What do you prefer HP bars or scan?

[JAD94]

Hey what do you guys prefer? Being able to see enemy HP bars whenever you want or having a skill that allows you to see HP bars such as a scan ability?

 

[Uzuki]

I always prefer to show enemy HP right away so the players at least know they are putting a dent into their HP.

 

[Mouser]

I don't like seeing enemy HP bars.

I like seeing enemy's dead.

 

[The Prince of Sarcasm]

Seeing the hp bars definitely. I had some of my friends play my demo before I had hp bars and were always wondering how soon the boss would die, so they put in all their strongest attacks and he only had like 12 hp left. and they wasted their best special attack. It just help to know if you are actually putting a dent in a battlers health.

 

[Hesufo]

Show HP bars right away, and if you're going to use a Scan ability, have it do more, like reveal the exact HP number, weaknesses, immunities, special ablities, etc.

 

[West Mains]

Depends on the game but mostly I prefer seeing the actual numbers than some non-specific bar.

 

[BigEd781]

I like the mystery.  The first time you fight a tough enemy you have to balance offense and defense to make sure you don't die.  If I know exactly how much HP they have right off the bat I know exactly what I need to do to end the fight.  Of course, this only applies to the first time you fight it. It's more important for bosses IMO.

 

[kerbonklin]

Definitely a scan ability, or at least non-specific HP bars for RPGs. Not knowing the exact amount (or just nothing at all without a scan) builds mystery, suspense, positive stress, etc. on the player which is all very good to have. Also it enforces smart playing when encountering new enemies/bosses, like taking a first turn or two to Guard to see what the enemy/boss can do because they won't know if they can OHKO it, as well as first-turn scanning which can be risky but very rewarding.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

HP bars or no bars at all... I hate having to waste a turn just to know the enemy's HP, so if there's no HP bars and there's a scan option, I'd probably not use it at all... I'd simply bash it out until I win

 

[amerk]

BoF 2 did it well, I think. Each time you fought a new enemy, you didn't get a bar. Afterwards, each time you face the same enemy you get a bar. Boss fights obviously didn't have bars, since you only fought them once and not again.

So maybe something like that - first time no bar, each time afterwards a bar. If the player wants to know the HP on an enemy without a bar, or some other information about its strength and weaknesses, then include a scan that takes MP as well. That way you work both systems in, and the player can decide whether or not to waste precious MP and a turn in battle to scan an enemy without the bar.

 

[Tai_MT]

I don't really like HP bars all that much in an RPG.  The numbers for damage I'm dealing are usually a good indicator of how many times I need to hit it.  Most Boss Battles don't last anything more than 20 turns.  I always just go "whack until dead".  It's an amateur strategy to use all your strongest attacks on the boss in quick succession.  Especially since you might need them later.  A boss battle is a "test" of everything you have learned up to that point.  Through strategy as well as "trial and error", you discover how to defeat the boss.  Seeing the HP bar really only hinders such strategy.

Let's take Pokémon for an example...  How do you think battle and strategy in that would change if you couldn't see enemy health bars?  Would you blow all your strongest attacks first in hopes that it would instantly kill the enemy?  Would you save your weaker attacks so you don't blow a strong one on such a small gap of HP?  Or, would you maybe mix things up as you try to estimate the HP values of your enemies?  Would attacks that don't do physical hits be of even more value since you don't know how many hits it will take to kill an enemy and you need to stay in the game long enough to win?

I mean... just saying...

I'm not really a fan of the "Scan" ability either.  I prefer the tried and true method of "learning on the fly" and "obtaining real world experience at the same time you obtain digital XP".

 

[RadiantCadenza]

I think it partially depends on other factors in your battle system. If you have the kind of game where damage formulas are transparent and the player is highly focused on stats and numbers, then you'd BETTER show those bars, and possibly even the numeric HP value.  This is the case in most strategy games. And even then, scanning or having those numbers from the start is also a decision that varies with the style of the game. If the player Isn't aware of these things and the game is supposed to be more imersive; like in a horror game, for example; then having bars can break the immersion and suspense a little.  

I personally find long, drawn out battles that give you absolutely no indication of how much progress you're making to be incredibly frustrating. 

There are more options than simply using HP bars or scanning stats. 

One solution I like, is visible damage on the enemy. It can be resource intensive, but if you have an alternate battler graphic at different levels of HP then it shows players how much progress they're making without an obtrusive bar. Visual indicators like visible scratches/injuries, armor breaking and falling off, etc. Or just having enemies color change (A common one in some games is applying a red hue at low HP) 

But I think we're starting to derail the original question, because I get the feeling from the opening post that  JAD94 is already planning to use bars and is just trying to decide if you should have to scan for them first or not, so debating to have bars at all is slightly off topic. If scanning is something that you always have to do in every battle, against every enemy, it can be tedious to the player. If it's something you only have to do to a new type of generic enemy the first time you encounter it, it can kind of add to the feeling of exploration and discovery, especially if you use a scan script that shows you a 'codec' for the new creature you scan, or shows you some new stats.

Another possibility to make scanning feel more useful and less tedious is making it a viable skill that does more than just show information. Like scanning an enemy might debuff it's accuracy, because you now understand it's attack patterns which makes it's skills easier to dodge. Or scanning giving you skills or items or whatever based on things you 'learned' from the scan. That could work especially well for a sci-fi game where there's a scientist or researcher somewhere that reads the data from your scans and gives you new skills and equipment based on what they learned.

"Hmm... based on this data you sent me on dragons, I was able to develop this new armor based on the fire-repelling properties of their scales" That sort of thing. 

So basically, what I'm saying is that if you have a scanning mechanic, you might want to consider jazzing it up to make it more interesting to use.

 

[Tigersong]

I'm biased here. Numbers are intimidating; in fact, while playing The Old Republic I made up mind never to look at the numbers for enemy hit points or EXP required to reach the next level. It's much easier for me, personally, to just watch that health bar go down- or the experience bar go up.

 

[whitesphere]

I think it is good to show an HP bar, at least for non-bosses.  Think of it this way:  If you are fighting something in real life, you can see how badly damaged/hurt it is.  To me, that is what the HP bar represents.  A visual look at how badly I've hurt it.  It might be fair not to show the bar at all the first time you encounter something, because you've never seen it before and have no idea how badly hurt it is.

Regardless, there are definitely cases where you can't know how badly you've hurt something.  Those might be bosses. Or "Can't win this battle" opponents, or "Battle inside the mind" opponents.

A Scan ability should show weaknesses, possibly immunities and possibly any special abilities the opponent has (like Summoning or various Special or Magic attacks) and may or may not show exact HP amounts.    One interesting idea is to have the Scan ability show more information about an opponent, the more times you encounter it, as you learn more about it.

Or have it act like the Roguelikes.  More kills of an opponent grants more information, but special abilities you only know if that opponent has used them before on you.

 

[JAD94]

I think it partially depends on other factors in your battle system. If you have the kind of game where damage formulas are transparent and the player is highly focused on stats and numbers, then you'd BETTER show those bars, and possibly even the numeric HP value.  This is the case in most strategy games. And even then, scanning or having those numbers from the start is also a decision that varies with the style of the game. If the player Isn't aware of these things and the game is supposed to be more imersive; like in a horror game, for example; then having bars can break the immersion and suspense a little.  

I personally find long, drawn out battles that give you absolutely no indication of how much progress you're making to be incredibly frustrating. 

There are more options than simply using HP bars or scanning stats. 

One solution I like, is visible damage on the enemy. It can be resource intensive, but if you have an alternate battler graphic at different levels of HP then it shows players how much progress they're making without an obtrusive bar. Visual indicators like visible scratches/injuries, armor breaking and falling off, etc. Or just having enemies color change (A common one in some games is applying a red hue at low HP) 

But I think we're starting to derail the original question, because I get the feeling from the opening post that  JAD94 is already planning to use bars and is just trying to decide if you should have to scan for them first or not, so debating to have bars at all is slightly off topic. If scanning is something that you always have to do in every battle, against every enemy, it can be tedious to the player. If it's something you only have to do to a new type of generic enemy the first time you encounter it, it can kind of add to the feeling of exploration and discovery, especially if you use a scan script that shows you a 'codec' for the new creature you scan, or shows you some new stats.

Another possibility to make scanning feel more useful and less tedious is making it a viable skill that does more than just show information. Like scanning an enemy might debuff it's accuracy, because you now understand it's attack patterns which makes it's skills easier to dodge. Or scanning giving you skills or items or whatever based on things you 'learned' from the scan. That could work especially well for a sci-fi game where there's a scientist or researcher somewhere that reads the data from your scans and gives you new skills and equipment based on what they learned.

"Hmm... based on this data you sent me on dragons, I was able to develop this new armor based on the fire-repelling properties of their scales" That sort of thing. 

So basically, what I'm saying is that if you have a scanning mechanic, you might want to consider jazzing it up to make it more interesting to use.

You are absolutely right lol in terms of me planning to already have HP Bars in my game. What I might do is set it up so that you only see HP Bars after you have encountered an enemy already. Hence boss battles will have no HP bars and will leave the player to play strategically, atleast until they beat the game at least once and familiarize themselves with the boss strategies or stats. How's that sound? 

 

[West Mains]

You are absolutely right lol in terms of me planning to already have HP Bars in my game. What I might do is set it up so that you only see HP Bars after you have encountered an enemy already. Hence boss battles will have no HP bars and will leave the player to play strategically, atleast until they beat the game at least once and familiarize themselves with the boss strategies or stats. How's that sound? 

i really like this idea

 

[Celianna]

Moving this to game mechanics.

 

[AcosmicDevi]

I prefer the scan ability than HP bars. After you've fought an enemy a number of times, you get a sense of what and how long it takes to beat it. I like scan abilities that give you a lot of info like the enemy's weakness, buffs, etc. What I don't like is when a scan shows a weakness and but that weakness doesn't have any effect when you use it on that enemy. I've played games where a bird (example) will show it's weak against fire and so I'll cast fire and it will have little to no effect on the bird. That's so annoying. You just made me waste two turns.

 

[Ed19]

I prefer HP Bars than the scan ability. It's more convenience. Anyway, this rule only applies for normal enemies.

And, I don't like the scan ability that gives you a lot of information about the monster, I feel like I'm cheating. As a player, it's more challenging to reveal the enemy's weak point by yourself rather than spoil it by using the scan ability. 

 

[OM3GA-Z3RO]

Personally I hate seeing enemies HP bars, it ruins the suspense and thrill of the game knowing you are going to defeat the boss, seeing the enemies health bar just gives you a lazy vibe instead of keeping you alert and hoping that you can defeat the boss before it beats you, also with the HP bar showing you can easily mark where the bosses next phase is going to be so you will always be prepared (On your second try of course), I'd prefer BoF3 or the scan method over being spoon fed by the game showing you enemies HP.