What does "Made with RMMV" mean?

SatansAngel

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Looking at the original first post here.

"Original games" - what is the benefit/disadvantage of this and not making it "made with RMMV"?

I assumed you can sell a commercial MV game anywhere using the resource package it comes with so whats the difference?
 

Shaz

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"Original games" is just a term for a game that you make that is not a copy of someone else's game. I'm not sure if that would include fan games - I guess it would.

Basically it boils down to this:
- if you want to use MV's resources, your game needs to be made with the MV engine
- if you don't want to use the MV engine, then you can't use MV's resources

(there are also terms that let you use the resources from any RPG Maker version in any other RPG Maker version, as long as you have a licence to both of them, but that's beyond this discussion).

The issue, and the whole slant of this thread, is that there are people who don't want to use RPG Maker to make their game, but they want to be able to use the resources that come with the engine. The EULA says you can't do that, so (in the worst case) some people are trying to find loopholes and push the boundaries based on technicalities. Their goal is to not use MV to make their games, but to be able to claim that they did, so that they can use the resources. Others are legitimately using MV to make the game, but are also using other libraries or doing something to the game after it's deployed, and want to know if what they're doing will mean their game is no longer made with MV - they don't want to put themselves in a position where they can't use the resources because of something they're doing in addition to using MV.
 

Andar

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@SatansAngel the problem is that the resources are only licenced for use with RPG-Makers, they are not allowed to be used in other engines no matter if commercial or not.

And some people have tried to stress that limitation, basically arguing "how much of MV needs to remain so that I can still use the RM-Resources".
That is what this topic is about - to give rules on when a game is no longer "made with RMMV" and you loose the licence to use the resources included with RMMV

EDIT: ninja'd
 

SatansAngel

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Shaz and Andar - thankyou.

That clears up this long-winded 5 page forum for me.

Quite a lot of rubbish on 5 pages but you both summed it up in one paragraph lol. :thumbsup-right::thumbsup-left:

Basically it boils down to this:
- if you want to use MV's resources, your game needs to be made with the MV engine
- if you don't want to use the MV engine, then you can't use MV's resources

Honestly, if you have a better engine than RPG Maker MV, then you shouldn't even be using the resources here, you should be doling out $100 left and right for copyrights and professional artists. Secondly, who in their right mind would emulate a copywritten game and try to sell it on the market, that's illegal and completely devoid of any common business sense. I feel a bit bad you even have to educate people on that, but I suppose it's necessary because theres lots of young people here that havn't learned about the professional business world, yet.
 

Andar

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Honestly, if you have a better engine than RPG Maker MV, then you shouldn't even be using the resources here,
You're forgetting that there are several free engines that come with extremely limited resources, because the original creators couldn't pay anyone for resources (for example open source projects without funding).
There is a very limited number of engines (both free or commercial) that come with as much resources as the RMs provide, and the price for good quality resources (especially if a full game set is required) is a lot more than $100 - a full tileset alone can go up to $30.000 if commissioned exclusively.
 

KisaiTenshi

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Shaz and Andar - thankyou.

That clears up this long-winded 5 page forum for me.

Quite a lot of rubbish on 5 pages but you both summed it up in one paragraph lol. :thumbsup-right::thumbsup-left:

Basically it boils down to this:
- if you want to use MV's resources, your game needs to be made with the MV engine
- if you don't want to use the MV engine, then you can't use MV's resources

Honestly, if you have a better engine than RPG Maker MV, then you shouldn't even be using the resources here, you should be doling out $100 left and right for copyrights and professional artists. Secondly, who in their right mind would emulate a copywritten game and try to sell it on the market, that's illegal and completely devoid of any common business sense. I feel a bit bad you even have to educate people on that, but I suppose it's necessary because theres lots of young people here that havn't learned about the professional business world, yet.

Read all the pages, because the questions are never innocent.

There is a trend, over the last year, though likely going back further where people "asset-flip" games to sell on steam to mine for steam cards, which in turn are part of a larger money laundering scheme. This is happening mostly with Unity-engine games, but can happen with any game engine that lacks a EULA on assets. In the case with RPG Maker, if the EULA did not apply to the assets, people would just avoid buying RPG Maker in the first place, and use the tilesets with other free/open-source tools, repackaging them with the free tools, and people would just make minor tweaks to these games and throw them on steam, thus making it even harder to find needle in the haystack of intentional rubbish.

As it is, Steam will not approve a game made with a demo/trial version of RPG Maker.
 

SatansAngel

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Read all the pages, because the questions are never innocent.

There is a trend, over the last year, though likely going back further where people "asset-flip" games to sell on steam to mine for steam cards, which in turn are part of a larger money laundering scheme. This is happening mostly with Unity-engine games, but can happen with any game engine that lacks a EULA on assets. In the case with RPG Maker, if the EULA did not apply to the assets, people would just avoid buying RPG Maker in the first place, and use the tilesets with other free/open-source tools, repackaging them with the free tools, and people would just make minor tweaks to these games and throw them on steam, thus making it even harder to find needle in the haystack of intentional rubbish.

As it is, Steam will not approve a game made with a demo/trial version of RPG Maker.


Right, I understand what's going on. I never said the questions were innocent, I was implying that they are off-topic and that this post is already answered.

Personally, my game is so good that it can't be copied without being noticed. Anyone dumb enough to sell resources illegally obviously can't make a great game, they are dealing with small time games nobody ever played. Pity on them ha ha.
 

Bryy Miller

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Interesting. I would have just assumed that, if it is made in the engine, it is made in the engine.
 

Shaz

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That is because you are not trying to find a way to get around it ;)
 

Traverse

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This is a highly subjective line to draw, not an objective rule. The guidelines given in the first post are not an "accurate answer" at all but only a set of guidelines that require case-by-case interpretation.
If you are doing as much outside the editor as possible and changing the scripts as much as possible so the original MV scripts are no longer used - your game is not "made with MV".

Since the other thread I pointed this out in was locked, I'm going to post this here:

The problem is that "no longer needed" is not a clear, distinct line. It is not a 1 + 1 = 2 type of rule. You would have to come up with a metric by which to gauge necessity and argue that certain aspects made the engine "no longer necessary" for the project. You would imagine that this is not an easy feat.

One could claim a parallax-mapped project with heavily modified scripts was using the database "only very briefly to stay within the rule". It would be very difficult to prove that the small remnants - like using certain parts of the database or deploying the game - were "only to stay within the rule" and not actually necessary at all.

This is the sort of thing you could bring before a judge to argue.

So long as some part of RMMV specific to RMMV (or at least identifiably RMMV) was used in the process, the only real accurate answer there would be is "whatever Enterbrain says is/is not made with RMMV".
 

TheoAllen

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To be fair, this is a "general rule", if you're making a game (a commercial one especially) and want to know the license because you're havily modified the engine to do your bidding, you can contact the staff so that they can evaluate your OWN case, in case if this "general rule" is not clear enough. Kes is NOT an official staff, so you may or may not take his answer as final answer.
 

Traverse

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I'd like to see what this example would be considered:

Let us say you were trying to make an online digital card game (not a hardcopy paper card game, but a digital one ala Hearthstone) with RMMV. The entire multiplayer infrastructure would come from outside the engine, that is to say, custom-coded from scratch. However, you were using the engine's touchscreen and mouse-input APIs and also using the RTP assets along with heavily modified scripts (title screen, windows, etc.) and let us say that bits of the database like the actor/enemy database entries were shanghai'd into a database for your card information (assuming you have less than 999 unique cards in this entire game).

However, the mapping system and events are virtually unused except for the tutorial and a handful of in-game-currency earning minigames (not paid currency, which we will assume does not exist). This game was deployed with RMMV (web and for Android + iPhone) and MV RTP assets are used in its digital cards.

Is this game considered made with RMMV or is RMMV considered not necessary for it?
 

TheoAllen

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Honestly, at that point, why not use a completely different engine? Unity for example.
Are u "using" MV just to "generate" a code that later you can modify it, so that you can use RTP resources?
 

Traverse

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Honestly, at that point, why not use a completely different engine? Unity for example.
Are u "using" MV just to "generate" a code that later you can modify it, so that you can use RTP resources?

Not using Unity could be for a reason as simple as the license for MV being cheaper and no need for the 3D/physics functionality - it's simply a 2D digital card game, after all.

The game once deployed with MV isn't intended to be modified, but simply put up on app stores. Simple pay and play model, no guarantee of any further expansions or extra cards afterwards.

Although on the topic of microtransactions and/or patch systems, that also makes me wonder as to their effect on whether a game once considered "made by MV" could be later considered no longer made with MV after a certain number of patches.
 

Kes

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I have asked Degica staff to respond to this, as it seems to me that this discussion is not going anywhere unless it has an official answer. However, please note that with differing time zones there might not be an answer for a few hours.
 

bgillisp

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You know though, if you all keep trying to find loopholes to the rules, I wouldn't be surprised if next RPGMaker Degica doesn't just say $@%& it and includes NO RTP as they get sick and tired of people trying to defeat the intent here.
 

TheoAllen

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You know though, if you all keep trying to find loopholes to the rules, I wouldn't be surprised if next RPGMaker Degica doesn't just say $@%& it and includes NO RTP as they get sick and tired of people trying to defeat the intent here.
This isn't about trying to find a loophole, maybe the case of using RTP, it is. But the case of using the engine, it's more like "the more you know". As someone who already rewriting almost the entire script of RGSS3 up to the point that I just only need the script editor part of VXA itself, and not their database system, I can see how in MV case it causes confusion because you can technically just use text editor to make a game without using MV editor at all. In VXAce case, you couldn't because the scripts are encrypted, and it uses encrypted dll as well. You need to open VXA editor to edit the code so there was never been an issue, but MV is different. It's normal for people to ask what is the exact borderline.
 

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From a JS dev point of view I don't understand the need to know this other than the fact that people want to use the RTP assets. If you plan on making a game in RPG Maker but you modify it so much to the point where you don't even need it anymore or you just barely need it then why bother with RPG Maker at all?

If I'm going to make a card game or any type of game where I believe is pointless for MV other than the fact I can use assets they provide then it's clear my intentions are not in the right place. To me it's easy to see what is right and not right when it comes to MV's license and it's as simple as asking yourself 2 questions.

1. Will I use MV editor, code and assets
2. Will the assets provided only be in my game

If you answer no to any of those then you are not following the terms of use, if you answer yes to both then you're good to go. At least to me it's this easy, if I happen to answer no then I'm already either creating my own assets, hiring someone or looking on the web for free assets.
 

bgillisp

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Exact line, I can see yes. But we already got an answer of if you make it in the engine and it requires the engine to run years ago if I recall. Do we need more than that honestly?
 

Touchfuzzy

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It's really really simple: Is this being used as part of an RPG Maker game? If yes, then you are good. If you are using the RPG Maker game as an excuse to do something else, it is no longer an RPG Maker game.

There are a few exceptions, such as you can use it in the marketing material for an RPG Maker game. Basically you can show it in the marketing art and trailer etc, but that is the only real exception for the RTP usage EULA.
 

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