What can be done to make RMMZ to have overwhelming positive reviews?

DoubleX

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While RMMZ has already released for about a month, the reviews are still mixed(64% positive among 225 reviews), at least according to Steam(I failed to find any other quantified reviews of comparable significance yet).
Although the overall score shows a slight upward trend overall, it still doesn't seem to look good, at least compared to RMMV, where it received 108 positives and 27 negatives, netting a 80% score, with a much more obvious upward trend later on.

The most obvious thing that can be done for those having bought RMMZ via Steam, is to give a positive review with solid reasons, like what I've given quite a while ago :)
But, maybe more can be done to further boost the review scores legitimately, apart from another obvious thing that resource makers can continue to make more and more awesome resources for the community :D

I've also briefly checked the NEGATIVE REVIEWS FROM STEAM, and here are the summary of all the points I've collected(which is by no means exhaustive):
1. The base price of RMMZ is too expensive compared to what it added and improved over RMMV(But they'd be positive for RMMZ if there will be a big sale)
2. RMMZ isn't even RMMVA, but just RMMV 1.7, because everything "new" in RMMZ are already provided by plugins in RMMV
3. RMMZ improved too little from RMMV, meaning that the RM franchise has become trapped in the past
4. The 3D effekseer doesn't work well with the RMMZ animations, because it's a 2D engine
5. The RMMZ RTP is worse than that of RMMV(images are ugly, audios are unpleasant to listen to, etc), and the former isn't compatible with the latter
6. There are still some unnecessarily hardcoded assumptions, like the tileset size still being fixed to 48
7. RMMZ doesn't work well when the screen size isn't 816 * 624(1280 * 720 can already cause the side view battler sprites to be mis-positioned to the left of the screen), like, ugly scaling of battler sprites
8. The RMMZ character generator still sucks so hard that the generated adults look like kids
9. There's no way to make porting RMMV animations to RMMZ an easy, simple and small task, because of effekseer
10. RMMZ still doesn't make good use of multiple CPU cores nor the GPU, causing inferior performance even with the Pixi v5 upgrades and other performance optimizations over RMMV
11. RMMZ only lets you use 4 map layers, which is far from being enough
12. The hardcoded limit of 2000 items per database type isn't high enough
13. The sprites are still hardcoded to using 3 frame per action
14. There's no way to make exporting to mobile platforms an easy, simple and small task, when RMMZ is advertised for optimized for such platforms
15. Many features that are provided by RMMZ plugins should've been done by RMMZ itself
16. The audio loading still isn't optimized in RMMZ, causing large audio files to have too long to load(and this issue already exists in RMMV and is well-known by the community for years)
17. The amount of resources including by the RTP still isn't large enough, and should've been much, much larger
18. While this engine advertise itself as easy enough for a child, it's not the case when you've to learn effekseer, which is a must to use RMMZ
19. An exported project can be as big as way more than 200MB in RMMZ, while similar projects in RMMV would've been just around 50MB, and 50MB is already too much
20. Sometimes the engine can just suddenly crash, like when clicking edit on a show text event, causing unexpected loss of progresses
21. The default RMMZ JavaScript codebase is so poorly-documented that documentation there is effectively nonexistent
22. The RMMZ is obviously very, very unpolished and just rushed for launch, and the current state of RMMZ is clearly an incomplete product
23. In general, the RMMZ plugins aren't as generous as the RMMV counterparts, because of the pricing, terms of use, and source code accessibility, and RMMZ is nothing without plugins
24. Enemy skill animations aren't displayed in front view battles
25. The battler sprites aren't animated enough, and they're behaving like static ones(no shadows, floating motions, etc)
26. RMMZ just isn't worth it before it has as many plugins as that of RMMV
27. Many improvements in RMMZ should've been implemented in RMMV
28. RMMZ should let you use either effekseer or the traditional RMMV like animations
29. The RM franchise has been working in the form of buying the engine with the use of many scripts/plugins from the same scripter/plugin developer(without him/her RM would be nothing), with tweaks of those scripts/plugins made, and some other scripts/plugins(that are compatible to those made by that particular scripter/plugin developer) from the other scripters/plugin developers to make games, but this formula no longer works in RMMZ, because of the successor of that particular scripter/plugin developers start making closed-source plugins in RMMZ(and some of them are paid too)
Please note that I'm just trying to summarize the points I've collected from negative Steam reviews, and it has nothing to do with whether I agree or disagree with any of them.

So, I'd like to open this post to collect ideas on some possible ways to make RMMZ to have overwhelming positive reviews, and this doesn't have to be limited to Steam, because I think later on there will be some other quantified reviews of comparable significance ;)
Also, please focus on just suggesting WHAT CAN BE DONE EVEN BETTER AND MORE, instead of pointing fingers to the others, otherwise this post would risk from a medium for CONSTRUCTIVE DISCUSSIONS into a cesspool of destructive dramas, and I don't think this would do any good to anyone, so thanks for your understanding and cooperation :guffaw:
 

??????

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I left a positive review as well, but im guessing most people never got the wow that was promised.

MZ is, and should have been treated as, an update to MV (even if it was a pay to get update at a reasonable price).

I'm not really sure there is anything that can be done to change that at this point. Maybe the reviews will slowly get more positive once new users who have no previous rm stumble onto the program. Or once folks start getting it at a reduced price as part of some sale.
 

Dalph

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MV also started with mixed reviews (I was here in 2015) and people were complaining that it wasn't much different from ACE. The story always repeats itself.
I think eventually the review score of MZ will increase to at least "Positive".

There's no wow effect for MZ but the new inbuilt features are nice (the RTP tiles are outrageous though) and I'm sure more QoL improvements will be added through future updates. What they will add though? I don't know.
 

??????

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I personally loved mv when it launched. imo it was a huge improvement over ace just due to the fact it supported web and mobile. but it feels mz took a step back (at least on mobile) and threw in features no one asked for (such as elfkisser), and dropped really useful features (like the support for external tools) when there was no real reason to imo.

and yea, the rtp for mz is less than desirable.

Without being able to change any of that, I think the only thing that can really be done, is to encourage those who do like the program to leave a positive review, and hope that new customers arent as disappointed as those customers who were looking to 'upgrade'.
 

Skyroar

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I think MZ is lacking some kind of feature that would make games made within it fundamentally different than games made with MV.

In general, MZ is all about improving performance or improving the process of developing games with plenty of QoL changes. This means that working on MZ is far more convenient than working with MV, but the kind of game you would produce with it remaidns very similar in style.
 

AceOfAces_Mod

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For me, I think that MZ is more of an expansion to MV. There are some nice quality of life improvements. But there are missed opportunities and they've introduced a new workflow that can be cumbersome (not to mention, I had to re-compile Effekseer because the official builds wouldn't work. Not great impression, if you ask me). Another annoyance is that MZ is buggier than MV at the moment. Some MZ games would just straight up use software acceleration, breaking the engine apart. I can't load a new version of nwjs (or even a clean copy of the same version) because... something proprietary.

I think it's more of a weird release at the moment. If it had a bit more flexibility (editor plugins for example. Both official and community-made) and allowed the old animation system as an option, it would have been nice.
 

Maliki79

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I'm willing to give MZ the benefit of the doubt (while still saying those on the fence may want to wait for a sale.
My biggest issue is the state of plugin making currently.
With YF/VS locking down the functionality of their plugin suite even while holding it behind a paywall, making compatible/accompanying plugins is basically a pipe dream. This alone will likely sharply divide the community on those who will use VS stuff and very little else, or take that small to large decrease in quality to support the larger community.
Can't really blame MZ for this, but it will leave an negative impression regardless.

I dunno...
 

ImaginaryVillain

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Honestly I think the biggest problem is nobody is looking at MZ as doing anything unique to MZ. Everybody's just looking at it as a "speed improvement" over MV. But to get that "speed improvement" Kadokawa and the users expect all of MV's vast array of plugins to be remade for it. Which obviously will take awhile if it ever happens at all (yay drama).

Even I caught myself doing the same thing with the trial. It had nothing to do with MZ being a unique product, and everything to do with "How do I get back to square one?" for this magical "speed improvement". So I spent hours porting some of Quxios plugins, and others I needed to make my game run. I think at one point I thought to myself "Hey this new event list is handy." But aside from that MZ could have easily be confused for MV because it was again never about what MZ brought to the table.

So really to get positive reviews, MZ either needs to be updated to include some kind of wow factor that makes people think, "I want MZ because look what it can do!" Which I will press F to doubt. Or the much more likely, it goes on sale cheap enough that people feel the product value is worth that. MZ really doesn't have to impress people at $20-30 or as part of a Humble Bundle. Even I'd pick it up and give it a positive review then. :LZSwink:

TLDR: The problem will fix itself when it goes on sale for cheap enough.
 

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Without getting into my personal opinion on MZ or its flaws, this is the simple, pithy, but also true answer: To reduce the number of negative reviews, the developer should either work on addressing--one way or another, note that "addressing" is not necessarily "fixing" or "changing"--the complaints at issue in those reviews, or lower the price enough that the value of the product outweighs the negatives. In legal terms, they either "make their argument in court" (of public opinion) and prove their product is worth the asking price, or "settle" and take less payout. Fundamentally, I don't know that there's any better answer than that. (And as devs we should be aware of the reality of situations like these. We all want good reviews/sales, but they don't come without a product that meets the audience's expectations, pure and simple. Sometimes you just end up taking it on the chin.)

Other than that, there are marketing strategies that generate reviews, like sending free "review copies" to popular reviewers, but YMMV. Unless you're on the payroll, though, that's not really within your ability (or responsibility IMHO).
 

Soulrender

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I can let go with bugs, missing features (or not included), but the reviews could be also better if the price would be a bit lower, lets say... 39,99$ and more DLC releases (especialy tilesets and battle backgrounds).
 

??????

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There really is no speed improvement. I wish someone would take the time to do some real world benchmark comparisons, because from all my observations mz is dramatically slower.

For example, default mv title at 720p on my mobile - 50-60fps.
Default mz title at 720p on the same mobile, 13-16fps.


I think overally, mz was just a bit of a disappointment for most people that got caught up in the ridiculous hype that preceded it. :(
 

cayenne_spicy

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I honestly have barely even used it yet because I've been waiting to see if it has patches from the developers to resolve some of the noted issues, and I've been keeping an eye on the plugin drama situation to see how that plays out - I'm hesitant to commit to starting a game using one suite of plugins which may not end up compatible with others down the line, so I'm giving things a bit of time to see if competing options emerge (If I started now and then competing options did start showing up, it'd probably be a lot of work to convert from using one plugin set to another).

I'm also really unhappy with efekseer and didn't realize when I bought MZ that it didn't have an easy built-in option to do traditional effects. My game's going to be pixel art anyway so I really have no use for what that feature has to offer and it's an apparent hassle (from what I've read) to work around it and use traditional effects.

That said, there's a small saving grace in that my purchase of MZ came with MV, so... if another month or so goes by and MZ is still looking problematic, I may just do my game in MV instead.
 

ImaginaryVillain

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@?????? I did https://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?members/imaginaryvillain.143605/#profile-post-121308 and I mostly got a lot of hate for it. PMs, posts there, messages on Twitter... Listen, people didn't want to hear the truth. But that is why I put quotes around speed improvement. All of my testing (most of which I didn't post after the hate) showed MZ is significantly slower than MV.

That's not even including how horrible the performance was when I fixed some plugins and tested what I could of my game on it. Even with so many things disabled such as lighting, pixel movement, the interface and QSprite (because I hadn't bothered porting those plugins yet).. It was a slideshow.

//shrugs

Perhaps they will fix it later, I'm not certain. I will definitely need solid evidence of that before I'd consider buying it. I'm opting to give them at least the benefit of the doubt on that one, so I've been keeping tabs on it. But if they want to increase their Steam rating, they should definitely look into seriously optimizing MZ. Or in keeping with the thread's purpose, I guess the plugin devs could optimize it as well.
 

Kupotepo

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@ImaginaryVillain, do you think it is a local computer problem or the software itself? And what is the source of the problem do you think?

@?????? and @ImaginaryVillain if that is the case, you should put on the MZ feedback maybe the devs can see. That would be great for all. Thank you. I think the devs are more professional than us members refer to social media language usage.
 
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??????

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imo its probably a software issue with something in mz. I doubt its pixi 5 as pixi is notoriously fast and efficient, so its likey something the mz core does different that mv doesnt.

as a side note: I think it should be down to the rm devs to fix the issue with it. Why should we, as paying customers, have to go out of our way to fix the product we paid for? :p
 

taarna23

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Man. I feel like I'm the only one around here that likes a lot of MZ's tiles.

That said, mixed reviews on a tool like this are not especially uncommon. People speak the loudest when they're unhappy. The majority of people that hare happy with the program will never leave a review. Those happy with it will largely not say anything at all because content and using what they've got.
 

ImaginaryVillain

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@?????? Regrettably just as with MV, it seems Kadokawa relies on the community to make their product worth it, messed up as that is. Thankfully the community around this is fantastic. :LZSexcite:

@Kupotepo As my computer is far beyond the requirements of MZ, I would be surprised if that was the problem. I of course welcome anybody else's testing results on the matter. I do have two other weaker computers that if the trial works on them I could test with as well. But I wanted to give MZ the best fighting chance it had, so I used my gaming PC. :LZSwink:
 

Kupotepo

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@ImaginaryVillain, may you please upload your project like the itch.io or someplace? So we have the same project to make sure if the problem is reoccurring to everyone's computer. To check FPS work happens to other users, so the company will have to take seriously with more evidence that way.
@taarna23, that is true, but I do not leave the review for another reason: I am lazy if I write the review page will be the essay lol.

@Tsukihime, stopping us make smiles while we are trying to be serious. You are so correct that the heart of the problem of RPG Maker marketability for the commercial game creators.
 
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ImaginaryVillain

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Oh I deleted it awhile back since that post was from 19 days ago, and the trial ran out some time ago. But the first few posts described exactly what the test was. You should be able to use any pair of 60 frame animations or really just any large animations to duplicate the result without much effort.
 

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