand that people have different experiences with longer RM games (or games in general). I will however consider everything else from the game's presentation to decide on downloading/buying the game. I might also read a review about the game if I'm planning on spending any money. Of course, this has to do with the fact that I've enjoyed the long games that I've played.
 

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