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I got confused. Let me get this straight with an example:

  1. User gets a legit copy of MV.
  2. User modifies the game he creates with MV to work on X Operating System/develop a Metro/Modern/UWP game.
  3. He/She still uses MV editor to develop the game.
  4. He/She uses custom made resources.

So, in this scenario(s), does that mean that it is made with mv or not?
 

Shaz

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I would like to ask about an example.


I'm currently writing a simple puzzle game.  It does not use the combat engine.  There's no leveling or equipment.  There is dialogue, but not very much.


Most of the code I use from the game is how sprites move on the map (pretty standard stuff).  And the more involved I get in the game, the more I want to edit, use plugins, and add my own content.


At this point in the design-- this is still completely true:


But I'm not positive I could say my game is "mostly an RPG maker game" anymore.  Also, the more I work on it, the more I know that I should be optimizing certain aspects, which means straying away from the original software.



@Internetomancer  If you are using maps and event code, yes your game is made with MV.  Plugins add to the core script, they do not replace them.  You've made no indication that you've removed all the core scripts and have replaced them with your own.  It's okay to use plugins, and it's okay to make some changes to the original code.  There is no requirement to use every aspect of MV (combat, levels, equipment) - some people are making visual novels that have none of those things.

I got confused. Let me get this straight with an example:

  1. User gets a legit copy of MV.
  2. User modifies the game he creates with MV to work on X Operating System/develop a Metro/Modern/UWP game.
  3. He/She still uses MV editor to develop the game.
  4. He/She uses custom made resources.

So, in this scenario(s), does that mean that it is made with mv or not?



@AceOfAces_Mod you may need to elaborate more on #2 - what kind of modifications, how are they being made, to what extent?  Unless you mean the whole thing built with MV is taken apart and you use a different engine (including one you've written yourself) to handle everything, there should be no issue here.  I don't know what UWP is but I don't imagine it matters.
 
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Isaac The Red

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I got confused. Let me get this straight with an example:

  1. User gets a legit copy of MV.
  2. User modifies the game he creates with MV to work on X Operating System/develop a Metro/Modern/UWP game.
  3. He/She still uses MV editor to develop the game.
  4. He/She uses custom made resources.

So, in this scenario(s), does that mean that it is made with mv or not?



This would definitely be "Made in MV" The only thing your really doing here is giving the game something to run in. Since the 'Game' that MV publishes is an HTML5 game, to run on operating systems beyond just windows or certain web browsers, android and Metro Ui for example you would need to give it a wrapper. Package it up so that it has the resources it needs to run all the html5 goodness. :3
 

AceOfAces_Mod

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@AceOfAces_Mod you may need to elaborate more on #2 - what kind of modifications, how are they being made, to what extent?  Unless you mean the whole thing built with MV is taken apart and you use a different engine (including one you've written yourself) to handle everything, there should be no issue here.  I don't know what UWP is but I don't imagine it matters.

UWP = Universal Windows Platform.


What I mean with #2 is that the user takes the game's code and modifies it so it can work on a different OS or a platform (like the aforementioned UWP).
 

Shaz

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if "modify" does not mean "completely rewriting" you would be okay.  If it's being written in another language or having major modifications done, it would be questionable, and you would probably need to talk to someone from Degica to get a definite answer.
 

Anisoft

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Damn... and here I was wanting to do that "Made with MV" or "Powered with MV" at the start of a video, and then demonstrate insane quality and detail of a game that looks nothing like a RPG Maker game. Oh well, a man can dream. 
 

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If my game is made entirely in RMMV, but it's using the default assets and assets made by other members of the community, will I still be able to distribute the game commercially?


I understand I'm gonna ask for permission from certain content creators before I put my game out for everyone to see, but I'm more worried about getting in legal trouble for selling a game using MVs assets.
 

Shaz

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MV's assets can be used for commercial games.  So can any asset packs you purchase from the store.  It's just resources that have been contributed by community members that you need to be careful of.  To that end, I strongly suggest you ONLY use resources that can be used commercially, because it'd be a nightmare to have to go through your whole project right at the end and ask everyone's permission, then find replacements for anything where the creator has said 'no'.
 

Isaac The Red

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Adding on to what shaz said, if you are making a commercial game and an asset maker requires that you ask to use their resources commercially, ask them before you start using the resource, so that way you know you can use it ahead of time. 
 

Squirrelzone

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if I take out the made in rmmv part and put the game on steam workshop will i get sued
 

Shaz

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what game?  The game you make, or the engine itself?
 

Isaac The Red

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if I take out the made in rmmv part and put the game on steam workshop will i get sued

I assume you mean the "Made in MV" Plugin? No, thats there so that you can show the engine you made it in, and/or display your own splash screen if you want to, it's not mandatory for it to be there. :3
 

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Learned a lot reading this thread, it clarified somethings and well made other things even muddier.


I have a question...


After seeing all the problem people are having with memory issues, I want to create a customized web browser to play my RMMV projects on.


Basically what I want to do is this...


1.)Export my game as an HTML5 project


2.)Run in on a customized web browser using a Webview control and C++ to backend the graphics via DirectX


3.)98% to 100% of my game will be made in the RMMV Editor


The closest post I can see to this being asked about this is we can't make a custom engine for our RMMV project, but what I have in mind isn't quite that.


I wish to dump node-webkit, use an MS Edge web control in a C++ program to better manage the graphics and memory.


The closest analogy I can make is I wish to make a custom HTML5 player of sorts for a fully exported RMMV HTML5 project.


Thanks in advance...
 

KisaiTenshi

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Learned a lot reading this thread, it clarified somethings and well made other things even muddier.


I have a question...


After seeing all the problem people are having with memory issues, I want to create a customized web browser to play my RMMV projects on.


Basically what I want to do is this...


1.)Export my game as an HTML5 project


2.)Run in on a customized web browser using a Webview control and C++ to backend the graphics via DirectX


3.)98% to 100% of my game will be made in the RMMV Editor


The closest post I can see to this being asked about this is we can't make a custom engine for our RMMV project, but what I have in mind isn't quite that.


I wish to dump node-webkit, use an MS Edge web control in a C++ program to better manage the graphics and memory.


The closest analogy I can make is I wish to make a custom HTML5 player of sorts for a fully exported RMMV HTML5 project.


Thanks in advance...



There is no issue with exporting the game to HTML5, because that is exactly what happens when you export the project, even when you select Windows or MacOS X. The "RPG Maker" binary is just nw.js ( https://github.com/nwjs/nw.js or http://nwjs.io/ )


The game is entirely based on json files that create an interpretated environment for what is exported from the RPG Maker editor. Most of the arguments around licencing are regarding either ejecting the core javascript engine, or ejecting the RTP (the stock assets), which is mostly a grey area depending on the intent.


Now if you simply use a MSIE webview, and your game binary just wraps this, then that's no different than how the game operates on Android (which uses Chrome as of Android 4.4.4) or iOS (which uses Safari)


That said, that won't solve memory problems. Fundamentally, the problem is that people are trying to make a game that is not within the scope of what RPG Maker is designed around. A HTML5 game environment unfortunately is subject to the whims of the HTML5 limitations and lack-of-standardization on image, music and video formats between browsers.


My suggestion, if you feel you are competent enough at programming would be to just read the JSON files itself and use a stand-alone javascript engine (eg V8, Spidermonkey) to process the javascript, and only implement the "WebGL Canvas" object, AAC/MP3 music, and PNG image format. Otherwise simply switching to Edge's webview doesn't really improve anything, because the problem isn't that it's nw.js, or safari or firefox, or whatever other browser people want to use. The problem is entirely around trying to shoe-horn things into a web browser DOM that is not about web browsing, so you have a 1GB memory footprint with nw.js because chrome unpacks and caches the decoded music instead of streaming it from the disk like a dedicated game engine would.


But you can't assume that the user won't ever want to use the browser DOM objects to, for example stream the game assets itself that dynamically change.


Anyway, yes you can basically make a MSIE webview wrapper, it will be no different from a Cordova build.


https://msdn.microsoft.com/library/windows/apps/windows.ui.xaml.controls.webview.aspx?cs-save-lang=1&cs-lang=cpp#code-snippet-1


Be aware that the game will only work on Windows 10 if you do so.
 
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Matombo

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Ok i cross read most of the toppic, but i can't help to notice a very fatal practical flaw in this very theoretical Discussion:


As long as you can open edit save and playtest the game from MV, how can anyone prove that it was not made with mv?


When kadokawa wants to sue you it's there turn to provide evidence that you didn't use MV and this is not a case where you have to lay open every bit of software installed on your pc.


Well i don't want to incite someone to break the license, just wanna saying that at the end of the day it comes down to this.


So as a rule of thumb i would say "Open, Edit, Save, Play" is fair enought.
 

KisaiTenshi

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Ok i cross read most of the toppic, but i can't help to notice a very fatal practical flaw in this very theoretical Discussion:


As long as you can open edit save and playtest the game from MV, how can anyone prove that it was not made with mv?


When kadokawa wants to sue you it's there turn to provide evidence that you didn't use MV and this is not a case where you have to lay open every bit of software installed on your pc.


Well i don't want to incite someone to break the license, just wanna saying that at the end of the day it comes down to this.


So as a rule of thumb i would say "Open, Edit, Save, Play" is fair enought.



If I download your game, and look at the Javascript object descriptions, that tells me that it at some point was a RPG Maker MV project. If you use the MV editor to build the map using MV assets, but then decide to go build the game in Unity still using MV's assets, that is a violation of the licence.


The entire open, edit, save and playtest, means that you have not changed the data structures in a way that the editor would revert upon saving. This is why plugins work at all, because the plugins do not edit the data structures, they merely extend them or offer alternate functionality in a new object that the editor isn't really aware of. If I took the same game where the map had been made in RPG Maker but no assets, then obviously it would not load in RPG Maker MV, and is thus not considered a MV game.


There is some wiggle room in interpretation because you are not required to use node-webkit (nw.js) to play the game, and it's entirely possible to re-implement MV in Unity if one was willing to spend the time on it, but it again comes back to being able to re-open it in MV. The .json files work this way, the core javascript and plugins do not. So if you cloned MV's engine in Unity, you would not be able to use MV's assets unless you still did the majority of the game in MV's editor, thus the editor can still open-edit-save-test. All you would be doing in Unity is replacing the WebGL/Canvas/Pixi.js and plugins overhead with Unity's overhead. That could be faster, it could be slower. 


Which is what I mean when people ask about specifics to the license. When people ask, they have a use in mind that they pretty much know already that it violates the spirit of the license, or may violate the license (due to how the assets are packaged,) and they are looking for how to get around it. That goes right back to "are you trying to use MV's assets" or "are you trying to use MV's engine/editor". If you build a game with MV, get to like 95% complete and then get a publisher that says it has to work on the 3DS or the WiiU or something else that doesn't have a native node-webkit build or webview (Nintendo actually does have a web framework, but the WiiU and 3DS are much weaker machines than a desktop) then you would likely be forced to build something MV-compatible for the target platform.


It is less problematic to use MV's editor, or any other editor to build something else than it is to use the assets.


The copyright on the assets belong to KADOKAWA, and thus any use of the RPG Maker assets outside of a RPG Maker game constitutes copyright infringement. This includes using the assets as examples in webpage tutorials or video tutorials, regardless if they are RPG Maker tutorials or not (eg people use them in tutorials for Unity.) This is why artists get super-upset when someone posts their image to imgur instead of linking to their webpage/tumblr/deviantart. People just save stuff they find on the internet to their hard drive and share it through unofficial means, losing copyright information in the process, and then people mistakenly believe the content to be public domain. I have seen first-hand people using sprites that look exactly the same as RPG Maker's and Square-enix's assets, and there are assets IN RPG Maker that could readily be mistaken for Square-enix assets. One of the huge differences between the USA and Japan is that the Japanese tend to care less about copyright infringement (see Comiket) so long as the artwork is drawn new in fan productions (doujin) and not stolen from another artist. In the USA there is this bizarre obsession by fans stealing other fans fanart and putting it on t-shirts, which is even worse. So what I'm getting at here is that if you use KADOKAWA's RPG Maker assets outside of RPG Maker, you would absolutely deserve any legal repercussions for doing so. If you start making T-shirts of the characters in your game that were generated by the RPG Maker character Generator, you can't do that, because that is not what the license is for.


If you use the editor to build a non-MV game, using non-MV assets, that's pretty much a non-issue. You may want to go "made with RPG Maker MV" but if you are building your own engine and only converting the output from MV to this other engine then from a legal perspective you are not using any assets or code from RPG Maker MV, and thus you can't open it back in MV and it is not a MV game. Out of politeness you'd want to credit who made your tools, but you don't need to provide a way for every-joe to edit your game. Now on the other hand, if you decide to make your game mod-able, and modding requires MV, then you can not give users RPG Maker MV to make mods.


There is always going to be some kind of edge case that no license can completely black-or-white approve. If in doubt, contact the developers (not the forum) and seek legal advice and get a firm yes or no. Do not assume that no response means tentative approval.
 

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If I decided distribute the game on Windows with a different executable, would that still count? Or I make a complete game in MV, but completely change how the game renders? Namely, this means upgrading to 3D and WebGL 2.0, upgrading the executable if necessary.
 

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What do you mean, 'with a different executable' and 'upgrading the executable'? Can you play it by loading it in MV and hitting the Play Test button? There's your answer.
 

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Thank you so much for the information!
 

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