KisaiTenshi

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The bold part isn't necessarily right. My game, for example, would fall under your "C" item, but it can still be opened, modified and played from RPG Maker.

Anyway, even if my game were to be approved by sending a message asking for permission, I decided to stop working with RPG Maker. It's just not worth it to have to deal with this kind of thing. It's not the first I've had to worry about RM's license and I never really had similar problems with any other engine I worked with, so I decided to move on.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, if you were to start the game with MV but then not use it, you would have to remove the RPG Maker assets (eg images,music and sounds) because your license to use those assets is with RPG Maker, not an alternative game engine or "maker" program. Simply asking "How much do I need to use" is suggestive of trying to fulfill the licence without using the software and it's assets for it's intended purpose. People* ask how to work around the license because they feel the license doesn't apply to them anyway. This is why that person somewhere else on the forum got denied from using the RPG Maker trial version to publish an Android game on Google Play.

* I used to work somewhere where people asked weasel questions all the time, and am not suggesting this was the intent of posters in this thread. People tend to dance around the rules until they are called on it, and then feign ignorance because they see other people getting away with it, unaware that nobody is getting away with it. It's in their head that they are being singled out.
 

felsenstern

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Hrmph... I think we are just falling from one extreme to the other

@Hudell: sorry that these things are getting to you. We are all trying to make our point but, it's almost pointless, because the rule is a simple unrefined protection for MV, nothing more nothing less and your game will be perfectly fine. And I can also tell you that your game doesn't fall in any of the categories that would disqualify it of "being made with MV" because there are no categories, those were just made up speculations. At least wait half a year things will get clearer... because if you really leave now, I would feel very, very guilty!

@KisaiTenshi: no, we are no pirates and also no weasels. We having concerns that while developing a game with RPG-Maker there could be a point at where no improvements could be made without losing the right to use the Engine or the Resources, not because we did everything possible to avoid MV, but we did everything to make our Game rock.

I think another problem is discussing a controversy topic in a forum . If we were sitting in a room discussing the topics, there it would work without bigger troubles, but here addressing misunderstandings from one post to the next is simply too slow.
 

KisaiTenshi

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@KisaiTenshi: no, we are no pirates and also no weasels. We having concerns that while developing a game with RPG-Maker there could be a point at where no improvements could be made without losing the right to use the Engine or the Resources, not because we did everything possible to avoid MV, but we did everything to make our Game rock.
Again, I am not suggesting the intent of posters here was to dance around the license, I used to work for a company where people asked pretty much point blank how to weasel around a policy, and the result was the policy became longer and longer and still nobody read it because someone clarified something. People's first reaction to being told "No" is to go "well the how come XXXXX is?" instead of accepting that maybe they are being told "No" because that is the policy and it hasn't changed in the 10 minutes it took for them to complain about it, when they could have read the rules.

If you have to ask the question "How much do I need to keep, to keep it legal?" then perhaps you are using the wrong tool in the first place. The right question to ask is "What changes would invalidate the license?"

No plugin would would invalidate the license since the plugins still rely on the base code to exist. You can replace 100% of the assets (images, music, sound) and it's still made with MV. The only thing that really invalidates the license is using ANY RPG MAKER assets and but none of the tools (editor, engine.)

If someone writes an entirely new javascript engine, and still uses the json files, assets, that is still a MV game.

If someone writes an entirely new MV-compatible editor, that does not entitle the person to just download the RTP assets to make their game without buying a license to use the RTP assets.

That is why there is some circular logic in this thread. There are obviously ways to work around the license requirements, but doing so is a legal problem, something that anyone should KNOW is wrong to do. So if you have to ask the question, then this is the wrong tool.
 

felsenstern

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No plugin would would invalidate the license since the plugins still rely on the base code to exist. You can replace 100% of the assets (images, music, sound) and it's still made with MV.
Ever wrote a plugin? ;-)
 

KisaiTenshi

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Ever wrote a plugin? ;-)
Again. If you are intending to violate the license conditions, you would already know what would constitute not being in the spirit of the license. None of the currently public plugins actually "gut" the core MV engine, rather they add additional functionality in layers. Even adding TileED functionality doesn't eject the original game engine. Using TileEd doesn't make it not MV. TileED doesn't add any game logic any more than parallax maps. The map system is not the game.
 

felsenstern

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It's hard to keep up a discussion when you obviously entered some kind of defense position and clobber a discussion about a topic which without better knowledge you set even to some bad work experiences. What you don't understand is that the questions asked here are important and vital for people who seriously develop more than just a couple of plug and play RPGs and the group you keep comparing to us is a group who anyway don't care for rules. Anyway Shaz and Andar answered me everything that could be answered in the actual state of the EULA.
 

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If I swap out the Node-Webkit runtime and adapt code to run on Electron and potentially Crosswalk, while maintaining compatibility and doing database/mapping within the MV editor, that's still made with MV, right?
 

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KisaiTenshi

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If I swap out the Node-Webkit runtime and adapt code to run on Electron and potentially Crosswalk, while maintaining compatibility and doing database/mapping within the MV editor, that's still made with MV, right?
Swapping out the Node-webkit is OK because the HTML5 game engine isn't dependent on Node-webkit, it's only dependent on having HTML5 Canvas and WebAudio functioning. If you map the json file's to network URL's that are database driven that is OK too because that isn't materially changing the game from a RPG Maker MV game into something else.
 

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I don't really have the scripting prowess for such a feat but, since we've brough up the topic of changing a component of the game engine like that, has anyone thought of building an actual database replacement? Using a more.... database like system rather than the flat file JSON format? I ask simply because as a parsed file format, the larger the database gets the longer it takes to work with it due to the structure. Especially so as we approach the upper limit the base engine allows without scripts.

Example being a portable MySQL that runs with the game and of course a script would be necessary to feed the reformatted data back to the game engine. 
 

KisaiTenshi

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I don't really have the scripting prowess for such a feat but, since we've brough up the topic of changing a component of the game engine like that, has anyone thought of building an actual database replacement? Using a more.... database like system rather than the flat file JSON format? I ask simply because as a parsed file format, the larger the database gets the longer it takes to work with it due to the structure. Especially so as we approach the upper limit the base engine allows without scripts.

Example being a portable MySQL that runs with the game and of course a script would be necessary to feed the reformatted data back to the game engine. 
Not viable. You can write asynchronous javascript shims in something like PHP if the game is going to be hosted on a web server, but the "database" part of the game needs to be resident to work except for the maps. If you wanted to rewrite the "database" system in RPG Maker MV to deal with straight SQL queries (eg webSQL,) that would be not be an improvement since it would be adding another level of complexity in translating from SQL to JS and back.

From a "is it still MV?" aspect, it would likely be accomplished by having a tool convert the json files to SQL UPDATE queries, so one could still use the MV editor, and just run this other tool to load the data into a different database backend.

Since there are no alternatives except JSON and XML that can be used for datastores on the client side, there is nothing that would be more efficient. If the game client wasn't javascript, you'd actually want to use binary trees and only load the branches and leaves as needed on map boundaries. 
 

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@KisaiTenshi Yea that's how I was figuring on the 'made with mv' side of things, but thank you, That answers my thoughts nicely. :3
 

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Sure, as long as you have legally purchased copies of both.  I'm not sure which would be easier/better - converting from VX/Ace to MV or the other way around.  I suspect converting to a smaller size would probably give a better quality.
 

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They're welcome to tweak the engine so it's personalized to their game,

OK reading this make me think.  are we allowed to modify the MV software itself to suite our needs I mean the wording from the official statement really make me confused on rather we are allowed to heavely mod the software itself or not? Pls clarify.
 

Shaz

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If "the MV software itself" means the editor you use to create your game, then no, as that would require decompiling the editor, which has always been against the EULA.
 

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If "the MV software itself" means the editor you use to create your game, then no, as that would require decompiling the editor, which has always been against the EULA.

that mod manager that some guy wrote is against the rules? I thought it had been allowed
 

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mod manager? I'm not familiar with it.  Maybe it was done through official channels and they got special permission?  Perhaps @Archeia knows what the deal is ...
 

Kaliya

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If "the MV software itself" means the editor you use to create your game, then no, as that would require decompiling the editor, which has always been against the EULA.


mod manager? I'm not familiar with it.  Maybe it was done through official channels and they got special permission?  Perhaps @Archeia knows what the deal is ...

The MV Editor is released using Qt 5  (http://www.qt.io/developers/) under the LGPL license (http://www.qt.io/FAQ/), it is technically legal to modify the Editor due to that reason alone and the EULA saying otherwise would be in violation of the LGPL. I'm not a legal expert though, and this is just my understanding. I would have to verify that it is released under the LGPL version however, though I haven't been told otherwise. We would need to talk to KDKW to get confirmation. 
 

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I know it's always been against the EULA to modify the engine itself as it would require decompiling.  I admit when I looked through the EULA of MV I couldn't find the same wording, but wasn't aware of the change with the editor - does this mean modifying the editor does not involve decompiling?  In that case it might be different, so I will get someone to follow up and give confirmation one way or the other.
 

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