What do you feel about fan service?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Pierman Walter, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. Pierman Walter

    Pierman Walter Chunk Monster Veteran

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    Filling the your game with sexy girls is a tried and true method of gaining attention, and it's good to have a lot of attractive characters, but at what point do you think it is too much?


    I've tried to make my characters attractive only when it makes sense, role-wise. For example, a professional gambler who hangs around casinos can afford to dress more provocatively than a politician. I am also trying to avoid making my female characters uniformly sexy by making some of them as monstrous and deformed as the male characters can be.
     
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  2. Milennin

    Milennin "With a bang and a boom!" Veteran

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    People are attracted by 48x48 chibi pixel sprites, lol?
     
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  3. kovak

    kovak Silverguard Veteran

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    i feel nothing

    15326415_10211628977744080_6674012980344403070_n.jpg
     
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  4. Andar

    Andar Veteran Veteran

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    it depends on how it is done.


    The story has to come first - I don't like useless fanservice, simply because it is useless (has nothing to do with nudity or whatever else).


    I often use an example from horror movies to explain my thoughts of this:


    In most classical Dracula movies, you don't see the vampires raping their victims before biting - but on the other hand I have yet to hear of a cannibal or zombie who eats clothes, so they have to get rid of them to get to the flesh.


    And there are a lot of other similiar cases - you don't travel through a wild forest in a chainmail bikini - you'll only get blisters all over your body from plant thorns, getting lashed by flexing branches and so on. But on the other hand an experienced amazon doesn't drop her weapon to cover her front when her armor gets damaged during a fight.


    If you're using fanservice as a believable part of the story, then it can be good - focus on believable here, don't go out of your way to search for reasons to include more fanservice. But don't be afraid of fanservice or nudity if the story demands it either.
     
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  5. Diretooth

    Diretooth Lv. 23 Werewolf Veteran

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    Fanservice has its place, but when (in anime) every movement has massive gainaxing or every scene has a panty shot, it gets annoying. In video games, boob physics are usually irritating for me because boobs don't act the way they're depicted in game. It's to the point where if I make 3d games and want boob physics, I'll have an actual woman with natural breasts act out some of the actions I want done so I can have it rendered realistically. That's assuming I do it at all. Another point of contention for me is the chainmail bikini trope. Massive protection, very little covering. Sense = none. Which, I do plan on having a game where there is armor that both covers minimally and completely, for both sexes, as a sort of social commentary plus fanservice.


    That being said, it also depends on the context. If we're talking high fantasy, royalty going out to actually do something, you're not going to see a queen decked out in nipple clips and metal panties. This calls to mind Ming Numara from Lost Odyssey. Her regalia is more revealing than you'd expect from the queen of a nation. This is a bit justified in that she's a 1000 year old immortal who can revive in battle automatically after a few turns. However, if it's the female leader of a tribe of early civilization people, less clothing is expected. This calls into mind Ayla from Chrono Trigger. She shows more skin than Marle, who is a rather rebellious princess who isn't decked out in a dress (Except one time, but she quickly tears the dress off and has her street clothes beneath them.) If I had a fantasy game set in a fantasy pastiche of the Victorian Era, if I were to include fanservice, it would be fanservice as applied to that time period.


    That also being said, not all fanservice needs to be TNA, thought that's most often the kind that's portrayed.
     
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  6. Plueschkatze

    Plueschkatze Veteran Veteran

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    I think there's nothing wrong with fanservice in general. A lot of sidequest and mechanics can be called "fanservice" as well. (Those where you can get so know more about YOUR favorite character, or mechanics like "bathhouse" or "setting in a bar with a character of your choice" etc.)


    I, as a girl, don't have a problem with sexy females. In fact, some of my favorite characters have a sexyness to them BUT not that way that they are reduced to their appeal and big boobs. They are tough ladies with a lot of personality. <3 And if you dislike these games/animes with all big boobs and nothing but strange comedy and fanservice and pantyshots you still can just not play/watch these, like me =3 


    And it's the same with the male characters, not everyone needs to be a bishonen with perfect skin and mid 20 to 30. But otome games mostly use these and normal jrpg/anime mostly use a protagonist who's still a teenager. For some characters this doesn't make sense! How can you be an experience swordsman (or whatever) and only be 18?! How can a 16 year old boy be physically stronger then a trained mid 20 to 30 year old one? ;) And so on, and so on.  


    Btw. I have a weak spot for fanservice as of extra scenes you can archive with your favorite characters. Small conversations, backstories, romance systems. <3 Kukuku.
     
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  7. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    Depends. If it is all there is to the game, then I'm not a fan of it. Or if the game seems obsessed with it I'll get upset with it. In fact, I stopped playing Hyperdimension Neptunia because it was so overdone with it that I had enough after about 2 hours of the game (plus the bad battle system. Only a % chance to use my skills? Give me a break!).


    However, if you do wish it to be in the game, make sure it makes sense. Females going to battle in bikinis because they are the best armor = no sense whatsoever. In fact, I do actually have a bikini in my game for armor, and it is the worst armor in the game (not the best). So you can still run around in it, but you will get exactly what you would if you were to really do that.
     
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  8. HexMozart88

    HexMozart88 The Master of Random Garbage Veteran

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    I also have bikini armour in my game, but it's very necessary, and it's explained. The kingdom where that particular girl comes from believe in that kind of thing. They believe in wearing less armour, and even though that character thinks that's the dumbest idea imaginable, she still has some aspect of it, though mind you, less of her stomach shows than most of her people. So, the entire point of that was: if it's explained/necessary, do it. Otherwise, leave it out. 


    Also, I really don't think fan service has to just apply to the body and the amount of clothing worn. The definition of fan service is anything done to please the audience. So, things like Ed and Winry becoming a couple in Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood would be considered fanservice. It was done to please the crowd because the creators knew that everyone wanted them to be a thing. 
     
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  9. Studio Blue

    Studio Blue Studio Blue Veteran

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    I think it really depends on the type of story you are trying to tell. If you are telling an anime stylized, over-the-top sort of adventure, a certain amount of what you call fan service is necessary. Just as if you were telling a story about a group of vampires running around New Orleans, having them with long hair and pretty looks would be in keeping with it.



    What is worthy of praise, however, is when you take the idea of fan service and turn it on its head. Have the pretty girl be fully clothed the entire time, and have her prettiness come out in things other than her figure. Have the beautiful woman be scarred underneath her clothing, and those horrible scars are visible if you put her in bikini armor. Have the bishonen boy suck at combat, so that he needs to learn to fight like everyone else at his age.


    Doing things like that, breaking the convention, will really set your game apart from others.
     
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  10. AMGLime

    AMGLime Veteran Veteran

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    This seems like a genius idea! I'd have to do this too... for y'know, research.



    I quote you because I'm about to reference that game, and I'm unsure which one you played that you only have a chance to use skills, they were quite common in that game and the entire system revolved around using your Combo and Skills. Anyways, that being said I'm fine with fanservice if its done fine. Neptunia Series, and recently the Omega Quintent game have a lot of fan service, they dont revolve around it though. Neptunia makes fun of video game culture, and other typical anime and geek tropes by making the characters extremists of the typical personalities and references everywhere. The game series as a whole is a gag, and not meant to be taken seriously like you might a Dragon Age or Final Fantasy. Its like watching Space Balls, and expecting Star Wars instead.


    Omegq Quintent is by the same producers, and much the same, all girl cast, all cutesy and anime personalities. They have their fan service scenes, but more realistic reactions because there is a male character. You dont have three girls bathing naked on a rooftop, you have a girl losing her skirt and freaking the hell out. They're both fine because of how they're handled. Neptunia uses it as a gag, and makes fun of it. Omega uses it lightly and just to make awkward situations with teenagers living under the same roof, being typical yet entertaining.


    All that being said, I dont see the sprites in RPG Maker ever being able to bring the appeal of fan service, but if you have Gallery one offs like they use in the Neptunia or Omega games you could probably get something goin.
     
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  11. trouble time

    trouble time Victorious Veteran

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    I like it, always include it, 100% of the time.  Real talk I'm not concerned about fanservice, I don't care if a game has huge amounts or none as long as it's fun, though I won't even bother to pick up a game I don't like the character designs... with one or two exceptions (the design of the settings and monsters in Dark Souls was enough for me even though I thought the characters and some of the weapons look dull or stupid. I still ended up disliking the game a lot but the setting designs are still SOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOD).


    On the subject of bikini armor, it's honestly not too bad for me either, but I'm a fan of 40k so I'm used to impractical armor designs.
     
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  12. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @AMGLime: I don't know which one, it only says Hyperdimension Neptuna on the cover. No number. I guess it's the first? As it was, my healing skills had only a x% chance to trigger, and I could not control them. And what I saw said there were more skills like that later on. So not sure how you can be intelligent about use unless you get enough points to set all skills you want to 100% use.


    As it is, the characters annoyed me, and the constant up skirt shots after battle got old quickly, as they were just 'there' to be there. That all added up to after 2 hours I ejected the disk and traded it in.
     
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  13. Sharm

    Sharm Pixel Tile Artist Veteran

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    I'm sick of it, especially with how one sided and ubiquitous it is.  I wouldn't be surprised if most of the people who agree with me avoid this topic.  It's really common for a negative opinion of fanservice to be met with some ugly backlash.
     
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  14. Diretooth

    Diretooth Lv. 23 Werewolf Veteran

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    This is actually the least amount of negative commentary toward me regarding fanservice that I've had in a topic thus far. That aside, Sharm raises an excellent point. A lot of games in the mainstream media tend to have a lot of sexualized fanservicey female characters, some by players, some by the people who designed them. There's Inphyy from N3, The main character from Bayonetta, Lara Croft (Who is an accidental version initially), Tifa from FF7 comes to mind, Cidney/Cindy Aurum from FFXV, Chun Li from Street Fighter, among others... You don't see a lot of male characters in a fanservicey manner, and even then it's usually not to the extent that female characters tend to be represented. In movies, it can sometimes be worse depending on who's directing the movie. Books, comics, TV shows both animated and not... When you really take the moment to compare fanservice directed at males versus directed towards females, you see that it tends to focus primarily on the male side. Even then, when you have a game that has primarily female characters and is geared towards females, a lot of the time those same female characters are laden with fanservice directed towards men. FFX-2 comes to mind. Three female characters, all three have some degree of fanservice towards men. There is a degree of justification, though, with Yuna, who after spending all of her life training to sacrifice herself for the good of mankind is finally able to live her life as she wants and does what she feels is necessary to find who she really is as a person.


    Thus, I think that, if anything, there should be more fanservice directed toward women to at the very least balance this.
     
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  15. dragoonwys

    dragoonwys Freelance Illustrator Veteran

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    There are many ways to do fanservice but since we are discussing specifically on the skimpy character design side of things, continuing from Diretooth for a bit. One of the good examples of equal fanservice towards both genders are some of the armor sets in FF14, it's hilarious but also refreshing to see guys getting the same chain mail bikinies and revealing clothing too along with the ladies lol. If more games equalize their design choices like that, I'm pretty sure eventually it would be the norm to get fan service for both genders equally in games. Not a end to all one side heavy fan service of course, games strictly marketed to men will still have more female fan service and games strictly marketed to women will have more male fan service, but at least there would be more games with the same amount of fanservice for both out and about.


    Like some of the others here, I think that there's nothing wrong with this type of fanservice in general. It all boils down to how it's justified, if there is a need/reason for it in the plot then go for it, I would expect fanservice from a flirty succubus but not from a conservative holy maiden afterall. That or if it's clearly a joke outfit unlockable you find in NewGame+ or on 100% completion like certain horror games.
     
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  16. RetroBoy

    RetroBoy Veteran Veteran

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    Call me a prude but I hate fan service. I feel it occupies too much time in a story and takes too much away from the narrative. I come from the age of Devilman where anime had tits and cat, and it wasn't really sexual. It was mature and graphic art, speaking to the cautionary dangers of a society without inhibitions. Now, everything is up-skirts and lameness. I feel dirtier looking up some high school girl's skirt (against my will) than watching demons rape and devour a young woman. And there is something fundamentally wrong about that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2017
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  17. ShadowHawkDragon

    ShadowHawkDragon Veteran Veteran

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    If cleverly done I'm for a bit a 'fan-service' but I agree with @RetroBoy about panty-shots being rather low, crude even. (no the pun was not intentional, but I leave it in anyway)


    As has been said it needs to make sense in the game's setting, and not contrast too much with realism.
    One game idea I've considered is a battle system based around the MC (yes, female) dressed in very little and all the monsters aim for her first (game over if she falls too), and yes that bikini-mail she wears provides 0 defence, requiring you to use the rest of the (moderately well armoured) party to act as body guards in order to literally protect her from harm (taunting/stunning/whatnot).


    Another one thing to consider is the seriousness of the setting. A gag based series can get away with a lot more than a serious setting, especially if it also makes fun of said fan-service. But beware of that very fine line between comical and poor taste.


    @bgillisp You are referring to the first Hyperdimension Neptunia , the worst of them all (never got far myself). The series as a whole improved its battle system from the second game onward (adopted a more tactical approach with positioning and range) and removed that horrible %based item-skill system you spoke of.


    On the topic of Neptunia it is a good example of a setting that treats itself as one big joke, rarely taking itself seriously. Though personally it does dart around that very fine line I mentioned a bit too often.
     
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  18. TheOriginalFive

    TheOriginalFive Veteran Veteran

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    For me it depends on the situation or the character's personality as well. I prefer to avoid it myself, mostly because every attempt I tried looked cringy.


    Only exceptions were if it actually suited the character in question, such as a pompous overbearingly flamboyant young woman showing some of her goods on purpose. But such situations are rare.


    Most of the time I feel skeevy if fanservice is used, since it usually disregards the original character's personality.


    In one game I played, a villain decided to strip another to embarrass her. The awkward part: The first villain was never established to be a pervert in the other games in the series, his decision to strip the prisoner came out of the blue.
     
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  19. Engr. Adiktuzmiko

    Engr. Adiktuzmiko Chemical Engineer, Game Developer, Using BlinkBoy' Veteran

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    If it makes sense within the game, fine.. But if its purpose is just really purely visual satisfaction of some male gamers, I dont like it..
     
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  20. Sharm

    Sharm Pixel Tile Artist Veteran

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    BTW, there have actually been tests about the supposed truism of "sex sells" and it turns out that sex only sells sex, it doesn't actually sell anything else.  If the thing you're trying to sell is only tangentially related, you won't see an increase of sales.  If it's not related at all, you'll actually see a decrease because it's grossing people out.
     
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