What happened to animations in MZ?

arkazal

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I come from the RPG Maker XP days where you could like... I dunno, actually create an animation. It's hard to even explain it because it was so basic, but you could like... actually add particle effects at different frame timings and... create an animation.

...what happened? I mean, RPG Maker has come so far and so much has been improved so much since the old days... HOW did this section of it go SO far backwards? I literally can't change anything about the length of an animation anymore. I simply want to make an animation (which I can't even change anything about because it's a gif now or something?) pause a little after its finished so that when a double attack weapon attacks twice, it doesn't go off in like 1/4 of a second. How can I do this? There's no way for me to change... well, anything about the animation, aside from adding a sound effect or flash effect. And even that doesn't seem to take if it goes outside of the length of the gif animation. I used to be able to add an effect at a certain frame that nobody would see just so the animation would extend to that frame. Now that doesn't work anymore, meaning... I really have no control over any of this, save some sounds and lighting effects.

Has this system really been regressed so far backwards since the XP days? The whole point, the very thing that makes RPG Maker programs fun, is that we don't have to be professionals and have special tools in order to create our own games. I wouldn't know the first thing about making a gif, man. I don't have that kind of knowledge, nor the type of program necessary to do that. The whole point used to be that I didn't need to have special outside programs; I could just load up RPG Maker and start making a game, albeit simple. But I could still do it. This is just... wow.
 

MushroomCake28

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Animations in MZ are actually a big setup. It doesn't rely on the old system from XP to MV, it introduces a new particle animation system using Effekseer. If you want to create your own animations, you have to do it in Effekseer. There are huge benefits like the quality of animations, true 60 fps, more complex animations, etc.
 

arkazal

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Yeah, see, I don't even know what "Effeseer" is, is it some program? How would I know to download this?

This really bums me out. I put a decent amount of time setting this game up in MZ, because it's the newest one and has a natural side-view battle, but this is just a game killer. I literally can't do anything unless I spend insane amounts of time on it now, I guess, and like I said, the fun thing about RPG Maker for so many people is not having to do that, and yet still having the power to do something decent. This is a heartbreaking change and it makes me glad I'm just trying MZ out. I guess I'll move to MV, but having to go track down a bunch of insane scripts just to get a side-view battle system isn't enticing either.

I mean this is literally akin to removing the event scripting system and telling everyone "Just learn RGSS/JavaScript! Sure it's more work, but it's *better*." Yeah we get that, but the fun of it was that we didn't have to learn a complex system, it was all inside the editor. Isn't that the whole point? Making someone download and learn whole outside editing programs to do something that really isn't optional in the game (for reals guys, battle animations are... pretty important, you know?) isn't any different than dropping the event scripting system and expecting everyone to know coding. It kind of makes me wonder what I even need RPG Maker for.
 

MushroomCake28

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@arkazal Effekseer is not very hard to learn and can achieve much better results than the old system. Even people that can't draw can create completely original animations. The new animation system is mostly a very welcome change in the community. Personally I much prefer the new system since I rarely touched at the animation tabs before but it was too tedious (and I also can't draw, so I couldn't create original animations with original images).

Sure there are people that liked the old system, but there are ways to use the old animations in MZ with plugins (basically reading the datafile from MV, but the animation must still be created in MV).
 

estriole

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@arkazal Effekseer is not very hard to learn and can achieve much better results than the old system. Even people that can't draw can create completely original animations. The new animation system is mostly a very welcome change in the community. Personally I much prefer the new system since I rarely touched at the animation tabs before but it was too tedious (and I also can't draw, so I couldn't create original animations with original images).

Sure there are people that liked the old system, but there are ways to use the old animations in MZ with plugins (basically reading the datafile from MV, but the animation must still be created in MV).
i still think they should make it 'optional' though... like two different animation tab... one using efekseer and one using good old animation system... :D.
 

arkazal

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Sorry about the double post, thanks for the merge.

Anyway, if it's gone, it's gone, and I'll just attempt to move everything over to MV. I understand what you're saying MushroomCake, I just don't think you understand what I'm saying. The point is not that someone thinks it's "easy" to learn ___. There are a crapton of people out there who will tell you that learning RGSS or Javascript is easy, and they will mean it, because they really think so. There's always someone that thinks it's easy. The point is that we didn't have to do that with RPG Maker. As it is, I had never heard of this program you'd mentioned. When a program that's basically a necessity to use RPG Maker has to be discovered separately, has to be learned separately, has to be used separately, it defeats the big purpose of RPG Maker, which is that if we could do all this stuff already, we would. If I could code, I would. If I could design animations, I would. Etc. I can't. I've never heard of Effekseer, and if I had legally bought RPG Maker I still wouldn't even know it exists. There's a big problem with that. It used to be that you bought RPG Maker, opened it up, and had everything you needed to make a game, except maybe friggin Paint, and you didn't even NEED that.

So yeah, I get that you like it because you think it's easy, and that's just not my point. But since it's gone, there's no more use in this and you can close the thread, with my thanks for confirming that I'm not just missing something. I'll go to MV and try to deal with the insane Yanfly battle scripts, as I'd really like an ATB system of some kind (and appreciated one had finally been included again).
 

Weremole

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You can make animations in MV and use the packed in plugin (KADOKAWA,RPGMaker MZ, dlc) to play them in MZ.
 

Eliaquim

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@arkazal totally agrees with you.
It ruins the RPG Maker phrase:
Simple enough for a child
Powerful Enough for a developer
A "child" now has to download and learn a third-party program to make animations...
Totally non-sense to remove the old animations features. At least keep them both.

Anyway, still, I think will be better for you, if you use the MZ version and get the MV animations to work on MZ with a plugin.
I believe it's less work than go back to MV and use a bunch of plugins to get your atb battle system.
 

arkazal

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Either way sounds like a lot of work, but you may be right in that importing animations from MV would be less work. At the moment, I've looked at Yanfly's plugins, and they're bewildering. I need a whole core plugin, and then several different battle system plugins...? I'm not even quite sure. And then undoubtedly there will be a plethora of things in the script I don't want and will need to disable. On the other hand, I have no idea what this animations plugin even is. Is it difficult to use? Where can I find it?

By the way, I don't want to make it sound like I'm not willing to do work. Of course I am. The fun thing about making the game is that it is work. I just want the time I spend working to go towards the things I want to work on - events, battles, balancing, etc. Not to beat a dead horse, but it's why I like RPG Maker; the idea behind it is that the hard stuff is done for me so I can spend my time working on the meat of it.
 

MushroomCake28

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I do agree with you guys. Although I'm more than welcoming to new improved systems, but it's always nice to have some legacy support by default for at least one generation (like include both animation system in MZ and remove the legacy in the next engine).
 

RK DracoRoy

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Seeing this really proved the point on how RPG Maker is to be user-friendly, and I see that's why MZ has the 1 GB Vram requirement. And you need things like Nvidia for better performance in your game.

It would have been best if they had provided in two options, introduce the new animation feature while keeping the same built-in editor with the png animations instead of forcing Effekseer in there that favors more experienced / power users. I had never heard of Effekseer until the time they announced MZ and showed off its features. At first, I was like this is nice but it seems a bit complicated. To me how they explained it, it came off as they were getting power users interested in this feature but I felt somewhat indifferent at the time mainly as I never heard of the program but I admitted it was nice.

Now here comes the part where I finally play MZ and try out Effekseer and after quite some time, I've only knew very few what to do with that program. What is this? What is that? And what do these really do? What happens to this animation or a single layer if I mess with these numbers? It does something I didn't think it'd actually do and I have to undo and maybe stop messing with the value.

Yeah, I got Nvidia for 4 GB Vram but what about my friends and other people out there that don't have that kind of power on their laptops and devices and I want them to play it and they say it's laggy with those animations playing? An RPG Maker shouldn't need that right there.

Right, Effekseer can do more than sprite sheet animations but it's got its own drawbacks like slowing down the game (even more noticeable on mobile or if you don't have Nvidia on your computer). Even if you're experienced with Effekseer, it can be a chore to change this layer if you want to edit existing animations.

You want to change this color? Cut a piece out of the animation? You can do your settings in the editor, tint screen with frames and there you go. Or for some who don't want to mess with hue settings (as that causes animation lag spike if you mess with hue), you can open up a program like Paint Tool Sai and do your color settings on the sheet, apply it, and you're good to go.

Now here comes Effekseer and I got to learn this. And what do I have to do?

I have to go down through these layers just to see is this animation in X layer. I have to see what's making this animation appear, and I have to either toggle it on / off, change the color, and do the same thing with some layers just to achieve what I want out of it. Some animations in MZ have a bunch of layers. It can drag on for the person who wants to edit the animation to their liking in battle.

That's just taking something meaningful out of the editor and putting in something that favors power users. And here's the result, some users don't know Effekseer very well. They may not have the patience or don't feel like putting in the effort to do them. It makes them less willing to even put up with doing animation edits or creating them like they did in MV.

Good for those that approve of Effekseer and know what to do with it, but not for those who have been getting used to the built-in animation editor in MV and have to go through a more tedious process to get MV's animations working.
 
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ImaginaryVillain

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While my opinions on the matter aren't a secret, and aren't really worth restating yet again. I will say one thing that amuses me. When I first showed up, I didn't know anything about programming or even really what a variable was beyond the most simple concept of it. MV really helped me figure all of that out by making it all much more simple.

However if you had dropped something like Effekseer in front of me at the same time.... Well, there's literally no way I would be here now. Imagine someone completely new and telling them, "Oh BTW I know you're confused about all of this, but here's an industrial grade particle animation program you need to learn too." I'd have just laughed and never got past the demo.

Just a shower thought if you will, I guess the timing was just right for me. Though I admit that even now, I have limited free time... And while Effekseer interests me, asking me to learn an industrial grade program makes me question if that should be Unity or Unreal (both have their own particle engines). That's two birds with one stone. Effekseer was such a weird decision for RM.
 

arkazal

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It's nice to see people agree.
 

mmiller9280

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I like that there's a lot of variety with what you can do with one animation (by changing it's X, Y, and Z, offset, size, etc), but I agree 100% that it was a really strange choice. I would have at least liked the option to use the older animation setup.
 

ShaneD85

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It really does seem like They've gone off track since xp.. They should know by now the majority of their users just want more easy customization of the menus and stats and battle system. and some professional tier assets. instead we get ..w/e the heck we got with mz lol.
 

Oscar92player

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I made a suggestion recently on the Feedback sub-forum to have the support from the community and the devs to add the tab to change between the traditional animations system, and the one from Effekseer, so user can actually use both of them on their projects.

I wonder why they didn't add this by default on the release, since you can use a simple plugin, plus copy and paste animations from the MV database to the MZ one.
 

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